Car Won't Start....sometimes

[hongsit]

Guys, slight problem, ever since I fitted my origin B2 (see Origin B2 Install), I have trouble starting my car after being left standing for 12 hours or so. It ticks over, but doesn't fire. After a few attempts it eventually gets going. After a short drive it's fine. Now, as I said it was all fine before I fitted the B2, after the install, the next morning it didn't start. At first I thought it was the Battery and so asked ABM to check, they confirmed the Battery was not holding it's charge, so they replaced it 2 days ago. But now it's happened again, So it cannot be the Battery (or can it).

Well, I started to wonder was it the way I installed my B2, how could this have effected the engine start? This is how I installed the B2. I unplugged the cigarette lighter from behind and joined the plugs with my own wire and spade connectors. I then spliced off the joining wires and connected to a separate cigarette lighter adapter. The origin B2 then plugged into this and all this was hidden under the centre console (under car cigarette lighter itself).

Here is a picture of the home made connectors with a cigarette lighter adapter.

Hope I've explained this ok.

Anyway, I did this on my previous 2 cars and haven't had any problem with it, and on my previous 2 cars the cigarette lighter was constantly on, i.e. it always had power. On the lexus the cigarette lighter is only powered when the engine was on, so even better.

It just seems like something I have done, is draining the Battery and when I get back to it over a long period the Battery is near dead... But if its ticking over and just not firing does that mean Battery is ok? When the car is off, there's no power to the cigarette lighter, so how can it even drain the batt?

I don't know too much about car mechanics and certainly not an electronics guru.. anybody can shed some light on this? is it too much of a coincidence that it only started playing up after I've done the install, or is there anything else more serious? Maybe my connections were shorting out? How would that affect the engine start up? especially when there's no power.

After I driven the car, it's perfect, starts up fine... it's only after I leave it for 1/2 or so. I have removed my install and check it tomorrow to see what happens, I really hope it's fine, cause I just spent near £1k servicing, replacing a lot of stuff (including batt), will be spending £500 at WIM on sat, and really don't want to be spending anymore.

Sorry for long post.

Thanks

[wildybeast]

it has been known for even a new bettery to fail.have the terminals worked loose.

[hongsit]

it has been known for even a new bettery to fail.have the terminals worked loose.

I dont think so, i'll check anyway. It started ok once i drove it, no problem at all, its only when i leave it for a good 10hrs or so. Abm tried starting it and it didnt start, checked alternter and thats ok. Put new bat in and it started. I leave it overnight and it fails to start.

[whiteman]

It has nothing to do with your wiring that you have put in as the cig lighter only works when the ignition is turned to the forst click. have you altered the wiring to the cig lighter so it is permanently live when ignition is off?

Not sure if you have had 2 new batteries or just repeating what has being done but if y ou have not altered nothing then you could have a duff Battery. I had this problem on a car I had many years ago, got told Battery was ok and suffered the same symptoms and was the Battery in the end..

Hope it helps :winky:

[hongsit]

It has nothing to do with your wiring that you have put in as the cig lighter only works when the ignition is turned to the forst click. have you altered the wiring to the cig lighter so it is permanently live when ignition is off?

Not sure if you have had 2 new batteries or just repeating what has being done but if y ou have not altered nothing then you could have a duff battery. I had this problem on a car I had many years ago, got told battery was ok and suffered the same symptoms and was the battery in the end..

Hope it helps :winky:

The only thing ive done is to join the cig lighter plug with two wires allowing me to splice off. All works ok and the b2 powers off when i take keys out. All looks ok and cant think of what it could be. The car started ok this morn, after being idle for 8hrs. But yday morning was ok too, 2night will b the test. I'll then think about taking it back to abm. May give them a call now. I only had one new batt 2days ago. If this continues im wondering did i need a new batt at all.

[Mr Mole]

When my car suffered the wont start problem. I got a trickel charger,left it charging Battery over night.

Its solved the problem even if I leave the car for a week without starting it.

Before it would not start after only 6/8 hours.

Thats been about 3months ago,now it never misses a beat

[terry moore]

Guys, slight problem, ever since I fitted my origin B2 (see Origin B2 Install), I have trouble starting my car after being left standing for 12 hours or so. It ticks over, but doesn't fire. After a few attempts it eventually gets going. After a short drive it's fine. Now, as I said it was all fine before I fitted the B2, after the install, the next morning it didn't start. At first I thought it was the battery and so asked ABM to check, they confirmed the battery was not holding it's charge, so they replaced it 2 days ago. But now it's happened again, So it cannot be the battery (or can it).

Well, I started to wonder was it the way I installed my B2, how could this have effected the engine start? This is how I installed the B2. I unplugged the cigarette lighter from behind and joined the plugs with my own wire and spade connectors. I then spliced off the joining wires and connected to a separate cigarette lighter adapter. The origin B2 then plugged into this and all this was hidden under the centre console (under car cigarette lighter itself).

Here is a picture of the home made connectors with a cigarette lighter adapter.

Hope I've explained this ok.

Anyway, I did this on my previous 2 cars and haven't had any problem with it, and on my previous 2 cars the cigarette lighter was constantly on, i.e. it always had power. On the lexus the cigarette lighter is only powered when the engine was on, so even better.

It just seems like something I have done, is draining the battery and when I get back to it over a long period the battery is near dead... But if its ticking over and just not firing does that mean battery is ok? When the car is off, there's no power to the cigarette lighter, so how can it even drain the batt?

I don't know too much about car mechanics and certainly not an electronics guru.. anybody can shed some light on this? is it too much of a coincidence that it only started playing up after I've done the install, or is there anything else more serious? Maybe my connections were shorting out? How would that affect the engine start up? especially when there's no power.

After I driven the car, it's perfect, starts up fine... it's only after I leave it for 1/2 or so. I have removed my install and check it tomorrow to see what happens, I really hope it's fine, cause I just spent near £1k servicing, replacing a lot of stuff (including batt), will be spending £500 at WIM on sat, and really don't want to be spending anymore.

Sorry for long post.

Thanks

Hi, this is what is called a voltage drop,which is coming off the ign system.u need to fit a relay between the joints.this will happen to most fuel injected car with a low amp fuel pump.a relay stops that.if u need to know how to connect the relay,i will post them tonight when i get home.hope this helps B) TERRY

[hongsit]

Hi, this is what is called a voltage drop,which is coming off the ign system.u need to fit a relay between the joints.this will happen to most fuel injected car with a low amp fuel pump.a relay stops that.if u need to know how to connect the relay,i will post them tonight when i get home.hope this helps B) TERRY

Thanks Terry, that sounds interesting... I'm kinda convinced it's something I did fitting my B2, just seems too much of a coincidence that it started behaving funny after I fitted the B2. Do you know why it's starts absolutely perfect after I driven it (with the B2 fitted)?

Yes, would like to know how to fit the relay.

Thanks

Chi

[Geoffers]

I would be very surprised as it is your wiring as if you simply plug your Origin into the cig lighter and left in overnight. Thousands of people do this leaving equipment n the car and it is fine. That is why it is on the ignition, so it switches off.

I would be leaning towards this Battery. What level of charge was in it when you got it? Give it a really good manual charge. (not just the boost type, the overnight trickle type as Mole suggests). I do mine twice a year and I've never had to replace a Battery in my life.

There could possibly be one way this has caused it. It is if you had spliced off the lamp feed to the ignition socket. You would have a potential difference there. The lighting ECU effectively is acting like a big resistor. Is there any difference to the Origin when you turn your lights on? Although, you may not notice as the current is so low. Of course, this could also happen the other way around - the Origin is acting as a series resistor with your lighting too. (moreso if the lights are in auto)

There may be enough power getting through to power the Origin when the ignition is on so it appears as though its all turning on and off nicely, even if the lighting ecu is acting as a resistor.

This is the only possible way that your wiring could cause this, is if one the line lines is taken off the lighting. (I'm not accusing you of dodgy wiring - just a possible reason).

There is no other way you could get a potential difference. Unless there is slight arcing but I'm sure you've had a good look at this.

Do you have a meter? Why not test each point to earth and each point to positive with the ignition off and your wiring and origin connected and will know if there is anything being brought live.

I'd say it was the Battery myself, or at least something alse and it is coincidence.

I do this sort of thing all the time and it happens every now and again - completely unrelated. It probably appears more improbable to you because you don't do it often enough.

[whiteman]

When my car suffered the wont start problem. I got a trickel charger,left it charging battery over night.

Its solved the problem even if I leave the car for a week without starting it.

Before it would not start after only 6/8 hours.

Thats been about 3months ago,now it never misses a beat

I can leave my car parked for over three weeks and it starts first time no probs, no need for a trickle charge either, Battery has been on the car now for over 4 years. I am suprised it has lasted this long but I think by winter time it may need replacing..

[hongsit]

I would be very surprised as it is your wiring as if you simply plug your Origin into the cig lighter and left in overnight. Thousands of people do this leaving equipment n the car and it is fine. That is why it is on the ignition, so it switches off.

I would be leaning towards this battery. What level of charge was in it when you got it? Give it a really good manual charge. (not just the boost type, the overnight trickle type as Mole suggests). I do mine twice a year and I've never had to replace a battery in my life.

There could possibly be one way this has caused it. It is if you had spliced off the lamp feed to the ignition socket. You would have a potential difference there. The lighting ECU effectively is acting like a big resistor. Is there any difference to the Origin when you turn your lights on? Although, you may not notice as the current is so low. Of course, this could also happen the other way around - the Origin is acting as a series resistor with your lighting too. (moreso if the lights are in auto)

There may be enough power getting through to power the Origin when the ignition is on so it appears as though its all turning on and off nicely, even if the lighting ecu is acting as a resistor.

This is the only possible way that your wiring could cause this, is if one the line lines is taken off the lighting. (I'm not accusing you of dodgy wiring - just a possible reason).

There is no other way you could get a potential difference. Unless there is slight arcing but I'm sure you've had a good look at this.

Do you have a meter? Why not test each point to earth and each point to positive with the ignition off and your wiring and origin connected and will know if there is anything being brought live.

I'd say it was the battery myself, or at least something alse and it is coincidence.

I do this sort of thing all the time and it happens every now and again - completely unrelated. It probably appears more improbable to you because you don't do it often enough.

Thanks for the reply

The Battery is new, fitted 2 days ago. I replaced the batt cause i initially thought this problem was due to a dying Battery. However it has continued to happen, which has LED me to believe it's something I have done...

I took out my install for the time being, and tonight would be my fist test. If it doesn't start then it's a duff Battery.. so back to ABM. If it does start, then I leave it for another day to make sure.

Then I look at my dodgy wiring. I certainly am no electrician and not that much about electronics, so I may have done a bodge job. I try to take some pictures of exactly how I connected it up, maybe that would help. I will do the meter test.

What do you mean taken from one of the lighting? I only been joining the cig ligher plug with my own wires and splicing of that.. is there a lighting plug or wire somewhere near that?

[Geoffers]

What do you mean taken from one of the lighting? I only been joining the cig ligher plug with my own wires and splicing of that.. is there a lighting plug or wire somewhere near that?

Yes mate - to the cig lighter plug there is a switched live, earth and lighting feed (the ring that lights up around it when your lights are on)

Meter each lead with respect to earth, with and without the lights on / with and without the ignition on and you'll see which is which.

[hongsit]

What do you mean taken from one of the lighting? I only been joining the cig ligher plug with my own wires and splicing of that.. is there a lighting plug or wire somewhere near that?

Yes mate - to the cig lighter plug there is a switched live, earth and lighting feed (the ring that lights up around it when your lights are on)

Meter each lead with respect to earth, with and without the lights on / with and without the ignition on and you'll see which is which.

haha, just reading your initial post again, and i'm just confused now. lol, sorry just thick when it comes to electronics.

I don't think I spliced of the lighting. The blade connectors you see in my intial post just connects the plugs you get that join the cig. lighter. I'm sure you know that the plugs is under the gear stick console thing. The think the lighting for the cig ligter ring is another plug. I left that untouched. I did take out the plug for the ash tray light out as I found that to be constantly on (I removed the ash tray, thats where the B2 sits.)

I havent noticed any change in light to the origin, havent really paid any attention.

I was just assuming that if the key is out of the ignition everything switches off, i.e. cig lighter ring light gets switched off, no power to cig lighter.

Sorry just trying to picture the scenario you mentioned and how it can be a problem. I post pics up 2night that may help...

[Geoffers]

Best thing is to meter the connections with the Origin off. You'll be certain then. I'm sure you haven't wired it to the lamp feed of the socket but it is the only way your wiring could effect the system. If it is that at all. I'm only offering possible explanations.

When you say the ashtray light was on all the time, do you mean just with your headlights or literally all the time?

I still think it may be another issue.

[Dego]

If you can get a fuse buddy CLICK HERE you could test to see if you're cig lighter is drawing abnormal current and thus draining the Battery. It could also be used to find the location which is draining the Battery if it is not the cig lighter.

[hongsit]

If you can get a fuse buddy CLICK HERE you could test to see if you're cig lighter is drawing abnormal current and thus draining the battery. It could also be used to find the location which is draining the battery if it is not the cig lighter.

Ok, cheers buddy.. see if I need one of those.

I just tried starting the car, after taking out the B2 install yday, so the car has been idle about 18hrs or so. It started 1st time, no probs.

I'm going to leave it for another day and try again.. in the mean time and going to check out the meter readings and take some pics.

It seems like something I have done is draining the Battery big time, cause a new batt seems to have drained within 20hrs.

[hongsit]

Umm.. ok still not 100% sure. Think I have to leave it for another day to be more confident that its my install thats giving the problems.

Anyway, I stopped and started the car a few more times and it does start but there was one time it just didnt fire... can stop starting the engine without going anywhere cause these symptoms...

anyway, it was better than yday when the car just didnt fire at all.. but i'm getting really paranoid now.

I've taken the meter readings and nothing showed up, any readings i got were when the key was in click 1 and 2.

Here is the pic of my install

hope you can make out what i have done