Amp Locations

[Yeldarb]

the boot of an IS200 is pretty small,and I do use it a lot, so can the amp for my install be located under the passenger seat safely? Also save on wiring etc....

I like the look of the Alpine 5 channel amps so I will only need 1 of them to power the whole system, are these any good or is it best to go for separate ones, or at least a separate one for the sub?

Also How do you match speaker wattages with amp wattages, to get good sound quality. I want sound quality over overall loudness.

[aaronabbott]

your better off putting the amps in the boot you can mount them flat on a false floor over the spare wheel or removing the spare depending how brave your gonna be,or you could mount them on the side which would save you space overall.

personally i think your better off going with seperate amps for the front and possibly rear speakers if you want themand then 1 dedicated amp to the sub

your best off getting a budget together first though then we can suggest things to make your new system thump :winky:

[Yeldarb]

your better off putting the amps in the boot you can mount them flat on a false floor over the spare wheel or removing the spare depending how brave your gonna be,or you could mount them on the side which would save you space overall.

personally i think your better off going with seperate amps for the front and possibly rear speakers if you want themand then 1 dedicated amp to the sub

your best off getting a budget together first though then we can suggest things to make your new system thump :winky:

Sorry lets say £500? is that enough for a good sound

[sparkystav]

what do you want out of that?

i assume not a headunit,

but amps, 6x9's and subs? or door speakers as well

[Yeldarb]

Amp or amps, front speakers and rear + sub.

May well just do the front speakers to start with, depending on costs of good equipment. I have the head unit, it has a TOS link (optical out) so can this be used to supply amps? surly this will save on the amount of cables running all over the car?

[redz_UK]

£500 might just about get you the amps mate..

if you want to use the optical out the you are looking at processors, more cables and a lot more money!!

i would use two amps or a good 5 channel the jl 500/5 but it wont be cheap. i dont really rate alpine unless its the top end stuff TBH.

ona budget look at the mb quart pab2100but its only two channel.. if you went for this and a good set of speakers like the pvh 216then you def wouldnt need the rears especially if you you have a sub too.using a second one of these bridged into a single sealed sub will give you very good SQ.

for abit more volume and weight in the sub then there is always a good hifonics sub and amp combo..

if you come to the meet on 17th then can you can have a look at some systems..

[VVProtocolVV]

£500 is not really enough for the setup, unless you went for all 2nd hand stuff, which is always a risk. I think over the year i've spent roughly £400 on secondhand stuff when i see it. I've got one last amp for my sub to go which is going to be the most expensive single item for my setup.

You mention that rear speakers should be taken out? Would that be in my case if i have Alpine SPR-17s fronts and 10" Type X sub? At the moment i have Pioneer TS-A6921 380w rears?

I'm still looking around for the amp for my 10" type X sub, been looking at hifonics and jl audio like you said, but what about vibe, say Vibe Blackbox 5 Mono Amp. Are they a good solid purchase?

[Yeldarb]

interesting things car audio, after reading a few things I am now a little confused?

Can I clarify a few points?

1. If I run 1, 2 channel amp, then front and rear can be run off it so long as I don't mind loosing the front/rear fade. This would show a 2 ohm impedance, therefore more power?

2. a 4 channel amp would show 4 ohm impedance with 4 speakers attached to it, but lower power output, but gaining all the fading F/R and L/R functions. How can this be made to run at 2 ohms therefore gaining power?

3.Could I run a 4 channel amp, run the speakers of 2 channels (FR/FL)and the sub of the remaining channels (bridging RL/RR), effectively using it as a 3 channel amp?

4. Amp power ratings: are these given peak or RMS

5. How do you calculate the size of sub enclosure the sub requires?

[sparkystav]

I'll try and answer some of these:

1. If I run 1, 2 channel amp, then front and rear can be run off it so long as I don't mind loosing the front/rear fade. This would show a 2 ohm impedance, therefore more power? No i think each channel is one speaker (unless you bridge them to run a sub) so i dont think thatll work

2. a 4 channel amp would show 4 ohm impedance with 4 speakers attached to it, but lower power output, but gaining all the fading F/R and L/R functions. How can this be made to run at 2 ohms therefore gaining power?

3.Could I run a 4 channel amp, run the speakers of 2 channels (FR/FL)and the sub of the remaining channels (bridging RL/RR), effectively using it as a 3 channel amp? yeah you can do that

4. Amp power ratings: are these given peak or RMS most are given at peak, but its the RMS figure you really want

5. How do you calculate the size of sub enclosure the sub requires? it should tell you in the info provided with the sub

[Yeldarb]

Thanks Stzv.

if I use the following it comes in at £515

MB Quart DSC480 (4 channel amp) £190 link

2 channels supplying all 4 corners and 2 channels bridged for a sub.

Vibe Spec6 (Front components) £160 link

Vibe QB69 (Rear 6*9) £70 link Although I think these are a bit ugly.

Vibe BA12 V3 (12" sub) £95 link

OK I don't know how Vibe relates to others, but as a value system how does that sound, for starters? My theory is keeping the same speaker manufacturer will keep a balanced sound?

I know wiring and sub enclosure is more that does not concern me at the moment though.

[redz_UK]

interesting things car audio, after reading a few things I am now a little confused?

Can I clarify a few points?

1. If I run 1, 2 channel amp, then front and rear can be run off it so long as I don't mind loosing the front/rear fade. This would show a 2 ohm impedance, therefore more power?

2. a 4 channel amp would show 4 ohm impedance with 4 speakers attached to it, but lower power output, but gaining all the fading F/R and L/R functions. How can this be made to run at 2 ohms therefore gaining power?

3.Could I run a 4 channel amp, run the speakers of 2 channels (FR/FL)and the sub of the remaining channels (bridging RL/RR), effectively using it as a 3 channel amp?

4. Amp power ratings: are these given peak or RMS

5. How do you calculate the size of sub enclosure the sub requires?

1. you can but you run the risk of blowing the amp if its not 2ohm stable.. also sq will be terrible if your rears are running the same volume as the fronts.

2. again, you will prob blow the amp. run the amp at what its meant to be run at. the only way to do it if you insisted would be to run two speakers per channel in series.. then you just split the power over each speaker!

(i would be surprised if you need more than 50w rms per channel. That is a good figure to be aiming at unless you want it loud. if so then 75w rms is enough.. most speakers will struggle with much more or will just sound pants.)

3. yes. is a common set up. ie the jl 300/4 using 2x 75w rms over 2 channels and 150w rms on the sub. some amps have 5 channels just for this ie the jl500/5

4. depends on the amp! use the rms rating as the most accurate although some do overrate them using unrealistic voltage ie alpine rate everything at 14.4v which rarely happens in your car on a standard elect system.

5. there are parameters that you can put into a program called bbp6 (bass box pro 6) although itsvery easy to get wrong so its much easier to pay somebody to build it or if you buy from a decent shop they will build the box or supply the dimensions. Some manufacturers also put these in your box ie JL MB Quart etc..

[Yeldarb]

Scrub the above, Infinity at the back (6*9 and amp and Sub) and Alpine SPR17s with a 2 way amp yet to be confirmed probable a Harmon Kordon HAR-CA280E up front all in for £350 all new kit. I love customers who want tattooing in exchange for stuff!!

now just need to tattoo him and then install it all, first I need my car :D

[redz_UK]

Thanks Stzv.

if I use the following it comes in at £515

MB Quart DSC480 (4 channel amp) £190 link

2 channels supplying all 4 corners and 2 channels bridged for a sub.

Vibe Spec6 (Front components) £160 link

Vibe QB69 (Rear 6*9) £70 link Although I think these are a bit ugly.

Vibe BA12 V3 (12" sub) £95 link

OK I don't know how Vibe relates to others, but as a value system how does that sound, for starters? My theory is keeping the same speaker manufacturer will keep a balanced sound?

I know wiring and sub enclosure is more that does not concern me at the moment though.

you will kill the amp mate

try the pab2100 - think this is about £160 and a set of comps for the front - pvi 216 (would need to check if these will fit) or the shallow mount ones (rua) think these are about £200..

then another pab2100 £160 and either the reference sub or premium sub upto £180

your looking at about £700 but some tweaking and bartering and i should be able to get you some dealings closer to your original budget!!

you will also need to budget for some dynamat for the front doors at a minimum (especially if you want SQ), power cabeling and baffles (unless you make your own) so about another £100 there..

i really suggest listening to a set up with rears to convince you to lose em mate.. we could do a mini meet if your eager to get started so you can listen to mine?

[VVProtocolVV]

So is it good practice to lose the rear speakers if you have decent front and sub?

[redz_UK]

Scrub the above, Infinity at the back (6*9 and amp and Sub) and Alpine SPR17s with a 2 way amp yet to be confirmed probable a Harmon Kordon HAR-CA280E up front all in for £350 all new kit. I love customers who want tattooing in exchange for stuff!!

now just need to tattoo him and then install it all, first I need my car :D

the harmon is a nice amp but not too impressed with the rest!!

any chance of you getting the 470??

@vvprotocol - imo, yes.. think about most home set ups.. you only use two speakers at the front.. unless its an av set up and then the rears are only effect speakers and not used when playing music..

i will be adding some small rears into the c pillar when i go 5.1 surround but the 6x9's are staying out.. thats where the subs port through..

[Yeldarb]

This was a 5 min conversation, whilst the wife was tattooing the guy so details are by by means set in stone.

I was under the impression Infinity was good equipment? If the rears are really not worth having and the front is spot on then thats a different conversation. The deal is cost price equipment equal to tattooing hours in £'s, so this opens up many avenues to me, although not to many as he only has so much skin to colour

[VVProtocolVV]

So if i take the rears out, it means i only really need a 2 channel amp...shame as i have already got a alpine MRV-F345 4 channel amp.

[redz_UK]

So if i take the rears out, it means i only really need a 2 channel amp...shame as i have already got a alpine MRV-F345 4 channel amp.

you could bridge the 4 ch to give more headroom...

[VVProtocolVV]

Been searching and i think this nailed it for the rears...

"Likewise with a friends install - he went "all out" and had components up front, 2x 12" subs in the boot with a pair of 6x9's on the rear shelf. Came round to show me how good his bass was, and I thought it was sh!t lol..... So I just cut the connectors to the cones on the 6x9's so only the tweets were playing, and instantly it felt and sounded better. Mainly cos the subs were firing into the airspace in the boot that the 6x9's were also trying to use, and each cancelled the other out somewhat. Eliminating the 6x9 cones allowed the subs the "breathe" fully, raulting in better sound and feel"

[redz_UK]

Been searching and i think this nailed it for the rears...

"Likewise with a friends install - he went "all out" and had components up front, 2x 12" subs in the boot with a pair of 6x9's on the rear shelf. Came round to show me how good his bass was, and I thought it was sh!t lol..... So I just cut the connectors to the cones on the 6x9's so only the tweets were playing, and instantly it felt and sounded better. Mainly cos the subs were firing into the airspace in the boot that the 6x9's were also trying to use, and each cancelled the other out somewhat. Eliminating the 6x9 cones allowed the subs the "breathe" fully, raulting in better sound and feel"

lol..

some kind of crazy logic!! would have been so much better without them in at all..

there is a theory of a limited narrow midrange band for rear fill (cant remember what its called but begins with H) but needs some serious testing time and equipment to get it right..

im more than happy to demonstrate what im talking about any time you see me at meets..

[DJ Wozza]

IMO the Rear 6x9's should only be used as rear fill. After all, you don't go to a concert and have your back

to the sound coming from the stage do you ? If the bass has no port through to the inside of a saloon car,

the pressure wave changes when a bass note hits in the boot, means the back of the 6x9's will take a real

hammering, unless of course they are in some kind of own enclosure (which they are not on the IS200).

The bass from the subs may be pushing the cone in the wrong direction to the way it is moving, ie out of phase

causing distortion/possible damage.

An easy way around this problem and keeping the 6x9's for rear fill, is to remove the ski hatch.

It unbolts very simply & comes out in one piece, and can be put back easily when it comes time to sell your car.

(CLICK HERE to see how to remove the rear seat - then the ski hatch just simply unbolts)

Armrest up or down seems fine after that, though of course be aware anything loose in your boot may find itelf

a portal to do damage under heavy braking. However if you fit you sub/subs so they fire through the ski hatch,

problem solved :D

With many people upgrading to DVD systems, the rear fill effect is very much worthwhile IMO. 60-80% of the sound

should still come from the front components, though this is variable to personal taste and also the source media.

Also it does keep rear passengers happier too, depending on how often they are in your car.

[Yeldarb]

I the general consensus from people I have been talking to is to use the 6*9 as rear fill (exactly as Wozza Says).

The set up I have decided on will be using all Rainbow components, apart from the sub amp (Alpine) and rear 6*9's (Infinity reference series) ski hatch removed and loads of matting on the front doors to deaden the vibrations.

The Sub enclosure is 1.25 Cuft but the manufacturer says 1cuft is best, is this extra 0.25 cuft going to make a huge difference or should I just baffle out some of the box with screwed in MDF so the internal volume is exactly 1Cuft? Also I have loads of carpet underlay, can this be used to sound proof the tailgate?

Still keeping to £500 budget JUST....

[DJ Wozza]

You could try it mate, it won't do any harm, I have 2 layers of Dynamat (it may be 3 but I can't remember)

on my bootlid, plus another on the back of the number plate to help stop rattles. I'd suggest get your system

in, with Dynamat on the front doors, and then see what problem you have with the boot :)

As for the subwoofer box, is it ported or sealed ? It is always best to follow the manufacturers recommendations.

You mention the box is 1.25cu.ft, have you measured inside the box to confirm this is accurate ?

Have you also taken the displacement of the subwoofer when fitted into the equation ? By that I mean the area

inside the box that will be taken up by the subwoofer magnet/chassis/cone etc when the subwoofer is fitted.

You might be closer to the ideal volume when this is taken into account :)

[Asi]

i will be using dynamat soon to get rid of rattles

[Yeldarb]

As for the subwoofer box, is it ported or sealed ? It is always best to follow the manufacturers recommendations.

You mention the box is 1.25cu.ft, have you measured inside the box to confirm this is accurate ?

Have you also taken the displacement of the subwoofer when fitted into the equation ? By that I mean the area

inside the box that will be taken up by the subwoofer magnet/chassis/cone etc when the subwoofer is fitted.

You might be closer to the ideal volume when this is taken into account :)

The box is sealed. The instructions say a 1CuFt sealed box which includes the displacement of the Sub. I will measure the inside of the box tonight just to make sure!! The manufacturer also states it can be run in a ported box but that would be 2cuft so will use to much room in my boot.

For a sub crossover is it OK to use the Alpine amps own one or just run full range through a standalone one?

Alpine crossover Spec:

# BassEngine® Sound Tuning

# Crossover Network: 18dB/oct

# Low Pass Crossover Frequency (Adjustable): 50Hz – 200 Hz

# Subsonic Filter (Fixed): 15Hz @ 24dB / oct.

# Bass EQ Frequency (Fixed): 50Hz

# Bass EQ Level (Adjustable): 0 - 12dB

Incidentally the Sub is capable of being run as a 4 Ohm or 2 Ohm, it has 2 sets of cable connectors so very easy to really load up the amp.