Jamesf1

so from the dawn of motoring to the 80's, when almost all cars were RWD and did not have electronics...how did anyone survive?

and yes your vehicle stability control and electronic stability control is constantly stopping you from wandering and flying off the road. - ok you are joking now right?

Name: John Lexus Model: GS430 Sold, Honda Accord 2.4 Year of Lexus: 2003 Location: Bedfordshire Report post Posted 9 minutes ago No you wouldn't. SEAT Cupra, Renault Megane RS and the New Civic type R's have all officiallly lapped famous tracks quicker than Audi RS3, Merc A clas AMG and BMW 140iM these pack even more power than them.. again BTCC racing which has a combination of FWD and RWD cars competing proves this claim is flawed and all things are made equal in this sector of racing. - I said all being equal. totally different makes models in not all being equal. Convert any of those cars to RWD and that would be quicker. And the BTCC things are made equal by nullyfying the RWD advantage fact that you haven't provoked them does not mean they and other driver aids are not working in the background when driving. - yes it does. In the background the electronics are monitoring set parameters, its not constantly stopping me fly off the road with aids completely turned off most will find it difficult to even keep a RWD car to point straight when accelerating heavy on dry tarmac.. - just LOL

one is not even guaranteed to go quicker on the track just because its RWD - all else equal you would. but lets be honest for our day to day driving and the occasional blast on less busy roads when no one is watching, FWD can do this just fine. technologies like electronic steering , traction control, stability/yaw control, suspension type/damping, limited slip diff has made tourque steer pretty much a thing of the past even if its there, its not that bad like it used to be on high BHP FWD cars. - totally agree i think driver aids has made most RWD drivers think they are better drivers than they actually are when in fact most of the electronics are actually keeping the car car balanced and straight to prevent one from ending up in a ditch but makes diver think its all them... - eh? Ive provoked the traction\stability control into action once on my GS in 27k miles...that was a standing start at walking speed on snow. However, disable these systems and a RWD car is easier to loose it for average Joe

Outrageous! Aston Martin make the best FWD cars.

Lol

As it’s a run out model it’s selling by the truckload due to finance deals. On a pcp you get 10k off without trying and very low APR. Very cheap business lease rates too I understand.

I cant wait for Linus to to see this ha ha

"a RWD will not hold an advantage when starting of the line" In the British Touring car championship, with is a mix of RWD and FWD, RWD cars have to have a different first gear to reduce their advantage on a standing start.

+1 my mate has driven one, he was impressed.

yes, I meant couldnt of been FWD and if it breaks traction all the time, some of this is down to the driver, the throttle works both ways..I dont remember reading any GSF reviews where traction was an issue, in fact I was left with the impression its pretty planted..(with the caveat ive never driven one)

RWD has 2 advantages in road driving: Straight line traction and turning lock on the front wheels. In general driving there is nothing in it. In fact the Mondeo mk4 I had was a better drivers car than either my IS or GS, with better weighted steering, more responsive\fluid to thread down a country road. But - as you get to the limit, i.e. on a race track, RWD is a better balanced experience, and dynamically better to split the task of power delivery and direction change across both ends rather than load onto 1. Where I agree with Linus is that RWD is a purer, better(dynamically) way of moving a car, and in the right circumstances FWD simply cannot generate the same pleasure in the raw driving experience. Whilst my GS250 on the road doesnt especially gain from RWD other than the points I made about lock\traction, at the end of the day I just like the its RWD. Where I dont agree is that I believe it doesnt makes any difference, in everyday sensible driving, to most people, to be an issue in commercial\marketing terms for most cars. In terms of the ES its in a crossover point in the market. So i dont think the gs300h, specially benefits from RWD for it customer base, but the GSF couldnt have been anything other than RWD. Without at least AWD theer cannot be a viable ESF. Pushed on a race track a 5 series will be a better drive than the ES, a lot due to RWD vs FWD. However, in the real world, dynamically there is no reason why it cant be close the the 5, and be better than A6\E class even though its FWD.

The current GS has “many faults”???

it has been designed and engineered to appeal to drivers in this region That does not say it has been designed to match the handling of the 5 series.

Doubt is for uk as hybrid only

Only hybrid for Western Europe from Lexus uk website. 350 and 250 for Eastern Europe, USA far east

"either the steering wheels is set very low in picture or the instrument "dome" protrudes very high-up." this mimics the LC, and in the pic above from behind the wheel looks good, but from an offset angle looks a bit odd "I guess if one doesn't care about driving dynamics:" from Autocar: "The new car is tasked with drastically increasing sales in Europe, so it has been designed and engineered to appeal to drivers in this region.Part of the motivation for this decision will no doubt be the success of European rivals to the ES, such as the BMW 5 Series, which is renowned for its good handling and strong performance. Lexus has therefore engineered the new ES to be significantly more driver-focused than its predecessors.The new ES features multi-link rear suspension and has a V-brace behind the backseats to enhance handling and precision. ES Sport models add adaptive damping to this technical layout. It can be manually adjusted through a Drive Mode Select system." So id say - yes its fwd vs rwd for the GS, but we need to reserve judgement on this.

I like the exterior design a lot. Not as keen on the interior but a photo is different to sitting in it. I think it will grow on me. I do prefer an integrated screen, rather than the German esque we stuck a tablet on the dashboard look. The one bit Im struggling with is the angular instrument suround. Lovely exterior shape Overall I like it.

Spoiler alert? Details released yesterday on the new Toyota Avalon on which ES is based: http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/all+new+2019+toyota+avalon+beams+effortless+sophistication+style+exhilaration.htm pics: http://pressroom.toyota.com/album_display.cfm?album_id=1303&section_id=361 Details on hybrid system: A new TNGA 2.5-liter four-cylinder Dynamic Force Engine is more fuel efficient, runs cleaner, and is more powerful than previous iterations, and excels at dissipating thermal inefficiencies. Doing it all took the implementation of Toyota’s vast catalog of advanced engine technologies: Dual VVT-i with VVT-iE (Variable Valve Timing intelligent system by Electric motor); D-4S (Direct injection 4-stroke gasoline engine Superior version) direct injection and laser-clad valve seats; longer stroke (4.07 inches; bore remains at 3.44 inches) and high compression ratio (14:1); multi-hole direct fuel injectors; a variable cooling system; cooled Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system; and a full variable oil pump. Instead of oil pressure, its Dual VVT-i with VVT-iE variable valve system employs an electric motor to control variable valve timing, which aids fuel efficiency and promotes cleaner exhaust emissions (this is especially helpful in cold climates). The D-4S direct injection combines higher-pressure direct fuel injection (DI) and lower-pressure port fuel injection (PFI), and applies each method of injection based on specific driving parameters. Furthering fuel efficiency are new multi-hole nozzle direct injectors (six holes per injector). The four-cylinder Dynamic Force Engine is married to an all-new Toyota Hybrid System II powertrain that’s been engineered to inspire both spirited driving and fuel consciousness. The hybrid system’s net power output is an impressive 215 horsepower – up 15 horsepower versus the outgoing version. THS II uses two electric motors – MG1 and MG2 – to supplement the charging of the hybrid system’s Nickel-Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) battery pack, while MG2 assists the engine. New for 2019, the highly compact battery pack now resides under the rear passenger seat (instead of the trunk), as a result of improved TNGA packaging and for the betterment of a lower center of gravity. THS II’s new lighter, smaller Power Control Unit (PCU) packages microcontrollers within a power stack structure that’s located above the transaxle – all with the goal of lowering mass to better handling composure. Efficiencies on many levels are seen with the implementation of the new PCU. Energy loss in the conversion efficiency of the transaxle and electric motor is reduced by approximately 20 percent, and its cooling system’s energy loss is cut by approximately 10 percent. The PCU’s DC-DC converter – which converts a direct current from one voltage level to another – is optimized to reduce overall power consumption. Dimensionally, DC-DC converter’s output filter is smaller, lighter, and quieter for an improved passenger experience. Auto Glide Control (AGC), yet another of Avalon’s fuel-saving technologies, automatically calculates efficient coasting. When driving normally, engine braking will slow the vehicle down when the driver lifts off from the accelerator pedal. However, to avoid aggressive engine braking, AGC limits the loss of vehicle speed through an automatic drive setting that acts more like a neutral gear, allowing the vehicle to coast to the stoplight.

Yes they still get that dig in not as exciting to drive as.....An Audi A6 is not any better to drive, neither is a five on stock suspension in the real world.

I hope the ES does a good job of filling these shoes http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-5630807/The-reliable-second-hand-luxury-cars.html

Your right about space - recently looked at a Skoda superb estate and kodiaq suv, the superb was no smaller but the mrs wouldn’t see past the suv. Being higher means it’s easier getting babies and small kids in and out, but I think the suv just carries more prestige for some reason. Personally I don’t like them. Comprised so not actually good off road (most arnt even 4x4) or on road- tall, blunt, heavy.

same here, hated NX and RX in first pr pics but both look great on the road LC looks even better than the pics and it looks fantastic in pics cant wait to see a new LS

"Its certainly a classy looking thing" +1

From Lexus UK blog - ES preview