Lexus 220d Or Should I Stick With Volvo?

[Yellowduck]

Anyone had experience driving both the Lexus IS 220D and a Volvo S60 SE D5 G/tronic?

Was impressed with the test drive in the 220d but after reading the comments on this forum, and the readers views on What Car? I am starting to have doubts.

The comments on the Volvo forums and the What Car? readers views seem to be much more possitive.

I am worried that after two Volvo's, after a few weeks of driving a 220D I may be dissapointed.

Any thoughts ???

Cheers

Undecided form Essex!

[Tango]

Anyone had experience driving both the Lexus IS 220D and a Volvo S60 SE D5 G/tronic?

Was impressed with the test drive in the 220d but after reading the comments on this forum, and the readers views on What Car? I am starting to have doubts.

The comments on the Volvo forums and the What Car? readers views seem to be much more possitive.

I am worried that after two Volvo's, after a few weeks of driving a 220D I may be dissapointed.

Any thoughts ???

Cheers

Undecided form Essex!

Had the Volvo as a hire car in Sweden recently....and have driven the 220D as courtesy cars. IMHO go with the Volvo, (or get an IS250).

[philthy]

Anyone had experience driving both the Lexus IS 220D and a Volvo S60 SE D5 G/tronic?

Was impressed with the test drive in the 220d but after reading the comments on this forum, and the readers views on What Car? I am starting to have doubts.

The comments on the Volvo forums and the What Car? readers views seem to be much more possitive.

I am worried that after two Volvo's, after a few weeks of driving a 220D I may be dissapointed.

Any thoughts ???

Cheers

Undecided form Essex!

Stick with the S60 for another year if you can and go for the new S60 when it's launched in 2009. There's noting wrong with Lexus, I'm just used to better level of service and customer care than I've experienced so far. The Volvos feel more solidly put together, yes they're a pain for blowing bulbs every five minutes, but that quirk isn't as worrying as a dodgy first gear that leaves your heart in your mouth every time you pull into a line fast moving traffic. If you're really bothered about fuel economy then again stick with the Volvo. Far better and Lexus don't do split fold rear seats.

[FinLex]

I can't believe what I'm reading! How can anyone consider S60 superior to 220d? S60 is seriously outdated, it's handling is terrible and, worst of all, Volvo's quality control has been really bad recently. The new S80 is a decent car, but I've already heard of several cases of S80 owners in serious problems with their cars, and by serious problems I mean that the car is utterly unusable, not just these niggles that most of us here are reporting on the 220d. At least two of these cases are not just rumours, since I've witnessed the problems myself! I hope the next S60 will be a different story.

I honestly can't see any reason to go with the S60 apart from if you really must have an auto box with a diesel.

[VrmmVrmm]

We've reached the stage now where the self fulfilling prophecy of the IS220D being discussed by a few owners with genuine rattles etc. Has turned into a mob shouting free Barabbas...some of the comments now appearing about the 220D are incredulous and we've only ourselves to blame!!! The vast majority of owners are pleased and some some cases very well pleased with any model they've purchased from the IS range petrol or diesel. Its a bit rich to see and read damming comment on any of these models from individuals who own BMW Audi Volvo etc etc and who may have driven a car from the Lexus stable for half an hour on a test drive or heard it over the 'grape vine that the 220D is a terrible car....get a life! I do however empathise with the genuine owner who fell foul of poor backup from their dealer and in some cases had the most annoying rattles whether it be a rear view mirror, a seat or a dashboard creaking when the AC would cause some expansion and contraction. But to compare a Volvo S60 was the 'straw that broke the camels back' it shows just how little some people understand about cars...they are not comparable. This is not to say that the Volvo is a poor car in any way ...its just not comparable with any model of the current IS range. Much has been said to talk down the IS...check out this forum and you'll find its approx 20 owners who have genuine well supported grievances to which they are entitled to comment on. The rest of the poor press comes from many many individuals with preconceived ideas (not facts). This in turn has the knock on effect that caused this discussion to become a topic..eg. After reading this forum I would really wonder I am I doing the right thing in buying a 220D???

Grow up...analyse this forum deeply and you'll discover that even the individuals with the genuine complaints acknowledge that the car is still a great piece of kit that is very well endowed with technology and for all its faults it is doing the job well.

I am lucky or am I?.. more owners need to comment, but remember when everything is honky dory you won't hear that at all?

36000 klms on the clock NO niggles 47 mpg IS220D Executive...someone's got to stand up for the car.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

VrmmVrmm - I still have mine...and it's going no where because I can't afford to chang just yet and it is still by far the best VFM car in this sector PERIOD. But it's forums like this which actually help people make the right choice...

All I say is go drive the cars - test drive each one for a full day and then decide....without the salesman distracting you! That way you buy with your eyes wide open...and you ignore any pressure from the forum. Use this forum as a guide only....

People generally speaking only buy diesels for economy/tax breaks. The IS220d only just barely hits that mark - and the comparisons about Lexus and Volvo above are I'm sure based purely on the ability of the Diesel. Having driven an XC70 D5SE (Estate AWD V70 Auto), I can truly state that the D5 is a very good engine. It might be an older design, but it seriously is a good engine. Yoy really cannot knock it...

The ride was naff, for an estate the boot was high and seemed small but the car was made extremely well and the seats were fantastic - very solid and I was impressed. My only other experience of a Volvo was in 1989 - a 245GLE - which was a brick on wheels, with brick like seats and bricks instead of a suspension. Volvo's have a come a long way....

OK - the Lexus 220d has a much cleaner (particulates etc) diesel engine, but it doesn't dliver on the economy front when compared to anything in this sector, and with Euro4 and 168grams of C02 it doesn't do much for your wallet from a company car Tax bill perspective.

If I had a time machine, I would go back and get an IS250 SE Auto with MLS. In the mainland UK it just makes so much sense. The extra refinement is worth any thing it might cost to run over an above a 220d.

Yellowduck - you're about to spend a shed load of cash. I would recoomend that you go for another drive and pay attention to the gearing, flatspots, the economy and the rear seat space - this time at least half a day in each of the 250Auto and 220d manual. Then you decide...whichever you go for - it'll be incredible value for money. But that becomes relative once you've had it for a while...

[Northern Boys Luv Gravy]

I have a mate who runs a large company fleet of user choosers. They monitor the fuel consumption of the cars on the fleet. Interestingly, the IS220d, the Audi A4 2.0tdi and the Mercedes 220d all run out at averages of between 38 and 39 mpg, with the BMW 320d turning in an average of 42mpg. These are real world figures over a long time so it seems the IS220d may not be far off the pace economywise after all.

[philthy]

Firstly I have experience of a wide range of cars and am trained to drive at high speed. I base my opinions on a lifetime of Volvo ownership and what I have experienced at the hands of Lexus so far. My opinion counts for everything in my opinion. I'm ecstatic that you're pleased with the car and Lexus, but accept facts, some people aren't and with bloody good reason. Those people have the right to offer their opinion. Prospective buyers have the right to the opinions of others in order to avoid wasting large sums of money. The aim is to arm interested buyers with all the information instead of just a heap of "my car's great" stories that lulls them into the false sense that all is well with Lexus and the IS220d. If I help just one person avoid the mistake I made, it'll be worth it. If someone buys one of these cars after reading all viewpoints then they have little cause to complain.

The S60 is a superior deisel to the IS220d. The comparrison is in engine. Read the original thread to see I clearly state the model on a whole is not comparable with the IS220d.

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=48539

[FinLex]

Firstly I have experience of a wide range of cars and am trained to drive at high speed. I base my opinions on a lifetime of Volvo ownership and what I have experienced at the hands of Lexus so far. My opinion counts for everything in my opinion. I'm ecstatic that you're pleased with the car and Lexus, but accept facts, some people aren't and with bloody good reason. Those people have the right to offer their opinion. Prospective buyers have the right to the opinions of others in order to avoid wasting large sums of money. The aim is to arm interested buyers with all the information instead of just a heap of "my car's great" stories that lulls them into the false sense that all is well with Lexus and the IS220d. If I help just one person avoid the mistake I made, it'll be worth it. If someone buys one of these cars after reading all viewpoints then they have little cause to complain.

The S60 is a superior deisel to the IS220d. The comparrison is in engine. Read the original thread to see I clearly state the model on a whole is not comparable with the IS220d.

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=48539

That's all fine by me. I have zero experience on the UK dealers, but I have owned both a S60 and a 220d. What comes to the cars themselves, IMHO 220d is better in every aspect except that it can't be had with an auto box. And that's something I don't care about.

[shake]

i haven't driven either of the cars,

after doing a quick research on both cars i'd go with the volvo. both cars have similar power (volvo185 +10hp - 0.2sec faster)

purely on this: volvo have more experience in diesel.

[digg]

I have owned many cars and each time I always choose a different brand. Prior to my is220d i had a volvo s60 t5. Nit quite the comparison you want.

I would say that on looks you can get very subjective - personally i would put the exteriors of each cars equal. And quite a few japanese cars are getting the is220 look.

Inside - well the dash on the lex beats the volvo hands down, especially when you have the toys fitted. The volvo always looked like it was made of bits and you could see the joins on the bits.

However the volvo is way more confotrable than the lex, in terms of cabin noise, seats (oh how i miss those volvo seats) and space. The s60 wins hands down on space. In that my wife could easily turn around and help the kids out in the back (picking up tous etc). In the lex, no way.

Also i really miss the volvos ability to fold flat the rear seats. And dont forget the volvo also lets you fold flat that front seat for extra long loads. In the volvo i never had to worry about going to ikea. in the lex itw always a 'will it fit' question.

The lex dash creaks a fair bit, never had that on the volvo. I know people say the lkex sound system is great (you can fit an ipod no worries) but i had the upgraded volvo sound system and it kicks the arse of the lex.

Reliability - well after 3 months of ownership my lex had the dreaded dielsel problem and was of the road for a month until the part became available. It broke down twice prior to this leaving the wife stranded on the motorway a couple of times. I will never go in the lex without a fully charged mobile. I never had an reliabaility issues with the volvo - i suppose thats what you get for buying an older car were he problems are itoned out.

There are reports of the lex dielsel suffering the same dreaded coking problems as the toyotas, search this forum for auto express and you will find the thread.

I have said this before, but out of all the brands I had, the volvo is the one i will be returning to.

[FinLex]

More comments that I can't help but wonder. S60 more silent than 220d? No way. Less dash creaks? Definitely not! More space? Well, maybe a bit more in the back. And the folding rear seats is something that would be nice to have, although I only had use for them about once a year.

I had a S60 2.4T back in the day when it was a relatively new model. Back then it was a very good car, but the handling dynamics vs. comfort wasn't exactly spot on. With the 17" wheels it was too bouncy, had too much torque steering and was way too loud (all big factors in Finland, the roads are extremely rough). So I downgraded to 16" wheels, which did the trick but also took the handling down a step. Since I couldn't find a balance between these factors, after about 18 months I traded the Volvo for an Audi A4 1.8T, that I had until I got the 220d in January 07. From these three, Audi and Lexus are equally impressive, and Volvo is quite a bit behind these. I didn't have any serious reliability issues with the S60 despite it being an early model (in fact, I had more trouble with my Audi), but to me it seems that Volvo's quality control has been going downhill since.

One thing that Volvo has going for it is the seats. There 220d comes second, I must admit. But all in all, the S60 is a bit of a relic: Not a bad car, but not up to the modern day standards, either.

[digg]

More comments that I can't help but wonder. S60 more silent than 220d? No way. Less dash creaks? Definitely not! More space? Well, maybe a bit more in the back. And the folding rear seats is something that would be nice to have, although I only had use for them about once a year.

I had a S60 2.4T back in the day when it was a relatively new model. Back then it was a very good car, but the handling dynamics vs. comfort wasn't exactly spot on. With the 17" wheels it was too bouncy, had too much torque steering and was way too loud (all big factors in Finland, the roads are extremely rough). So I downgraded to 16" wheels, which did the trick but also took the handling down a step. Since I couldn't find a balance between these factors, after about 18 months I traded the Volvo for an Audi A4 1.8T, that I had until I got the 220d in January 07. From these three, Audi and Lexus are equally impressive, and Volvo is quite a bit behind these. I didn't have any serious reliability issues with the S60 despite it being an early model (in fact, I had more trouble with my Audi), but to me it seems that Volvo's quality control has been going downhill since.

One thing that Volvo has going for it is the seats. There 220d comes second, I must admit. But all in all, the S60 is a bit of a relic: Not a bad car, but not up to the modern day standards, either.

i suppose that's different opinions. my experience has been that the volvo gave me a more refined and quieter ride than my IS. Your experience differs. But that doesn't give you the right to claim that your experience is more valid than mine. And my old t5 was on the skinny wheels. Maybe it ws the petrol that made it much more refined, but as i said, the dash never creaked in the volvo.

As to more space, its easily quantifiable that the volvo is bigger upfront, not just in the back. Look at headroom, this easily shows this.

[FinLex]

i suppose that's different opinions. my experience has been that the volvo gave me a more refined and quieter ride than my IS. Your experience differs. But that doesn't give you the right to claim that your experience is more valid than mine. And my old t5 was on the skinny wheels. Maybe it ws the petrol that made it much more refined, but as i said, the dash never creaked in the volvo.

As to more space, its easily quantifiable that the volvo is bigger upfront, not just in the back. Look at headroom, this easily shows this.

I'm not saying my experience is more valid than yours, mate. I don't have your experiences, so I can't compare them to mine. All I'm saying is that I'm having a hard time trying to recognize your points in my experiences from both cars. I had a petrol Volvo as well, and while the engine sound is different in the 220d, I don't find it any more irritating than with the Volvo. The Volvo was overall more noisy, so the creaks were a bit less intrusive than with the 220d, but still I located more creaks in the Volvo than I have in the 220d.

There is a good chance that our different views are a result of different circumstances. The Volvo didn't like really cold temperatures, which is a bit odd considering it's a Swedish design. When the weather got arctic, my Volvo creaked violently. Not so with the Lexus. Also, the rough roads here in Finland result in tire noise being the dominating component in overall noise. On smoother surfaces the engine and wind noise account for more of the experienced noise. This means that one car can be more silent on smooth surface and another on rough roads. I know you think that the roads aren't that good in the UK, either, but believe me when I say that they are in a completely different league than our so-called roads.

So, no hard feelings, digg. I'm sure there is a perfectly good reason why our experiences differ so much. I'm not saying your view is wrong, I'm just saying that it's not at all similar to mine.

[philthy]

Can't understand the quality issues with Volvo as here in the UK and in my long history they are well built and reliable. Maybe we have the reverse of your situation with Volvo and Lexus? My impression of Lexus is they are run by a bunch of Toyota staff who were suddenly told they now work for Lexus. Same mindset that they are only selling budget family cars to the working class who don't know any different and can be fobbed off with excuses. Some of that working class customer base have brains and standards and expect better when they hand over large sums of money. I don't care if someone has paid £5k or £80k for their car. They're the customer and should be treated with a bit of respect, not rolling eyes because they've dared to highlight yet another fault with the car. Lexus GB really should do an owner survey to get the full picture of how their dealerships are performing or I don't see them selling anymore than the 15,000 cars they sell each year in the UK. It'd be a shame because the cars aren't bad, (they're not as good as most of the opposition in my opinion), it's just the service and customer relations that let it down.

[Northern Boys Luv Gravy]

Can't understand the quality issues with Volvo as here in the UK and in my long history they are well built and reliable. Maybe we have the reverse of your situation with Volvo and Lexus? My impression of Lexus is they are run by a bunch of Toyota staff who were suddenly told they now work for Lexus. Same mindset that they are only selling budget family cars to the working class who don't know any different and can be fobbed off with excuses. Some of that working class customer base have brains and standards and expect better when they hand over large sums of money. I don't care if someone has paid £5k or £80k for their car. They're the customer and should be treated with a bit of respect, not rolling eyes because they've dared to highlight yet another fault with the car. Lexus GB really should do an owner survey to get the full picture of how their dealerships are performing or I don't see them selling anymore than the 15,000 cars they sell each year in the UK. It'd be a shame because the cars aren't bad, (they're not as good as most of the opposition in my opinion), it's just the service and customer relations that let it down.

I know you've had a bad experience with Lexus Leicester but I can't agree with any of the above. Toyota staff suddenly selling Lexus?? Lexus has been in the UK since 1990 - most of the dealership staff are either Lexus recruited or have come from other premium marques. Lexus cars are built on dedicated production lines by the best employees Toyota employ, they build cars to quality standards far in excess of Toyota's own high standards, using components that have to meet even higher quality standards.

Year after year, Lexus top all independent surveys of customer satisfaction and reliability - of course there will be some problems but you don't get that recognition from rolling your eyes and upseting customers. Lexus set the benchmarks for customer care that all other marques aspire to - Audi in particular, though privately they acknowledge they have a long way to go to match it. Year after year Lexus are also the top selling luxury marque in the US and those people really do know how to complain if things are not right!

Many of the things we take for granted when buying upper end cars were pioneered by Lexus, for example the layout of dealerships and the facilities within. Lexus also introduced no quibble exchange periods on secondhand cars and were the first to offer the same level of service to used car buyers that new buyers expect. As I said before I understand that you feel disappointed by your experience so far (although I don't know the whole story) but every day other people are disappointed by their BMW, Mercedes etc experience - it doesn't make them bad cars, or all their dealerships shoddy.

[philthy]

Can't understand the quality issues with Volvo as here in the UK and in my long history they are well built and reliable. Maybe we have the reverse of your situation with Volvo and Lexus? My impression of Lexus is they are run by a bunch of Toyota staff who were suddenly told they now work for Lexus. Same mindset that they are only selling budget family cars to the working class who don't know any different and can be fobbed off with excuses. Some of that working class customer base have brains and standards and expect better when they hand over large sums of money. I don't care if someone has paid £5k or £80k for their car. They're the customer and should be treated with a bit of respect, not rolling eyes because they've dared to highlight yet another fault with the car. Lexus GB really should do an owner survey to get the full picture of how their dealerships are performing or I don't see them selling anymore than the 15,000 cars they sell each year in the UK. It'd be a shame because the cars aren't bad, (they're not as good as most of the opposition in my opinion), it's just the service and customer relations that let it down.

I know you've had a bad experience with Lexus Leicester but I can't agree with any of the above. Toyota staff suddenly selling Lexus?? Lexus has been in the UK since 1990 - most of the dealership staff are either Lexus recruited or have come from other premium marques. Lexus cars are built on dedicated production lines by the best employees Toyota employ, they build cars to quality standards far in excess of Toyota's own high standards, using components that have to meet even higher quality standards.

Year after year, Lexus top all independent surveys of customer satisfaction and reliability - of course there will be some problems but you don't get that recognition from rolling your eyes and upseting customers. Lexus set the benchmarks for customer care that all other marques aspire to - Audi in particular, though privately they acknowledge they have a long way to go to match it. Year after year Lexus are also the top selling luxury marque in the US and those people really do know how to complain if things are not right!

Many of the things we take for granted when buying upper end cars were pioneered by Lexus, for example the layout of dealerships and the facilities within. Lexus also introduced no quibble exchange periods on secondhand cars and were the first to offer the same level of service to used car buyers that new buyers expect. As I said before I understand that you feel disappointed by your experience so far (although I don't know the whole story) but every day other people are disappointed by their BMW, Mercedes etc experience - it doesn't make them bad cars, or all their dealerships shoddy.

I totally agree with most of that. This is based on my experience with Lexus compared with other marques and is not intended to disparage Toyota owners. When I read the dealership reviews the common link I find is the franchise holder. No matter how good the car, if the dealership are woeful then that's the impression you're going to keep. Lexus are at the forefront of technology, but I don't want a Japanese gizmo. I want a quality car that is well put together with everything working as it should crafted from the best materiels. I want a car that gives a better than average performance too backed up by polite, respectful dealerships. It's the last bit that lets Lexus down and some of the switchgear.

I disagree with the American issue though. The majority of American cars are awful in terms of build quality, materiels and trim layout as the Pontiac Grand Prix I ran in the USA for a while will testify. Lexus would easily outshine anything America could offer, but then so would Skoda. The JD Power survey has been based on previous models and the early IS '05/06 IS range. My gut feeling is that Lexus are not going to fare so well in the latest evaluation from what customers are saying. The fact they sell so few cars in the UK may just be their saving grace.

[Northern Boys Luv Gravy]

I totally agree with most of that. This is based on my experience with Lexus compared with other marques and is not intended to disparage Toyota owners. When I read the dealership reviews the common link I find is the franchise holder. No matter how good the car, if the dealership are woeful then that's the impression you're going to keep. Lexus are at the forefront of technology, but I don't want a Japanese gizmo. I want a quality car that is well put together with everything working as it should crafted from the best materiels. I want a car that gives a better than average performance too backed up by polite, respectful dealerships. It's the last bit that lets Lexus down and some of the switchgear.

I disagree with the American issue though. The majority of American cars are awful in terms of build quality, materiels and trim layout as the Pontiac Grand Prix I ran in the USA for a while will testify. Lexus would easily outshine anything America could offer, but then so would Skoda. The JD Power survey has been based on previous models and the early IS '05/06 IS range. My gut feeling is that Lexus are not going to fare so well in the latest evaluation from what customers are saying. The fact they sell so few cars in the UK may just be their saving grace.

Yeah but in the US they are not just competing with Pontiac are they? BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Cadillac all had a head start on Lexus and heavy marketing spend, yet Lexus still outstripped them within 6 years of launch. Perception is everything and in the US German cars are seen as nice cars to drive but unreliable with dodgy electrics and expensive to fix (actually in Germany the are seen in a somewhat similar light as well).

I've owned and driven Audis, Volvos, Mercedes etc but if I had to pick one who I felt would run reliably to 200,000 miles I'd pick the Lexus above them all - mechanically it has that Swiss watch feel. If you look at every Lexus model since the original LS400 can you pick out anyone that has been unreliable? Look at secondhand guides - do any of them warn you about buying any particular Lexus model due to reliability? I'll save you the bother - they don't. No other manufacturer can make that claim, Mercedes E classes have been a disaster for that company, BMW diesels keep lunching their turbos or requiring whole engines replaced due to cylinder liner problems, Audis with their coil pack troubles, Volvos with gearboxes etc etc

[digg]

oh and follow me home lights. i couldnt believe that with all the gizmos the lex has (auto lights, auto wipers, rear cam etc). they dont have follow me home lights. this one was important to me as where i park up is pretty dark.

i guess for most people this feature is pretty trivial.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I love this thread...all I will say is that Lexus are very good, it appears to be the diesel model with all of it's issues that causes most debate.

Buy a 250 Auto and it's a proper Lexus...

Buy the 220d and it's not...as Tango said once, it's probably the car that Lexus should not have made...

Do I regret buying the IS220d? Yes - but not because I should have got a German car, but because I think I should have got the 250 Auto SE with MM - it is fantastic. And as many of you will know, I am not loyal to any brand. I only buy what is sound...I could have lived with all the rattles on a 250 (as I am doing now in the 220).

The American debate is an interesting one. In the USA, AUDI's, BMW and Mercs are all too expensive compared with Lexus. That's what I seem to recall when I looked at comparable prices 12 months ago. Lexus are just so cheap especially when you consider they are "loaded" to the gunnels, and remember - they don't have the diesel to complain about....and also US cars are so Vauxhall it's scary. We had a Sebring 2.2 Auto in the states and what a car. It was big, thirsty, but totally dead at the helm. And the bouncy ride...!

[Northern Boys Luv Gravy]

I love this thread...all I will say is that Lexus are very good, it appears to be the diesel model with all of it's issues that causes most debate.

Buy a 250 Auto and it's a proper Lexus...

Buy the 220d and it's not...as Tango said once, it's probably the car that Lexus should not have made...

Do I regret buying the IS220d? Yes - but not because I should have got a German car, but because I think I should have got the 250 Auto SE with MM - it is fantastic. And as many of you will know, I am not loyal to any brand. I only buy what is sound...I could have lived with all the rattles on a 250 (as I am doing now in the 220).

The American debate is an interesting one. In the USA, AUDI's, BMW and Mercs are all too expensive compared with Lexus. That's what I seem to recall when I looked at comparable prices 12 months ago. Lexus are just so cheap especially when you consider they are "loaded" to the gunnels, and remember - they don't have the diesel to complain about....and also US cars are so Vauxhall it's scary. We had a Sebring 2.2 Auto in the states and what a car. It was big, thirsty, but totally dead at the helm. And the bouncy ride...!

Lexus' are cheaper in the US, but then again so are BMWs and Mercedes. Check out the prices for fully loaded BMW 3 series with 3 litre engines, auto, four wheel drive and full leather, or even M3s. We pay a massive premium for the privilege of driving German cars when 320ds and A4 2.0Tdis have really become nothing more than fleet cars, replacing the Mondeo and Vectra.

[philthy]

I think that is fair comment Jambo. The deisel needed more development before it was launched. Hate to think what used prices are going to be like if the predictions that deisel prices are going to go through the roof in 2009 come true.

I've just taken mine to have a tow bar fitted and had to use some motorway and dual carriageway. The torque in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears is very good at the expense of any decent fuel economy and reminded of one reason I opted to buy one. The 250 must be amazing power. If only the human side of Lexus was right.

[Parthiban]

If only the human side of Lexus was right.

I don't know much about the 220d, but having been a Lexus owner for over 5 years, this is the part that I know for sure they have absolutely spot on. Sounds like you need to use a different dealership if you're not being treated well, even when I take my 5 year old IS200 into my dealer I get treated exactly the same as the guy who's just brought in his brand new LS - which is impeccably well.

It's a little unfair to apply one bad dealership right across Lexus as a brand, as customer service is the one area where they are unrivalled (and I've had several experiences with many different brands).

I can understand though that if you've been messed about a lot that you'd want to speak up about it and you're completely entitled to do so - I hope your Lexus ownership experience improves to what most people on here have enjoyed over many years :)

[philthy]

If only the human side of Lexus was right.

I don't know much about the 220d, but having been a Lexus owner for over 5 years, this is the part that I know for sure they have absolutely spot on. Sounds like you need to use a different dealership if you're not being treated well, even when I take my 5 year old IS200 into my dealer I get treated exactly the same as the guy who's just brought in his brand new LS - which is impeccably well.

It's a little unfair to apply one bad dealership right across Lexus as a brand, as customer service is the one area where they are unrivalled (and I've had several experiences with many different brands).

I can understand though that if you've been messed about a lot that you'd want to speak up about it and you're completely entitled to do so - I hope your Lexus ownership experience improves to what most people on here have enjoyed over many years :)

Unfortunately my dealership is a large franchise operating a number of Lexus dealerships around the UK who all seem to have some issues according to the review section. Travelling to Coventry just to use another official dealer is unrealistic and noneconomical. I've got an independant set to do all my work from now until I get shot of the car and say goodbye to Lexus in twelve months. To counter your comment that you know Lexus have got the people thing right; I know they haven't and they're a long way off.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I was seathing with Leicester when I took delivery. There were a catalogue of disasters with my dealings, and I een named and shamed individuals on here...

I had that thread taken off after speaking to the dealer Principal, and haven't had a single issue since. Everyone there knows me now, and I might have caused some trouble, but it worked (largely). It's NOT the way I like to do things, but I was really angry.

I would suggest:

Talk to the Principal - he is an excellent, comitted and focused man

Don't use a specialist - the car will be worth a lot less...