Road Tax

[noby76]

Ok so my road tax runs out soon and my reminder came through. I dont usually read the whole reminder as I already know how much road tax to pay but got curious and noticed my car emits 256 g/km of CO2 which am guessing in a petrol car released today will work out at £460 a year as opposed to mine being £270 the difference being mine is an 02 plate. I usually hear people say diesel engines pollute far more than petrol engines of the same engine capacity or power. so decided to compare my IS300's road tax rate to a 2013 BMW 330d. and the BMW cost £100 to tax for the year were as mine cost £270 a year WTF?? I also came across this article below and was thinking if diesels emit more harmful gases compared to petrols then sure they should be paying thier fare share of road tax too. or is this the governments way of converting petrol heads like me to start considering a diesel since both gorvernment and car makers make a FAT margin if they flog you diesel at the pumps and show rooms than petrol?

someone please explain to me why I am paying more to drive on the same road as 'Joe' who owns the 2013 BMW 330d which apparantely emits more harmful gasses than me..

http://hanlonblog.dailymail.co.uk/2012/07/the-great-diesel-con-exposed.html

[petayV8]

I dont know much, but yesits my guess the government istrying to get us off petrols for there own benefit of course. To meet there stupid targets. Another way the government makes us live a life style they choose. A free country? My arse. Remember the koyoto agreement? Blame that. You are also right in saying even tho diesels are taxed less they are just as poluting, but in a different way. The government which includes europe doesnt recocnise this polution. Oxide to be exact. its all changing tho, diesels will soon have stricter guidelines but it may just mean they cost EVEN more to buy if the manufactures get the technology right. Ive got a page with some more info, ill try and find it

[noby76]

Free Country?? I agree since when was UK a free country? we have CCTV cameras than most countries in the world dont get me wrong am all for security but crime rate is still high when compared to say Sweden or Denmark , we are not allowed to design,build and paint houses as we please because it would not blend in with our neighbours homes, we all drive pretty much the same cars on the roads (well except Lexus drivers)and if you try to be a bit different you pay for it in taxes or the law wont even permit it in the first place so a democratic free country its certainly not. Back to road taxes your guess was as good as mine..the gorvernment is trying to steer all to drive Diesels.

Dont get me wrong I have nothing against Diesel cars is just that I am still not sold on it yet for the fact that modern diesel cars are known to be powerful but very very unreliable and parts like Turbo's, Clutch&Flywheel, Injectors, headgaskets etc are very expensive to replace if and when they go which they usually do. I always say, Naturally aspirated Petrol powered cars always wins in terms of reliability, running costs ,longevity and cleanliness with regards to environmental pollution than modern deisels but as confirmed the government will not recognise the Oxide which they emit to the environment but comes hard on petrol drivers for thier CO2 emissions. think about this, most European car manufactures have put so much R&D into diesel technology so it is a very smart move by European governments to lower road tax prices for diesel drivers which will push sales of thier cars up which translates into more revenue being generated by the country on the flip side your car will be sold to you because it was advertised as doing 50mpg but you end up paying £3000 more for it at the showrooms compared to a similar petrol powered car and 7pence more everytime you fill up a litre at the pumps this also translates to more revenue for the country. deep down they know petrol always wins and the only way to generate more revenue from petrol drivers is to bump up road tax to £460 a year if you emit 255g/km or more compared to a diesel car of the same engine size and power which emits more harmful deposits into the atmosphere but only pays £100 a year. as a petrol head maybe the US should be the place to be where i can drive my 2013 IS-F or Infiniti M37 without paying £500 a year just in road taxes. :-)

[wow300]

Makes me laugh, well angry actually, government charging more cause we pollute, like they care about pollution, I studied nuclear waste, and that is pollution that will destroy us, millions and millions of tons dumped at sea all over the world, polluting the the bloody food chain !! Hiroshima doesn't even register compared to what's dumped every year !

Greed is what it's all about !

[petayV8]

Free Country?? I agree since when was UK a free country? we have CCTV cameras than most countries in the world dont get me wrong am all for security but crime rate is still high when compared to say Sweden or Denmark , we are not allowed to design,build and paint houses as we please because it would not blend in with our neighbours homes, we all drive pretty much the same cars on the roads (well except Lexus drivers)and if you try to be a bit different you pay for it in taxes or the law wont even permit it in the first place so a democratic free country its certainly not. Back to road taxes your guess was as good as mine..the gorvernment is trying to steer all to drive Diesels.

Dont get me wrong I have nothing against Diesel cars is just that I am still not sold on it yet for the fact that modern diesel cars are known to be powerful but very very unreliable and parts like Turbo's, Clutch&Flywheel, Injectors, headgaskets etc are very expensive to replace if and when they go which they usually do. I always say, Naturally aspirated Petrol powered cars always wins in terms of reliability, running costs ,longevity and cleanliness with regards to environmental pollution than modern deisels but as confirmed the government will not recognise the Oxide which they emit to the environment but comes hard on petrol drivers for thier CO2 emissions. think about this, most European car manufactures have put so much R&D into diesel technology so it is a very smart move by European governments to lower road tax prices for diesel drivers which will push sales of thier cars up which translates into more revenue being generated by the country on the flip side your car will be sold to you because it was advertised as doing 50mpg but you end up paying £3000 more for it at the showrooms compared to a similar petrol powered car and 7pence more everytime you fill up a litre at the pumps this also translates to more revenue for the country. deep down they know petrol always wins and the only way to generate more revenue from petrol drivers is to bump up road tax to £460 a year if you emit 255g/km or more compared to a diesel car of the same engine size and power which emits more harmful deposits into the atmosphere but only pays £100 a year. as a petrol head maybe the US should be the place to be where i can drive my 2013 IS-F or Infiniti M37 without paying £500 a year just in road taxes. :-)

I dont really have anything against diesels, but there is too much hype over them. My next door neighbor has a A1 diesel and i know for a fact she only uses it to potter around town which defeats the object and its the same story for half of diesel owners because there is so much hype and pushing from the government, car journalists and dealers. Some cars dont even have a petrol option anymore! Kia Optima for example. What a great car that would of been mated to a silky smooth effortless V6. The only diesel ide love to own is a Cummins B5.9 Dodge Ram.

I think the evolution of hybrids is brilliant. Ide love to own a car that could use electric round town and in traffic and then a V6 or V8 that sips fuel on the motorway at low RPM, as thats the only thing there not great for. My 1.6 focus auto was much better suited round town than my IS, my IS is begging to be driven properly!

For me the US is exactly where i should be and am emigrating to California end of this year, its a demanding task to be a petrolhead in the anti car society in the UK. As the IS is such a well respected car over there (as it should be) and costs around the 10k i prob wont be able to afford one, but will be happy enough with a good ol american V8. A northstar would be nice, although the 3.8 Series SC was a great V6

[dave1]

Ok so my road tax runs out soon and my reminder came through. I dont usually read the whole reminder as I already know how much road tax to pay but got curious and noticed my car emits 256 g/km of CO2 which am guessing in a petrol car released today will work out at £460 a year as opposed to mine being £270 the difference being mine is an 02 plate. I usually hear people say diesel engines pollute far more than petrol engines of the same engine capacity or power. so decided to compare my IS300's road tax rate to a 2013 BMW 330d. and the BMW cost £100 to tax for the year were as mine cost £270 a year WTF?? I also came across this article below and was thinking if diesels emit more harmful gases compared to petrols then sure they should be paying thier fare share of road tax too. or is this the governments way of converting petrol heads like me to start considering a diesel since both gorvernment and car makers make a FAT margin if they flog you diesel at the pumps and show rooms than petrol?

someone please explain to me why I am paying more to drive on the same road as 'Joe' who owns the 2013 BMW 330d which apparantely emits more harmful gasses than me..

http://hanlonblog.dailymail.co.uk/2012/07/the-great-diesel-con-exposed.html

Firstly some 2013 330d are £120 pa tax which is still less than you I agree. The reason you are paying more is because that is how the government has decided to calculate tax figures! No matter what system of taxation governments use for road tax someone will always feel hard done by.

If they abolished road tax and levied an extra 0.5p/ltr on fuel it might be fairer......why should I pay the same road tax if I only do 3k miles annually as someone doing 30k miles annually? That would also ensure that people could A) not avoid paying it, B) would ensure that the taxation would be based on both road usage (mileage) and fuel efficiency/engine size/driving style, C) overseas drivers would also be contributing to our road tax system assuming they purchased fuel here.

My biggest gripe is not road tax but the fact that when it was introduced as the RFL (Road Fund Licence) it was designed to pay for the road network and its upkeep but is now just put into central coffers instead of being ringfenced for roads.

You state yourself that government makes a lot more money from taxation on the sale of new diesel cars so maybe that extra taxation might negate the lower road tax?

[noby76]

Cheers Dave I agree car owners should be taxed based on how often they use the roads so like you said if you drive more miles you pay more if you drive less miles you pay less but the question is how would the gorvernment police this without having to fit tracking devices to every ones car to monitor the actual mileage driven in a year? was in US summer last year and was told there is no such thing as road tax over there and i noticed they had a lot of toll charge roads which connects one motorway juntion to the other and you will only get charged a small bucks if and when you use those roads but apart from that my brother who lives there said there is nothing like road tax there so what are they doing right in thier system which negates them having to pay road tax compared to us here in UK. well i know thier GDP is higher than ours but they must be doing something right. a gallon of fuel there was $3.50 which is about £2.30. we really do have it bad here .. I dont blame you for making the move PetayV8

[dave1]

Cheers Dave I agree car owners should be taxed based on how often they use the roads so like you said if you drive more miles you pay more if you drive less miles you pay less but the question is how would the gorvernment police this without having to fit tracking devices to every ones car to monitor the actual mileage driven in a year?

As my post stated.....0.5p/ltr on fuel and abolish toad tax and each motorists outlay would then be DIRECTLY linked to the amount of fuel that they used, whether through high mileage or cars with bigger or less fuel efficient engines...........and none of these drivers who avoid road tax by one means or another, including using cars registered in Eastern European countries for 6 months at a time on UK roads. No need for any electronic devices.

[noby76]

makes sense to me .. care writing a letter to no 10 downing street with your proposal? as i think its a good fare system compared to this emissions nonsense..but your guess will be as good as mine.. they in no 10 wont budge.

[dave1]

makes sense to me .. care writing a letter to no 10 downing street with your proposal? as i think its a good fare system compared to this emissions nonsense..but your guess will be as good as mine.. they in no 10 wont budge.

Of course they won't....it's far too simple. Incidentally the cost of fuel in US is actually cheaper than your figures suggest since although your dollar/pound conversion figures are about right, you have forgotten to allow for the fact that a US gallon is considerably more than a UK gallon 1 US gallon equates to around 0.832 UK gallons.

[noby76]

WOW no wonder those guys dont watch mpg and drive 7 litre cars and stuff

[graham8370]

US gallon less than imperial, I think.

[bluenose1940]

10 US Gallons is approximately 8 UK Gallons give or take a spoonful

[graham8370]

So that would make the UK gallon bigger.

[dave1]

So that would make the UK gallon bigger.

Yes, around 20%......sorry, I put it arse about face.

[petayV8]

Fuel maybe cheaper in the US when converting it from pounds but a $100 there will go as far £100 here.

There fuel is around $4.1 regular a gallon and $4.3 for premium which is 95 ron. So to fill up your 75 litre (19US Gallons) IS200 in the US with premium (95ron) would cost you $81 which is the equiv of £81 if your living and working there. Not that much cheaper is it folks. Its a bit of a myth that fuel is cheap in the US.

[noby76]

Fuel maybe cheaper in the US when converting it from pounds but a $100 there will go as far £100 here.

There fuel is around $4.1 regular a gallon and $4.3 for premium which is 95 ron. So to fill up your 75 litre (19US Gallons) IS200 in the US with premium (95ron) would cost you $81 which is the equiv of £81 if your living and working there. Not that much cheaper is it folks. Its a bit of a myth that fuel is cheap in the US.

They seem to still get away with driving 3 - 6litre V6 and V8 engines like the way we drive 4 pots here infact V6 engines are soo common there is an equivalent to our 4 cylinders here. they do drive 4 cylinder engines aswell but its not common and most of the time its either a 1.8 or 2 litre so how are they getting away with driving such large capacity engines if fuel is about the same when compared to us here?

[graham8370]

Fuel maybe cheaper in the US when converting it from pounds but a $100 there will go as far £100 here.

There fuel is around $4.1 regular a gallon and $4.3 for premium which is 95 ron. So to fill up your 75 litre (19US Gallons) IS200 in the US with premium (95ron) would cost you $81 which is the equiv of £81 if your living and working there. Not that much cheaper is it folks. Its a bit of a myth that fuel is cheap in the US.

Taking into account that someone working in the UK being paid £30k would be earning $50k approx in the US for doing exactly the same job

If we convert our £'s to $'s, the equivalent of $81s worth of petrol would cost us £54 to buy the 75 litres.

To buy 75 litres in the UK costs us about £104.

That makes petrol very nearly half the price in the USA.

[petayV8]

Fuel maybe cheaper in the US when converting it from pounds but a $100 there will go as far £100 here.

There fuel is around $4.1 regular a gallon and $4.3 for premium which is 95 ron. So to fill up your 75 litre (19US Gallons) IS200 in the US with premium (95ron) would cost you $81 which is the equiv of £81 if your living and working there. Not that much cheaper is it folks. Its a bit of a myth that fuel is cheap in the US.

Taking into account that someone working in the UK being paid £30k would be earning $50k approx in the US for doing exactly the same job

If we convert our £'s to $'s, the equivalent of $81s worth of petrol would cost us £54 to buy the 75 litres.

To buy 75 litres in the UK costs us about £104.

That makes petrol very nearly half the price in the USA.

This maybe true. Im not sure about minimum wage and such in the US compared to here.... But i was thinking that it would be the same? i also didnt calculate how much it would cost to full up 75L here, ive never filled my IS up from empty, £104 you are quite right

[Lexmanic]

The excuse for retaining the road tax system was that it allowed the authorities via the post office clerk to check that you had a valid MOT & Insurance.

Now with the advent of new technology this no longer applies as your details can be checked electronically & instantly via the camera. Therefore your suggestion that road tax be abolished for a levy on petrol should now be much more feasible to introduce. As you say it would be a much fairer system in that EVERYONE would contribute to the use of our roads, including visitors. Also as a fixed amount of any fuel purchased it would be much easier to collect AND it would reduce the number of people needed to administer it

IMHO