Mirrors

[kev dood]

Wow, first post to this site, sorry to say hi in the middle of discussion, but wanted to ask....

....I take it that the output to the mirror will be linked into the one from the switch?

Just wondering as I guess they also use a current sense to know when to stop moving the mirror motors? If its not linked in to this signal then how will your circuit know the mirrors have stopped moving?

It sounds like a really useful project anyway.

Am gold today too and this is too new for me to cope with - boo hoo

[Steve]

hmmm... good point.. but someone pushed my mirror in slightly once and i had to flip the mirrors.. even though the one on the right was retracted it was fine. No damage

I guess this would be time set power source.. like the power source would be 3 seconds etc?/

I know jack all about electronics! ;)

All you would need is a trigger to the switch.. right?

[kev dood]

I presume it would be a similar setup to the electric windows. i.e. when the window or mirror is in a position where it can not move any further, the motor will draw more current.

A current sensing circuit will then sense this and shut down the motor. Thats how I would do it anyway!

If they used a timer, then if for some reason, maybe cold/ice, the window/mirror is slow at moving, then it would stop part way!

If the sense is the case, then may have to tap into wherever the signal runs from, could be the switch on the door - in which case all you have to do when you get an arm signal is to mimick this at the switch! (he says)

I could be wrong however - it has been known on more than one occasion!!

[tony_hetherington]

there was a post above about the current-sensing route to turn off the closure/opening. Problem is if (as you say) it needs more current for some reason (ice/friction/stone in way etc. etc.) then it would stop closing it but it will still be open.

(I think I understood that correctly, however, I do exclaim here and now that I know absolutely NOTHING about electronics, so feel free to correct me over and over again anyone!!!)

[kev dood]

I gotta get me a good piccie! :P

I would presume that the level for the current sensing would be set high enough to cope with this?

I may be harping on about nothing, as it was mentioned somewhere, that it may mimick the switch. In which case all shall be hunky dorey!

[Geoffers]

The mirrors don't use current sensing or timing - there's no need. They have very definate start and stop points. (Actually that's a lie, they do limit the current if it draws too much, but not to find the home positions)

They have a microsswitch - not disimilar to windscreen wiper point when you just flick the switch for a single wipe. All you need is to apply power for the circuit itself, and then signal the open/close for the mirrors. The mirrors shut off automatically when the switch point is hit.

I would have a timed circuit to shut the power off completely, but well after the time it takes the mirrors to close, only because I want absolutely no standby current drain.

[kev dood]

Its a good job someone knows what they are doing, can't wait to see the real thing.

Good luck, though sounds like you won't need it!

[snutten]

How is it going whith the project ?

[Geoffers]

Well, just come in for a warm up after spending hours looking for a neg. signal on alarm set. Fingers have stopped working. This weekend has been the only time I've had to try because of the bad weather. (And it's colder than you think after a while!)

The circuit is done, mirror cables, etc traced - only this flippin' signal now!

I may try another approach. I'm not sure yet, but the movement sensors housed in the light module may be positvely switched when the alarm is set - I could adapt the circuit if so.

Having my coffee then back off out there......

Thanks to those who are helping me trying to get diagrams.

[R1nG@]

Geoffers

This sounds great. Definatley interested if you pull it off - even more intrstd in window closure. Good job fella. :D

[Geoffers]

Watch this space...... coming very soon with the extra info I have.......

Full closure next ...........

[snutten]

waiting so bad for this project.

How is it going ?? :P

[DUNCAN]

Already tried this.

The factory alarm only gives out a +ve signal to the microwave sensor inside the dome light. Green wire.

This however doesn't carry enough current to trigger any kind of relay.

I also tried to trigger it off the drivers door motor, which has a white wire that goes +ve and stays +ve, when the doors are locked.Again, same problem,not enough current in the curcuit to trigger the relay.

GREAT IDEA if we can get it to work!...

PS: There must be a control unit somewhere for the windows, because only the drivers window can be externally operated via a window closer,the other switches are linked to the windows through an ecu.

[Geoffers]

Hit a few snags on the way the mirrors are wired - They are held neg until you press the switch which then puts a positive on the line. This is performed mechanically within the door so it means breaking into the lead and adding the required signals. (Or you would end up with overlaying pos over a neg)

Not a great problem electronically, except it is inside the drivers door which means a feed for the alarm trigger signal coming from behind the drivers kickplate and into the door. (Apart from feeding the wire, you must break past the vapour barrier then reseal it well)

FYI - the alarm neg. trigger is in the far top left of connector loom - green/silver spots. Be careful there are a few harnesses terminating there with the same coloured wire so make sure you meter it first.

Anyway, this is the only thing holding me back at the mo, but I haven't been able to get out there and play a bit more because of recent events absorbing all my time.

Should be back to normal next week.

Taking the feed from the pos of the sensor wouldn't be a problem - just use a transistor to increase the current. I didn't really want to take it off the door motor in case I hit a cirumstance where the mirrors will close when I lock the door internally while I'm driving or a similar situation. As I say the problem now is the wiring - it stays neg until positive is applied to close them. A simple relay on a timer will do but it's just the physicals now. (I say a timer because you must also provide motor power as well as sig and I wouldn't want to leave that applied also.)

[DUNCAN]

The two green wires coming out of the mirror switch work like a motor would. A pos. on one wire while putting a neg. on the other, then the other way round to fold it back out.

Maybe we need to open up the mirror switch, and solder onto the the button connection inside? this would eliminate any need for timers.

[Geoffers]

You are right - there is no need to a timer in the switching itself - it's a power thing. The only reason I wanted to put a timer on is to apply power to the loom when you switch the ignition off and set the alarm - then remove it a few seconds after the mirrors have closed. The timer wouldn't have anything to do with the opening and closing mechanism directly. (Other than activating the relay).

The circuit must apply power for at least some time after it has been triggered by the alarm activation. (As you are aware, the power is cut to the mirrors with the ignition off). The alarm activation trigger is a 5ms negative pulse.

The mirrors actually only need a single wire that is switched between neg and pos to open and close. Disconnect the green/silver spot wire coming from the door mirror switch and apply neg or pos on it - they will open and close. Simply put a relay on (crossover style) and that is it - but you must also supply power after the ignition is off and have a trigger device from the alarm - something that will lengthen the 5ms pulse. To do this you might as well have it shut all the power off when it's finished as the circuit (using a monostable) would do it anyway. That way there is no chance of any current drain.

Just my thoughts. The circuit itself isn't very complex and costs less than £20. The problem is just a physical one pulling the alarm trigger wire into the door.......

[Rob]

I know that this is going to sound really "gash" aka "bodge it n run" style but why not cut the vapour barrier and then reseal it with a decent tape? i know its not the best solution but we are not going to see it. I dont mind doing it on mine as i am out of the warranty period. In fact, we have plastic sheet and special sealant tape at work for use with vacums and composites so i could pull the whole barrier off and not worry as i can just make another! :P