mpls

Interesting topic, I usually fill up before warning lights come on. Today my low fuel warning light came on and I drove another 11 miles or so miles before I pulled into a BP station and filled up, it only took 54.3 litres. Is that normal, the display showed that i had around 22 miles left showing.. ? I

I can't agree that it has elements of Hyundai or Kia, I've always felt that Hyundai/Kia have always baen pinching design elements from Toyota for the past 3 generations of any models. That;s my view anyway. I liked the LF FC concept much better, but what theyve done with the production LS is growing on me, though wold liked to have seen more of the concept rear on the Prod..

The AWD option would be fantastic if it were an option here..

Sorry yes, you are right. apologies.. What I hate is people trying to do a hard sell on Tesla on a Lexus forum, I'm sure none of us go onto BMW/erc forum to do the same there.. This forum topic was meant to be gentle chat about possible future purchases, all makes consideed including even Tesla by some - fine., but not to be a technical/marketing sell on Tesla. If I was a Tesla fanboy, I'd go onto ta tesla Forum..

" Just because they say one thing now, doesn't mean they will not change their mind. Im 100% sure that Toyota said they wouldn't be doing plug in hybrids, yet the prius can be had in plug-in hybrid form " So if you say that, you are agreeing with me, you cannot determine future products based on their current marketing, otherwise you'd be able to predict what they have in R&D, and you know you cannot say anything for certainty, based even on what you have said yourself. Hence for you to say that Lexus hates EVs based on current ads,& marketing push is groundless don't you think ?

The same of marketing. You cannot tell or determine future company policy or future products based on it's current marketing. It's current marketing is to sell it's current range of Hybrid. It's claim is currently true wouldn't you say othewise it would fall foul of advertising standards.

That's marketing for you. When VW were making racist ads in the 70/80s, did you consider VW a racist company or did you see see it as just marketing against the onslaught of Japanese imports ? A better idea of Toyotas/Lexus stance would be from an executive, even then he wouldn't be letting on in terms of details of what they have behind the scenes, http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097815_lexus-bypassing-plug-in-hybrids-looking-at-fuel-cells-maybe-evs All i can say is, what is your agenda on this forum ?

Merc C250d is a 4 cylinder 2 litre diesel that gets arround 200bhp ( certainly not underpowered , maybe the auto box is rubbish) As mentoned the BMW 335d is a 3 litre diesel, how can someone compare th Just like AMG line, M-sport, S-line

Merc 4 pot diesels with auto certainly has one of the loudest kickdown noise on motorways.

I was going to say 50% ( this is true), but 80% is more practical for people ( in a leaf anyway). So buy a car with say 120-130 miles range but charge it to 50% for 60-65 range for longevity of battery.. hmmm... Autopilot ? Tesla is truing cars into an expensive appliance

Yes there are warranty terms on the Leaf, where it gurantees the number of active cells over 5 years. So you can have a variying number of actives cells ver that 5 year decaying at various rates depending on hot far you drive, how you charge it and how long youleave it between a drive. A situation can occurswhere someone who has a car coming up to 5 yar old actuvey wants his cells t die to a certain level so he can get his/her cr battery replaced under warranty, otherwise the active cells will drop to probably usuable usage hence less range ( needed for longer driving), though probably ideal still for daily short commutes.. The point I'm making is, why should drivers have to worry about their batteries in terms of how it they charged ( fast or trcike, 100% or 80%), how long car is left between drives, which basically points towards everythig relating to range anxiety.. Studies on Li-ion batteries show that charging to 80% prolongs life of battery over 100% charging, and that times periods of non usage also affects battery life. I'm not sure if Tesla have minimised all to acceptable levels or have had to put in more batteries cels/packs to compensate, or pushed to the limit.

I've been doing reearch on Nissan leaf forums to see peoples real life experiences. One thing that strikes me is lithium battery degredation, lost of cells) and also problems with charging to 100% ( apparently is like cycling 200 times to 50%), also what problems with charging to that level brings ( charging and leaving it to sit there without use also damages cells). The recommendation is to charge to 80% and use it, then when longer journeys are needed, charge to 100%. So eve with lonegr journeys on Nissan what is range 100-130miles ? I've not rrsearched for tesla, but if I apply Leaf experience to Tesla, would i not be worried, ?, are there not intrinscis limitation with Lit-Ion batteries in terms of contatnt cycling and cell degardation due to re-charging but also due to time itself.. I would not like to pay so much for a car where a large proportion of the car is made up of such batteries. Hence my point about Li-Ion not up to it for real mass deployent of EV.

Funny, for me I see the Merc, Audi etc in that light ( and especially the way most owners drie them).. not that i like all lexus, e.g. the CT isn't that good to look at or drive..

To be honest speaking with dealers isn't quite the definitive and clear cut truth. All dealers are franchises of some sort, and would not have access to such info straight from Toyota/Lexus, though for access to marketing and technical info in regards to current and very near future models, yes, I doubt even Toyota GB can comment about what Lexus HQ is planning. What we do know is that there are these rumours http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/toyota/aygo/97358/new-toyota-aygo-to-become-standalone-electric-car When Toyota first released the Prius back in 1997, i never would have thought Lexus would eventually put hybrid into its cars.. Whist I don't know the future for Lexus, I'm sure they will find their way..

Some samples, http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/130380-future-batteries-coming-soon-charge-in-seconds-last-months-and-power-over-the-air I still think Battery tech has to double in power density, or half its size , in adition to much improved charging times before mass adoption of EV in UK. Toyota has bee playing with Lithium Ion in prius since 2008, their last generation and current generation ofPrius is avaiabke with ug in option , hence with Lithium Ion. To say they've no idea about Lithium Ion is fallacy, they surely must know the pros and cons of Li-Ion. Back to the idea of the Li-Ion packs. How much does a Tesla S weigh, 2000kg +? how about for the new model 3 ? The simple fact is that it gets the supposed 300mile plus range due to the amount of battery attached to the car ( and thus size and weight of car), the GM Bolt has to design the battery packs for it to form part of the structure, in order for it to get their claimed range. As for Tesla, a company that seems to promote speed and acceleration in their models is both irresponsbible and crazy. I wouldn't be so bold like Musk with his arrogance, Does not Toyota/Lexus have the 2 litre Turbo petrol engine in the NX200t and IS200t, runs in both Oto and Atkinson cycle, what's to stop them bolting one onto a next gen hybrid system. ? My moneys on a mainstream manufacturer to succeed over Tesla. All I can say now is, Good luck with your Tesla purchase..

Back on topic, This is my 2nd Lexus, but my next car could be something like BMW especially the 330e, so in 2-3 years Lexus will need to have something compelling, a turbo petrol hybrid paired with normal gears ( if not the multistage system of the LC500)

Whilst the 400K of pre-orders is impressive, digging deeper, it seems Tesla has taken deposit money as working capital, a company that is barely making mney and has had so much government grants and investments. selling loads of cars more than other luxury manufacturers at a certain loss per car is not sustainable. The supposed saviour for them is the Gigafactory, this will be make or break for them. When it's complete, is lithium battery technology still the cutting edge ?? Musk is cutting this fine.. In certain aspects he can be applauded for bringing EV to the fore, but on the otherhand he has been too arrogant in his dismissal of other car manufacturers. http://thenextweb.com/insider/2016/04/21/400000-people-pre-ordered-tesla-model-3-now-wait-years/ My bet is that Tesla will not meet all the pre-orders and most orders will not come at USD35K ( will be more), the company will need to issue more stock or be taken over by a Chinese company.. and by 2019 most manufacturers with have their competeing products, better battery on the market rendering Lithium ION obsolete rendedering telsa just another manufacturer. This is how dismmisive I am of Tesla, (that is how Musk treated Toyota (when they parted ways after jointly worked on an EV RAV4.), and referring to Fuel Cell as Fool Cell. I have no idea if FC will also be oart if the future, I just think Toyota choose to publicise their FC efforts loudly as with Hyundai, whist privately also working on EV. I seriously think Toyota have something more up their sleeves.

Didn't like it when i first saw it, but actually the F sport version looks nice, also looking directly head on looks really mean abd aggressive.. Every manufacturer is doing th massive air intakes, thii new IS facelift is no more dangerous to pedestrians to many itehr makes who have more dangerous dangly frot bit bits or lippy front lower front bumper area, e.g. from Mercedes, Volvo, Audi and even BMW..

Though safety aspects are debatable, I'm more concerned with looks and symmetry, when i see other cars (makes) with twin reverse or fog lights, they look more complete and not as though there's a broken bulb. in addition with reverse lights i have mentioned in other threads that twin reverse lights gives some sort of light to absolute darkness when reversing, with current one it is extra care needed when reversing in dark amongst other cars/obstacles....

Range on EV has touched 300 miles true , but on the much bigger Tesla S by virtue of the fact that it is a bigger car and has room for more batteries. When the car the size of a golf hits 300 miles range (agin battery power density doubles) and costs half the 31K, is when mass market and is viable but only if chatgng takes tens of minutes too rather than overnight etc... Egolf range is UK 118 miles ( cost from 31K pounds) Tesla S range UK 303 miles ( cost from 53K pounds) now think about wipers, aircon/heater, entertainment, and realistic range drops, I'm not I'm not prepared to pay 31K for a car the size of a Golf with the range of 118.. and not being abe to go where where I want. The egolf is a half a bucket attempt at EV, but if VW can gurantee that if battery tech improves and they are willing to swap out the batteries free of charge, there will be takers...

When taxi drivers begin to take them on (just tlike the original prius) when we get 400+ mile ( UK miles) and charging times are tens of minutes, is when EV is ready for the mass market in UK, £30+K for an e-Golf that can only get me 120-140 miles, still with range anxiety and limited to routes where there coud be charging doesn't sound like fun at all to an average motorist. I cannot go whereever I want. That is my point, you cannot compare Norway with UK.

Out of your list Nissan, VAG, BMW, Merc, Tesla, GM, Ford Only Nissan and tesla are anywhere near with useable EV, but for both Range anxiety still exists esecially for the majority of drivers in UK and also where are the charging points around the country, are they readily accessable ?, hence my point about "one generation" away for EV re: battery technology. VAG, BMW, Merc, GM, Ford whatever they have now is not mass market and still use current Ge battery technology, and at what cost.. and still will have same range anziety as Nissan and Tesla, where are the charging points ? are the as prevailant as petrol stations ? I do not believe for one moment that Toyota/Lexus are behind with EV tech, they jusr haven;t released any products. rememebr they spend huge on R&D They are keeping on top of battery technology, and can strike on 2 fronts, pure EV or Hydrogen. This after all from a company that has used batteries in their many hybrids. They know their stuff,,,or they will buy it in... When we see battery tech that allows 400+ miles per charge and charged in tens of minutes rather than hours,( for a saloon sized car), that is when battery tech is ready.. I've recently read about 2 promisig areas of research... both lithium 'xxxxxx' , not the current litium Ion. When the Gigafactory finay opens, its tech will aleady be obsolete, hence I see tesla ging bust or being bought out.. No company that relys on customer desposit as working capital surivives. Those poor Tesla 3 depositers ! ..

Perhaps other countries can follow suit, i still think we are still one generation of battery tech away for it to be more of a policy in countries like UK, USA etc. What i have is a gripe with the forthcoming tax rule and London congestin charge ( though this does not affect me) in UK, lumping hybrids with diesels or petrol only cars. I think Toyota and Co. should lobby for fairer treament, in transtion to pure EV or Hydrogen..

Norway made all its money from Oil..

I wonder if this is true, a small SUV based on CT/Prius Under pinnings .. https://lexusenthusiast.com/2016/03/03/lexus-trademarks-ux-200-ux-250-ux-250h-in-europe/