Is300 Or Bmw3 Series Compact?

[Parthiban]

thanks for backin me up UKPulse - at least someone else is good with their numbers!

[vince-com]

Now seriously, OK you'll have a better second hand value on a beemer, 100% ok especially down there in frog land, on the beemer 3 series or 5 series with diesel engines, 325D, 330D, 530D etc etc.

On a fuel one the second hand price drops a lot. You will always loose money selling your car (the one making profit explain me how). Checking insurance, fuel, accessories for something than 3 years and compare… Without talking about price inspection !!!! they're mad at BMW.

NOW going for a Lexus is something different from a Beemer choice, you will see a BMW at each corner street in Paris, a Lex not, a few days ago I was about to sell the Sport X, funny to see that people want one for a car that was sold in France for about 150 ex.

For example your M5, there's a few around here at second hand price really low, nobody want this marvellous 400 horse power to drive, really hard to found a good insurance rate. If you buy it new, you will surely loose a lot of money, even on a Munich sheep…The ones I'm talking about are around 100.000 kms, nothing for this sort of engine.

My office parking mate has a 525 with sat nav, and each time is asking more & more about the Sport X, a sign :)

Now assuming that Lexus as a short history an it's pushing hardly to offer high quality product at a good price, hummmmm I like the wana-bees of making things :)

[UKPulse]

Always happy to support the cause. BMW drivers seem to like taking a pop at Lexus.... then again, they seem to like taking a pop at anything that's not a BMW!

[vince-com]

Real man do it naked…

Hummmm will remove the Aprilia fairing so :)

Nice drawing.

[Sheepman]

When I posted this reply, it was to offer an opinion different to that offered here, one to balance the one sided view of this board because, someone who wanted some advice on spending their money....So, I shall add more by way of balance to the replies since I first posted on this board....

Buy a BMW for the challenge of buying the best proven balanced RWD car money can have, and if it is a 6 cylinder, buy it because you want to drive a German legend - buy a 3 series and you can always sell it on. Buy a 5 series and you are buying the best exec in its class - 7 years in a row...

I have never met anyone who has ever traded up a 3 series - even a poverty spec 316 for an IS200, get real for *** sake!!! IS300, I'll be honest and say I don't know. The LS430 is different and rather special, but for the cash I would expect it to be up there with the S mercedes (albeit the S430) And again, how many LS430's do you see on the road compared to S class mercedes? If it is your money, where would you put it, Mercedes or Lexus?

BMW 330 vs IS300. Give people the free choice and what do you think - that they would take Toyota/Lexus over BMW. Is Lexus your answer? - well think again. Of course they don't. Day after day, BMW sells more cars than Lexus could ever dream about. The Lexus IS200 in particular is an also-ran, when it first came out it was heralded as the poor mans 3 series, good, but not good enough.. Yes BMW is more expensive and yes, the options are very dear, but you pay your money and take your choice. I don't have my Lexus through choice, it is my company car and I put up with it but would take a 6 cylinder BMW every time. Why do so many company car drivers drive 318's as opposed to the IS200, it being such a good car??

No, as BMW drivers, we are not sheep, I am certainly not a sheep. I drive an IS200 for work and an M5 for pleasure .Incidentally, I bought the M5 simply because it is the most complete car I have ever driven and a perfect antidode to 30k every year in a Lexus

That's my view, challenge it if you like that's fine by me, but if you do, then please do so based on some firm grounding of reason, not on the emotion of my car is better than yours because that's just plain infantile.

Incidentally, and as an aside to this main post, when I drive my M5 people drive so differently, they pull out without indicating, they tailgate stupidly, they overtake on bends, they just have to get past. I know, because I have seen it, time and time again. When I drive my M5 I drive it like a motorbike and plan much futher ahead and drive very defensively - funnily enough, it is often these tacky little modified hatchbacks of the MaxPower genre who are the worst offenders at this. I don't even get bothered any more.

I await your no-dount strong anti BMW replies. Just trying to strike some form of a balance here :P

Sheepman

[UKPulse]

It stands to reason that if you ask the question "What's better, an XYZ or a Lexus" on a Lexus message board, then you're going to see a strong bias - after all, most of us here have chosen a Lexus in preference to other cars.

Having said that, I did try to avoid this "my car is better than your car" debate in my earlier reply simply by quoting published figures (and they do make interesting reading). The fact is, I don't slag off BMWs and if you take the time to search this forum, you'll see. I regularly travel 110 miles a day with a work colleague in his 325i SE. I have remarked before that this is a very nicely built and quite handsome car that goes really well (it'll out pace my IS300 any day). The only fly in the ointment is that he honestly believes his car is exclusive, but I don't happen to agree. We pass countless other BMWs on the motorway, and park next to countless other BMWs in the car park.

The truth is that most modern cars are manufactured to perform way in excess of most drivers abilities - I have been round Brands Hatch in a bog standard BMW 318i being driven by a professional driver, and I was utterly amazed at what the car could do in the right hands (and with no traffic coming the other way)!!

So given that most of us can never really exploit our cars true potential, the decision as to what to buy doesn't always have to lie in the testosterone-zone. In some cases it might just boil down to wanting to buy a car that isn't quite so ubiquitous.

There is no doubt that BMW make very good cars (despite the stigma they seem to carry), but take any aspect of the car, and someone will quote you a different car that does it better, be it top speed, acceleration, ride, handling, value for money, etc., it just depends what you're after.

There is also no doubt also, that Lexus have earned a reputation for building a high quality product, that has strong residuals, backed up by excellent reliability and great dealers, something the JD Powers survey has demonstrated on both sides of the atlantic.

You talk about choice... Well at the end of the day, all I can say is thank goodness we all have a choice! Now, in the spirit of peace & friendship, why not pop along to the next Lexus meet and give us a ride in your M5 - I for one would probably enjoy it :)

[Parthiban]

with what you said about BMW selling more cars than Lexus could imagine, couldn't be further from the truth.

In the US (world's biggest market), lexus outsold bmw (even with their smaller range of vehicles)

now i agree that the 3-series saloon is the finest handling small saloon (but definitely not the 316 or 318, they're awful) but we're talking about the compact which is nowhere near as inspired a drive

the M5 is a fantastic car and even i wouldn't not buy that just to avoid a bmw, i definitely would buy it

but the IS is very very good and normal driving will not bring out the reasons why the 3-series is a better handler

the 3-series doesn't even look that special anymore, far too plain and uninspired

the IS still has that racing stance, the power bulge in the bonnet, aggressive bumpers

so to sum up, the IS handles almost as well as a 3, costs loads less, higher spec and looks so much more sporty

lexus customer care is far better

if you buy a bmw after all that, you are simply being a sheep, aren't you

if you don't mind my asking, why do you not like the IS so much, maybe if i knew i could understand more

[Sheepman]

Very interesting replies and it is indeed good that we can have a sensible conversation!

The reason that I do not like the IS200 is that I find it uncomfortable for long distances and after what appears to be only a very short time I start to do the 'driver jiggle' of moving around trying to find a more comfortable position. As for the dash, I find it too tiring and busy and I think it is a case of style over substance and to be honest reminds me of a cheap watch.

I also find the performance is rather too flat ( and, before you say it, I am not comparing it to the M5!). I think the 6 speed gearbox is a gimmic - it does not need it. There are some parts of it that are good, it is relatively quiet and the fuel economy is quite acceptable. Normally it is just me driving, though sometimes I carry colleagues and thats when I find the performance very limiting. With 2 or 3 up there is simply no go and overtaking becomes a real chore.

So thats it really - my opinions have been formed over th last 6 years, having driven 90,000 miles in an IS200, and over 40,000 miles in a number of 3 series, including a new 328 and 323 and 35d tds my personalexperience of the IS is that it is not quite there..I never had to deal with the dealers, my car was always picked up, so I never got to press-the-flesh in a dealership. I have no need/desire to be passionate about these cars, they are functional and serve purely the purpose of being my workhorse and as such, I found the BMWs' to be the better all-rounder. Perhaps not as different as the IS, but I felt better overall - better constructed, more ergonomical dashboards, higher quality materials and longer enduring.

Just out of interest, I possess a third car for summer, use and that is a Classic Saab 900 T16S convertible. It makes me chuckle to myself that this 13 year car can out perform, out handle the IS200 (and at times also the 320!) Yes, really..., the only modifications to it, well an RRFPR and a slightly modified wastgate to push the output to 200 ps.

The M5 is for fun, the IS200 as my donkey and the Saab for summer days.

Enjoy your cars :D

[ricky_is200]

Buy a 5 series and you are buying the best exec in its class - 7 years in a row...

Not any more though, the Mercedes E class has firmly stolen that crown.

Why do so many company car drivers drive 318's as opposed to the IS200, it being such a good car??

Compare the emmisions output of the IS200 vs the 318.

233(g/km) vs 177(g/km) which is the difference between paying £2,355 a year tax vs £1,441 for the BMW. Thats why so many company car drivers choose the 318. The Lexus is not a viable option under the new company car tax.

I'm not surprised you hate the IS200 if you also have an M5. I'm sure if I was given a Fiesta company car and made to drive round in it I'd be saying fords are crap.

[dazzab69]

Just a point of clarity in this debate people, one of the reasons that there are loads of 3-series and few IS on the roads in the UK is that BMW generally build/assemble the 3 in EU countries, whereas the IS is made in Osaka. The result is that BMW can import as many 3s as they like every year, but Lexus/Toyota are limited to a quota.

Having said that, according to the January sales figures the 3 series outsold the Golf in the UK to take the number 9 slot. However the top of the tree was dominated by the usual suspects (Focus, Fiesta, Astra), does that mean they are better cars than the 3 series ?

I find it difficult to argue some of sheepman's other points though, the IS200 has become a bit dated of late, being outperformed by most of the 2.0 Litre repmobiles that have appeared recently. Let's not forget the IS is now a four year old car, which these days is positively geriatric. The game has moved on a bit since 1999 and Lexus/Toyota have a tough task on their hands with the next gen car (2004) beating the likes of Mazda and Honda (so do BMW) at the low end.

I'd still take an IS over a 318, because the straight six outperforms a four pot and you get so much more kit. But with a bigger budget next time round I probably won't go for an IS300 because the e-shift has basically hobbled it, I'm not a fan of the GS, so unless the next IS is a leap forward I may have to defect (I'm not saying where 'cos I don't know yet). I suppose that kind of proves sheepmans point :( .

[agalbraith]

I had a 320 as a company car for a while.

I hated it.

I find the 3 series cabin claustrophobic, and under equipped. I like the 5 series, but I'm not old enough to have a 5.

I bought an IS300. I bought this having driven an Audi TT, a BMW 320, 330d, Saab 9-3 Aero, Volvo T4, Volvo S60, and others.

Yes, the Lexus doesn't have as much car park kudos as a BM. The IS in particular holds its value extremely well, not so much the IS300, but particularly the IS200 sport.

You're going to find that many of the people in this group bought a Lexus despite having the opportunity to buy a BMW, so you're not going to find a great deal of support for implication that BMW is better. It's not. Both cars and marques have values and technologies that are better in some areas, not so in others. It's an informed decision, and I believe that you're trying to support this view.

The downside is that (as dazzab69 says) the IS300 is auto only. I wanted an auto. If I were going for a manual, I'd have bought the TT.

Just my 10 cents.... euros.... yen.....

[Parthiban]

i agree that while i think the speedo is fantastic, the centre console is a bit dated but in terms of ergonomics, the IS is far better that than the 3-series. The IS satnav is in the drivers line of sight so hardly have to take your eyes off the road to see it. It is also separate from the radio (although not as cool) is much more simple to operate both while driving.

The BM has all button climate control, pain in the backside whereas IS has easy to use chunky knobs. Also climate controls are too low and also recessed under the main console (when you have satnav) so out of reach

IS is more roomy inside (although boot is smaller)

can't really compare IS200 to BM 328 cos its always gonna feel slow in comparison but when compared to 320, its not really much slower and if you really do need more power, you can always supercharge to push the IS over 200bhp (i think)

I do like the 3-series and its main problem is still the way it looks. Badge kudos is one thing, but the way a car looks is more important to me. I don't mean bodykits or anythin but just the way the car looks standard, and the BMW looks really dull, especially after they facelifted it and tampered too much

[ricky_is200]

Talking of stereo's, I've been in a couple of 3 series and in each the stereo has been just awful and sounds totally muffled. I know you can order factory fit upgrades (at a high price), but I've never heard those.

[Sheepman]

This has been my first post on this board and it has been great indeed to see so many balanced responses - truth be said, when I post on the BMW boards the responses at times are far far more extreme - I to hold the opinion that there are a number of BMW drivers who think their cars are somehow superior and everything else is inferior...more often than not it is the guys driving the 318's with the wide wheels and shiny bits ! and the LOUD stereos

Funny though, maybe it is the 3 series drivers who have the greatest to 'say' for themselves - upwardly thrusting and all that (take that last stmt what every way you wish!).

Ho hum, be nice to people is what I say - you may need their help when you are broken down at the side of the road one day!

Drive carefully!

[DTH]

Was this topic started on April Fools Day?

Having owned both brands (and a few others also), it all came down to individual choice. My company lets you opt out of the Mondeo / Vectra fleet and take the cash instead. Having weighed up the choices I plumped for the Lexus because I did not know what it was and was smitten after a test drive.

It all comes down to the fact that everyone is different and everyone has different reasons for ownership.

Even to this day people still ask what sort of car is it and what's it like to drive etc etc.

Please don't forget that Lexus is a new company / brand and that BMW started life building aircraft engines.

[Steve]

hmmm me likes this article

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/articles/...rticle_99.shtml

[Steve]

came too far out of a hole

Medium class Lexus IS200 (86%) - Top model in the study

Small car Toyota Yaris (84.7%)

Compact class Toyota Corolla (82.6%)

Vans Toyota Picnic (81.7%)

Off-roaders Toyota RAV4 (80.5%)

Sports car Toyota Celica (83.4%)

[Steve]

must have read the book a few times

http://lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.p...ST&f=32&t=4816&

[colesy]

Hi guys,

Many thanks for all the replies.

I posted here to get an opinion on how IS200/300 drivers liked there cars. I new it would be biased, but can understand that many Lexus owners would change certain things about there car.

The last 6 years I have had 7 cars. I have always test driven cars with an open mind, but mostly thought of "Great car this" because there is something different about the car. It maybe acceleration or luxury items.

But once I have owned a car for a year or so, and I think most people are the same, that I then think "I dont like this switch it's too fiddly" or "I wish I had an automatic". You now.....things like that, hence this post.

I have now had a chance to have a a little fiddle with the IS200 and think it looks lovely. Apart from the electric seats I think my current Laguna has more toys in it. Both SEEM to need to be revved high to make it go (but only had a little go in the IS), so the Jury is still out.

I have seen talk (or writing as it is) about a new IS. Does anyone know if it is likely to be in the next year or so?

I have had the privilege of driving Merc S Clk C ML, Audi A4 A6 A8, Lexus Rx and most of the 'normal' cars but not a BMW

I would love an older RX though..........much better than Merc ML..........gotta save some pennies first though

Cheers again