Child Tax Credit-or-why Stupidity Is Rampant

[terdancam]

Well further to a recent rant on the incredible bureacratic wastage in administering the Child tax credit system, we`ve yet again lost out by being middle britain.

Suffice to say our married income is now 12600, as just my wife is working whilst i study( ).

But because the credit is based on retrospective income, but paid on future earnings, and because its so damned difficult to understand, we have essentially been previoulsy overpaid. Therefore this money is to be recovered from our future payments, and thus now that we have half the income, we`re actually now getting less credit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apparently this is completely the opposite to the initial intent, and has affected LOTS of families but of course there is absolutely s*d all we can do about it, even though we voted against them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why is this system so, so complicated. What was wrong with married with kids tax code? How simple was that in comparison?

I have lost ALL faith in the governance of this country, but theres nothing i can do about it. And yes, we do intend to emigrate, but nobody is buying our house :tsktsk:

[jaylist]

Ah, you had the temeritty to get married. The Labour government frowns on those who get married, better to have child as a single parent.

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The bias in the tax and benefit system in favour of lone-parent families is such that some married parents end up having to work much harder than lone parents. The working families tax credit (WFTC), which replaced family credit in 1999, has made it possible for a lone mother caring for one small child to rise above the poverty line by working 16 hours per week at the minimum wage. This is certainly good for the mother and her child. But the same tax and benefit system requires a married mother and father caring for one small child to work no fewer than 60 hours between them at the minimum wage in order to enjoy a similar standard of living. This bias should be of concern to people who want to support all families living in poverty, and to all those uneasy about the recent trend away from marriage as the basis of family life.

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The Labour govermnet is essentially a tax and spend punitive administration.

The credits system is the most pernicious sort of welfare this country has ever seen. It is meant to help those on the lower income brackets, yet because it is a complex means test asks you to submit pagees and pages of complex personal data . This is then re-calculated every time your income changes. Hence it costs more to administer than any other form of welfare. And it is regressive. Those on the lowest incomes don't neccesarily benefit the most, it is those on the higher end of the lower income brackets that gain the most.

And as you found out it is so complex that often it paid to little or to much, and ask you to re-pay it , even when your circumstances have deteriorated.

The simple and far more cost effective solution is to reduce the tax burden at the lower end, by raising the tax free income to a higher rate.

This requires much less adminstration and benefits those people on the lower scales more.

New Labour Stupidity.

Vote Conservative!

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Gordon Brown has created a tax credit and benefits system which is so complicated that it seems "alien" and "capricious" to its users, according to the Government's most senior adviser on welfare.

In the foreword to his final report, Sir Thomas Boyd-Carpenter, the outgoing chairman of the Social Security Advisory Committee, says that there is an "urgent need" for the welfare system to be simplified, even if that means some people losing out.

"Complexity... character-ises the entire benefits system, and the addition of tax credits, with different rules, merely makes the whole structure more opaque to its customers," he writes.

"There is an urgent need to accept the costs - and the occasional hard cases - that a radical simplification programme would require. The benefit would be a system comprehensible to its customers and manageable by its staff."

Sir Thomas has been chairman of the committee for nine years, overseeing both Labour and Conservative ministers.

In his final report, he gives a devastating indictment of Mr Brown's decision to turn many benefits into tax credits, administered by the Inland Revenue rather than the Department for Work and Pensions.

"The size, complexity and dispersion of the benefits system, and the blurring of the boundaries has led to a pervading sense of a loss of cohesion," he writes.

"The result is a system whose complexity risks appearing both alien and capricious to its customers."

[jaylist]

You are not alone in this post soviet welfare mis-state.

Tax credits scandal reveals Labour incompetence on a grand scale

Shadow Chancellor George Osborne has blamed Gordon Brown after figures showed that almost £2 billion of public money has been wrongly paid out under his complicated tax credit schemes.

Official statistics reveal that of the £13.5 billion distributed in child and working tax credits last year, £1.9 billion included overpayments which benefited 1.9 million claimants. Some 40,000 people received at least £5,000 more than they should have, while over 700,000 were underpaid a total of £464,000.

As the Government sought to blame the mess on unemployed people getting jobs, and computer problems, Mr Osborne said responsibility should be shouldered by Mr Brown.

The Conservative Shadow Chancellor declared: "This is Government incompetence on a grand scale. It is scandalous that a system meant to help people is causing so many problems. Many families will find it extremely hard to repay money sent to them in error."

Mr Osborne told conservatives.com: "Once again, Gordon Brown's obsessions with fiddling and complexity have backfired."

[terdancam]

its certainly not difficult to implement a basic, table form taxation that everybody can understand and identify where they are. Simplify, simplify, simplify=cost control and efficient!!!! :D :D

eg: everybody pays 50% tax on wages as a start point, then you subtract various simple percentage points depending on your status.

So to encourage family values etc etc etc you have 3 bands=married, cohabiting, single worth, in order, 3,2 and 1 per cent. This gets subtracted off 50%, so a married man pays 47% tax.

Next if you have one child this equals another 1% and so on, therefore 46%; this encourages chikdbirth rates for your pension ( :D ).

Next if you earn between 50-100k thats 10%, 40-50 thats 20% etc until you get to <10k.

If you earn less than 10k full time etc, you don`t pay tax.

And then essentially you can adjust the percentages to reflect other areas.

So a simple visit to yourtax.com, you would look up the tables and say i`m a married man, 2 kids, earning less than 30000 that is M23 tax code, so therefore i pay 25% tax or whatever the rate is decided at. Next year i`m a M33 'cos my wifes expecting so i pay 24%. The year after i get a 10k pay rise so i`m a M34 and pay etc etc etc.

So simple for the VAST MAJORITY. So effevtively you get bonus points for being happily married

You could also have percentage changers to reflect caring for others, huge savings, volunteer work (say an extra 5%!!), supporting multiple children and so on-----but all easily referenced.

I call it my +1 of simple taxation, and it will be coming out in an appropriate Dungeon Masters book :D :D :D

Anything has to be simpler than the current treacle we`re in

And before you start negatively criticising, work with the concept, see how it applies, and if something doesn`t work suggest something to fix it. Don`t do the usual---------------waaaaaaaaaaghhhhhhhhh :shutit: :tsktsk: :D :D

[baby_lexus]

Your gonna love this then.

My wife works for a well known high street bank. She gets one day two back to back applications for accounts etc.

1. A middle aged couple, kids left home after marriage, they both work, have a mortgage still etc. Have around £30k income combined...and want to put away £20k. This they have saved for ages, ages, and don't want to get it taxed over and over, by this stupid government.

2. Next appointment. 2 idiots, girl around 17 years old, 3 kids, one from another bloke, never worked in her life, loves benefit. Her new bloke, around 19, doesn't work, gets all the benefits also, and the 3rd kid is his. She comes with one proof of ID, a mobile phone bill for one month which is £260 !!!!

HOW ON EARTH CAN THEIR COMBINED BENEFIT COME CLOSE TO £30K ????

Everything they get, they spend every month. Nothing is saved at all, no pension, nothing. And yet, the couple in 1, are trying their best to save for their retirement.

This country is totalled screwed thanks to idiots in politics who come up with these means tested rubbish. What incentive do both of these twits have to go looking for work, when we pay for them anyway ???

[jaylist]

This country is totalled screwed    thanks to idiots in politics who come up with these means tested rubbish. What incentive do both of these twits have to go looking for work, when we pay for them anyway ???

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Yeah I can believe it. There was sign of the times in the tg'raph a couple of months ago, when a woman working in a welsh employment agency jacked in her job to claim more money in benefit!

If you are single mother you go to the top of the queue to get a house, the more kids the more priority and benefit you get.

How can they responsibly bring up the children? More often than not they can't. So you get more broken homes, disrupted children , more crime and more teenage pregnancies.

Also with the pensions means test credit, the mother with three kids and no savings will get more pension that the couple who have saved. It actually pays not to save under the current pensions system introduced by Gordon Brown.

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My method is simple. Eveyone gets free childcare/nursery vouchers. You don't get child benefits though.

So you have to work , and we give you the ability to work as the kids will be in a safe structured learning environment.

Also I would ensure that the first 12k you earned was tax free (by shuffling the bands around) . This ensures that those on the lowest incomes get the full amount of money, and not as the current case is that when a person works more than 15 hours a week at the minimum wage they get taxed.

A

[Rillo]

Let's face facts that thanks to this wonderful government who strive for "an equal and fair society" that if you :

- work hard

- dare to be successful

- play by the rules

- want to get married

- wait until you can afford kids

- save

- have a pension

- have a job

- buy a house

then you get mugged to pay for "an equal and fair society" that rewards

- scroungers

- pikeys

- illegal immigrants

- bogus asylum seekers

- criminals

- chavs

- idiots

- teenage mothers

Thank you Mr Blair

[lexus boy]

I dont agree with the system is terrible. Although jaylist why should anyone get tax free income. If everyone pays the same percentage surely this is a fairer system?

The more you earn the more tax you pa, but on same rate as everyone else...personally dont agree with more you earn higher PERCENTAGE you pay.

The german system is a very good system that seems to be working a bit better.

My idea, which i think is logical, is that if you dont work for over a year you dont get any dole money. The idea of childrens tax credit is a bit beyond me, no kids so not looked into it. But i do like idea of vouchers for carers.

[Dave-Ellen]

Going back to the original post about the overpayment. You can ask them to recover it at a lower rate (stress the hardship etc)

My understanding is they are obliged to lower the recovery amount in cases such as yours.

BTW my day job is dealing with Housing Benefit for councils which is somewhat enlightening.....

[terdancam]

Going back to the original post about the overpayment. You can ask them to recover it at a lower rate (stress the hardship etc)

My understanding is they are obliged to lower the recovery amount in cases such as yours.

BTW my day job is dealing with Housing Benefit for councils which is somewhat enlightening.....

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to be honest, i already begrudge spending so much wasted time and resources on the whole thing...........maybe thats how the modern form of government works, it just wears down your resistance until you can`t go on, like cancer.

And besides, they would still reclaim the full amount over a longer period, which just means more bureacracy and complication over a longer period!

To be honest its a rubbish system, and although i`m self-financing my thousands of pounds study and not working, all my cc are maxed out and we`re selling the house to pay for it-------------but i`m not claiming any benefits!!!!!!!!!

But wheres the help for my familys betterment?

Sometimes i wish i was a sponging, useless chav :duh: :duh: :duh:

but i don`t want to be a mongrel for any part of my life and unfortunately you only get one shot at this existence-----and time is very very linear!