Please Help - Diy Repairs Hit Problems

[Adam101]

Buggering buggerheads. Was finally forced into sorting the power steering leak on my 1992 LS400 when the alternator died on me at the weekend. Got the rebuild kit, new bearing, air control valve, alternator and belt on the way over from the states and I started pulling the thing to bits on sunday. It's not going well though!

I have always done DIY maintenance on all my vehicles, built a few engines, restored a couple of cars, so I have a big toolkit and a reasonable idea how to use it . . . but I have been working for about 12 hours now (8 hours solid today) trying to get one of the bloody bolts off that hold the power steering pump on. It's the lower one of the two at the rear of the pump.

Despite being soaked in PS fluid for around the last year or so, and being regularly soaked in penetrating oil for the last 48 hours, the upper one of these two bolts took over 160lb/ft of torque to shift (I was using a big torque wrench in "reverse" mode, it's my longest lever). Couldn't get the torque wrench on the lower one so I have been working on it using a normal ratchet, a variety of breaker bars, U-J's etc, and a bunch of GOOD 6-point walldrive sockets. Despite that, the bolt is still stuck fast, and is rapidly turning into a blob rather than a bolt. I managed to sneak a camera down there and take a look at it (see attached pics). I think the problem is the angle of the fastening,its pointing down towards the inner wing and the floor making it very hard to keep the socket hard onto the bolt head. Especially with the amount of torque involved, the socket just wants to twist off the bolt head all the time, and adding a UJ makes it even worse as the UJ keep trying to wrap itself up.

I can't even grind the bolt head off, as (a) there is not enough room to get a grinder in there, and (B ) the pump needs to slide forwards to come off a long stud at the front of the engine, and this bolt goes in from the side, so it would still pin it in place even with the head off. Totally stuck now, I have unbolted the alternator (and a whole bunch of stuff from the inner wing including the abs module) to give myself room to work, but I can't get the alternator all the way out because the PS pump is in the way. So I can't even change the new alternator in and live with the leaky PS pump (although that would be a pretty dumb thing to do anyway).

The other thing I thought of was stripping the PS pump in situ, but the other bolt you can see in the pictures (the lower one of the 3 longitudinal bolts that holds the pump housing to the rear bracket) is also very tight, and almost impossible to get to. I can't get a socket and ratchet on there because there is not enough clearance before I hit the exhaust manifold (or some other lump of metal down there) and a ring spanner will fit but there is no way I can get enough leverage on it to undo it. It's very awkward because the bolt is recessed into some bracing webs on the pump casting.

What the hell do I do now? I desperately need to get this fixed as it's my only vehicle, even if I sold everything else I owned I wouldn't be able to get the money to trailer it to a Lexus dealer (40 miles away) and have them do it, so I have no choice but to do it myself, however I am all out of ideas at this point! Can anyone suggest anything, or let me know exactly what tool combination they have used to get this bolt out?

[MacRS200]

Don't suppose you can fit an impact driver down there with room to swing a hammer?

Edit : Can you get access from below if you put the car up on ramps?

[chips229]

If you dont find much help on here try posting on the USA forum..

I didnt have any problems with my P/S so didnt work on it,cant help sorry

Good luck with sorting it out...

[Tony-Bones]

obviously room related but in the past i have used a scissor jack and opened it against the cracking bar.... this denies the socket the ability to come off the bolt.

[cleverdick]

Whereabouts in the South-East do you live?

I had this job done (new PS pump and alternator recon) at Westfield Motors in Rayleigh, Essex, an independent Toyota/Lexus specialist.

If you could somehow get the car there they might be able to offer a solution. Perhaps give them a call (ask for Ian - very helpful).

You may have some success by heating the bolt, possibly with an Antex Pipemaster or suchlike.

Good luck...

[MacRS200]

A bit of heat in the block may help as well that may expand the parent metal away from the bolt a bit.

Whatever you don't grind the bolt head off you will be left with nothing to grip then

Also telling off time, don't do that to a torque wrench :o

[Steve ( West Mids )]

Could you get a smaller version of these in?

http://images-p.qvc.com/is/image/uk/5/46/517346.001?

They are very good, need little movement and will grip on round pipes !! It's called a "Super Wrench" if you want to try a search.

[simontaylor]

When I did my EGR pipe (MkIII) I had access problems. I too feared for the rounding off of the nut-heads for a 10 year old car, so I purchased a 6 sided socket set in advance, under the theory that the ratchets sensitivity (intructions said 5 degrees) was a much smaller angle than one twelth of a 12 sided socket (30 degrees).

For 1 of the nut,s by the CAT, I ended up using a 6 inch rathet handle, which had a hole in the end of it, and I tied cord to that and LED the line up through the engine bay and gave it a big heave with a "T" handle (made from a torque whrench) [big Sorry to MacRS200]. It was ok and budged. Super wrench above has a hole in the end of the handle too, could be usefull?

Also, often after a nights sleep, things tend to work out better the next day with a fresh mind.

Ring a dealer and ask their advice, you could blame it on a third party mechanic who is in difficulty, and perhaps they will take pitty on you and your pride and joy.

Good Luck & Sleep well!

[moriwaki]

Try puting the other pump bolts near the stuck one back in !.....re torque these bolts and then try the stuck one....it can take any load off and help it come loose....worth a try.

[chris vince]

Try puting the other pump bolts near the stuck one back in !.....re torque these bolts and then try the stuck one....it can take any load off and help it come loose....worth a try.

Adam,

Just a thought, this may seem a silly question, but have you located the source of the leak?

My own '92 LS and both of the others I have repaired with power steering fluid leaks turned out to be a hardened and then split 'O' ring on the spigot of the PS fluid reservoir where it goes into the PS pump body, if may not even be split, they harden and flatten with repeated applications of engine heat and age, just enough to let hot fluid pass by as the pump then expands with heat build up.

If this is your problem, this is easily repaired without removing the pump body at all, but make sure you buy a proper 'O' ring from a hydraulics specialist not one fron a motor factor or DIY store, or you'll be back at square one in next to no time.

Regards,

Chris Vince

[davepruce]

Only slightly OT - Is there a tutorial that anyone knows of that shows how to change the 'O' ring? Or is it so easy that anyone can do it without one?

[Rob]

160ft/lbs! that is quite a lot for a small bolt, as the head is quite hamaged already i would spend some time getting a proper solution before the head becomes unusable, as suggested already put the other bolts back in, and if possible run the engine to get the block hot - as it is aluminium it will expand faster than the steel bolt - be careful if using a blow torch - dont keep it in one place too long or u may damage the block.

good to see you are using 6 point sockets also. other option is to use a nut extractor - similar to a screw extractor but for nuts only - it is a socket with deep reverse threads cut inside.

[Robin H]

if you don't need the bolt again or it can be replaced

try welding an old socket on to it, if you can get in there

let it cool the attach your rachet to it

I've done this before when i've had similar probs

but this has always been done on machinery that I've had to service

my 2pence

hope you get it sorted

[chris vince]

Only slightly OT - Is there a tutorial that anyone knows of that shows how to change the 'O' ring? Or is it so easy that anyone can do it without one?

Dave,

This is a very easy repair, the time consuming part is getting access to the reservoir, you have to remove several covers and pieces that make our engines look so tidy.

Once you have accessed the pump the reservoir is held on by a single (I think 10mm) bolt, remove it and lift the pot off, not forgetting to suck as much fluid out before as possible, then put a rag underneath to catch any residue fluid (we don't want that entering the alternator).

The original 'O' ring will be clearly visible on the pot spigot (I can't remember the size, I recall around 8 -10mm), chances are it will break up as you try to remove it, they really do get very flattened and brittle.

The best advice as before, is to ensure you have a top quality replacement 'O' from a hydraulic specialist these are designed to work in the harsh environment of hot oil based fluids.

I may be wrong but I believe that LS's from Mk4's use a PS pump that has a redesigned fluid reservoir, perhaps Lexus became aware of this problem and have already designed it out, once again endorsing the Lexus ethos of excellence through improvement.

Good luck, regards,

Chris Vince

[davepruce]

Thanks for the info Chris - I will file it away for a slightly warmer weekend!!

[Noel]

Yes as said before abit of heat should help get if off.......but be prepared for it shearing off if you stick to brute force alone....

[MUDGUTS]

The only things I can suggest are:

(1) To do all the other bolts on this component up as tight as possible - then try to undo the most difficult one, this could give you the break you need, if there is tension on it.

(2) I would guess that PS fluid probably goes a bit sticky after a while and any heat from the engine over time will not help, I'm not sure that WD 40 or similar is the best thing to use, it may be the first thing that you think of but something more like easy-start or a really strong ethanol type cleaner may sneak in and break down the PS fluid that could be holding it in.

(3) One other thing to consider is tightening it up (or trying to) to get a bit of movement, putting a long rod like an extension bar on it and tapping, heat, etc.

(4) I have never tried this but was advised that on slippy nuts, etc. you can apply a bit of valve grinding paste to help the socket grip, rather than slip if it is oily.

Good luck.

[ROYT]

Pics. in w/shop manual show 3 fixing bolts and a nut.

Torque for the bolts is 29ft-lb [400kg-cm----39 N-m]

T for the nut 32 ft-lb [440 kg-cm----43 N-m

This is not very tight, is there corrosion on the removed bolts ? i.e rusted in or aluminium corroded to the bolt?

[simontaylor]

Adam, did you get this sorted ok, if so how?

I have a whining steering pump and need to decide what to do. Funny thing is, it only occurs when the car is cold.