ISF ML audio - Can it be upgraded?

[smifffy]

Hi all. 

I'm seriously considering buying a 2012 ISF tomorrow. I did the test drive today - loved it everything about it shouted quality and a product I could really grow to love. I checked it had DAB and Bluetooth streaming - tick. 

I was millimetres away from signing on the spot and then my wife turned the stereo on... Retreat! 

What an awful sound. 

After all the hype of ML systems I was excruciatingly disappointed. My last system was the 850w Bowers and Wilkins in a Jaguar. The ML system is like a non league team playing the Premiership Champions. There's no comparison. 

So - I'd be happy to go ahead with the ISF if I knew there's a specialist or known upgrade route to get this sorted?

Would be grateful for any help? 

Cheers

[steveledzep]

I rarely listen to music in the car.....I wouldn't listen if I had an ISF.....the exhaust note would be my top of the pops 

[smifffy]

For sure - the noise is amazing. But - on a Sunday night commuting back down to London in February when it's slushy and dark.... Then you need amazing tunes to get you through.

Surely someone has been through the ML upgrade process?! 

[steveledzep]

I can't imagine what was so special about the B&W kit in the Jag ?

 

My previous IS250 saloon had the ML kit and my present IS250C has the 11 speaker set up.  Happy with both.

 

A car environment is probably the worst place to try to get true HiFi sound quality.  Lots of extraneous noise, especially your engine and exhaust !!!! 

 

I'm a bit of an audiophile at home, enjoying great music reproduction......music in the car will always be a compromise to me.

 

Can't imagine how to upgrade the ML kit in the context of music in a moving vehicle ???

 

I'd be interested to know what you do Andy ?  Just my two pennerth 

[smifffy]

The b&w system in the Jag was astonishing. It's one of those situations where I'll struggle to describe it in any way that's meaningful - but... 

It has great imaging. Sounds, voices and percussion are 'placed' - you can point your finger at them in the car. The sub is nicely integrated - it doesn't just thump, it's tuneful. It's also effortless. The ML system sounded brittle with degrading sound as it went louder. The centre speaker was overly pronounced - for stereo music, why have a centre speaker? (I turned off the surround in an attempt to improve the sound). 

I work in digital/Internet - currently for a global bank. Embarrassingly I have 3 home stereo systems of different levels & I love music - alongside cars it's one of the ways I escape from the usual madness of work. 

I guess as long as I find a decent installer I can work with them to get the sound I want - but the Internet and owner forums usually know how to solve these things ;) 

Looking at other forums my view isn't that unusual. 

Cheers

[steveledzep]

Maybe it's my view that's unusual Andy ??  Just me I suppose....don't attach a great deal of importance to absolute sound quality in the car.  At home.....that's a different matter !

 

Good luck in your quest, I'll follow the thread with interest.

[smifffy]

Thanks Steve. My wife wants me to buy another Jag so we're off to see one in the am. I was blown away by the ISF - so we'll see who wins in the morning and then I'll put the order in! 

Interestingly I also test drove a RCF carbon at the same time. Much preferred the ISF. Superbly accomplished & did the whole jekyll and hyde thing brilliantly. Thought the RCF promised a lot with the focused interior & hard ride - but never really delivered. I previously had a GT-R which did that job much better. Kudos to the ISF! 

[steveledzep]

Just a thought, did you fiddle with the EQ settings....or just switch it on ?

 

If I was able to purchase an ISF or RCF, I wouldn't mind if there was a hole in the dash where the stereo is supposed to be !!

[smifffy]

Yeah. Fiddled with eq, front/rear split, surround sound etc etc. I got it more to my liking - but not close to 'great'. My wife has a '07 Forrester that she loves to bits and will drive until it dies. For her to say the audio in her Subaru is better takes a lot... 

I know I'm lucky to have the choice - but the money was hard earned so I want to get it right! 

[smifffy]

So am now the very happy owner of a 2012 ISF. Silver with ivory leather interior. Just 13k miles on the clock - I'll soon fix that ;) 

Impressions so far are definitely in the honeymoon period - really chuffed. 

Will post pictures at some point. 

In the next few weeks I'll investigate options and outcomes for the sound system... 

Cheers

[Neil E]

It will be quite difficult to upgrade the ISF ML system. Choose a good installer and consider using the Beat-Sonic MVX-140L to integrate a high quality system with the existing ISF navigation and audio controls.

[smifffy]

Thanks Neil. I'm keen to keep the existing controls etc so the car feels authentic. 

There seem to be 2 issues so far for me. 

1) The centre speaker. Why is this active when surround sound is off and you're playing stereo music? Seems too pronounced and forward to me - ruins the imaging. 

2) The whole system is too bright, acoustically. Having detail in your sound is one thing, but the system feels uncomfortable for my ears. I have Naim and Tannoy in one of my home systems, so I 'get' forward sounding systems - the ML feels non linear with weird results on some tracks and simply too forward with most. 

I'll live with the car for a bit longer and get to know it before jumping in. 

[Neil E]

In my view, or should I say to my ears, the ML systems are better in the bigger and older cars than the smaller newer ones. Try an original LS400 or a 25 year old Soarer with Nakamichi kit and it's disappointing to hear how just how much Lexus haven't been pursuing perfection. If you need it to sound really good then I think it may be necessary to invest in a proper system and integrate it as far as possible. 

It's been done in the US but I haven't seen a UK ISF converted yet, perhaps someone has. Most owners seem to be content to listen to the exhaust and indeed be obsessed with the notes produced by it yet it's rare to find one with headers.

For the integration piece, Beat-sonic are very helpful, it's worth checking details with them as the loom for a European car maybe slightly different to a US car. 

Out of interest, do B and W actually produce any car hifi or do their engineers just help/advise BMW, Jaguar, Volvo etc much like ML might for Lexus?