spwolfx

and what exactly did you expect? Its car with V8 power, not some 4cly diesel. Plus, you will need to learn how to drive it to get the best mpg (just look at the screen), and your mpg will improve with time... It also does not like short trips during cold days, which usually bring down mpg by 10%...

which is what I expected, from all the technology in the engine. And I am sure its elasticity will comeup during the comparos...

yeah, times also said it had cheap interior :-).

Steve, thanks - you are right and we did think about doing just that. We decided to wait for Leic Lexus to get their diesel IS in later in December rather than to drive the Avensis. We have been assured of one of the 1st testdrives. The bottom line is that the Merc C220CDI is very agricultural, the Audi A4 (which we have now - 1.9PDI130) is an old design, but a good'n and the new 2.0TDI is noisier than the 1.9. The Beemer is fab...so as long as the Toyota derived engine sits averagely well and comparable to the VAG unit we will still buy... I have driven 3 merc's - E220CDI, C220CDI and C270CDI and was very disappointed, yet no Motoring hack has ever commented on how rough and shameful that 2.2 Merc engine sounds...The 2.7 was not too bad, given it has 5 cylinders compared to the better balanced 4 pot on the 2.2! The Lexus is well insulated for noise inside, and all Lexus dealers who have driven the IS220d back to back with the competetion in Monaco say the engine compares well to the BMW and new 2.0TDI VAG units (who says they're biased.... ). So I'll trust them on this. I have been given the golden guarantee, which could mean one of two things...either they are are sure I'll love it, or they're sure I won't! Either way, I'll post as soon as I have driven it. PS - The Mole is right - apart from it's diesel engine, the BMW is the biggest imposter. It does not, in my view, ride that well when compared to the IS with 16" wheels. It handles well enough though. Once you stick the SE wheels on the IS (i.e. 245/17 rear and 225/17 front), it becomes a little "hard" and fidgety at lower speeds, and does humm more for more of the time...6.5-7/10 The standard IS rides exceptionally (in my view), slight taught, but not harsh and forgiving, and corners very well 8.5-9/10. ← I wrote this earlier somewhere. Avensis was tested vs all of the rivals (C class, 320tdi, new A4, etc), and it had the best engine - quietest, with most power. AMS (german mag) said Japanese diesel engines (Accord and Avensis) were clearly much better than German. Avensis while on the paper slightly slower than 320d, was much, much, faster in passing times than 320d. Now, all these UK IS220d reviews poping out say IS220d is slow and loud.(most of them from bigger mags, smaller outfits say it is good engine). I find it hard to believe that IS220d has less sound absorbing material than Avensis and that they somehow managed to detune the engine to make it slower :-). It only weights a bit more, and RWD drive would help with traction. Now, closer you read those reviews, more you wonder if they have ever been in the car. Sunday Times said IS interior was cheap and major letdown (what?). Some say ride is too harsh (ppl who drove BMW say BMW has harsher ride), etc, etc. One review said that IS220d was "much" slower than 320d (8.9 vs 8.7 sec 0-62, lol). Seriously, until people test the car, I wont trust any of that. Some people are scepctical about advertising motivating reviewers, but it is pretty much true. Not only that, but a lot of editors and reviewers see Lexus and Toyota as an outsider ruining the party and are very loyal to "their" favorite brands...

p.s. It is said that 2.2d accelerates like crazy from 100mph to the top speed limiter :-).

Looks to me like the 3.0 l 165 D4D Land Cruiser has slightly more torque (410 Nm) so has the Land Cruiser 4.2 l TD SW (430 Nm) and they both come with auto box. So the reason for not having an IS220d with an auto box must be somewhere else. ← It is an 5 Speed AT, built for trucks. While it might be pretty small for truck, it is probably still way too big for IS. Problem is that Lexus thinks about selling 10,000 IS220d per year, and since most Europeans wouldnt want AT, that means very, very low niche for IS220d AT. As to the dude from Portugal - I suspect pricing differences are due to different taxing. I would take IS220d in a second if I was you. First articles about IS220d are appearing and they are pretty mixed. Smaller outfits say it is pretty nice and quiet while larger UK mags (hint: BMW advertising power) say it is loud and relativly slow. But the fact is that 2.2d Clean Power engine in Avensis was rated higher than BMW's 320d engine in both power and quietness in recent Automotor und Sport tests. While it was as fast as BMW (and IS's is only 0.2 slower), it was much faster in 60-80kmh and 80-120kmh tests which actually shows that a lot of BMW's 0-60 time comes from long 2nd gear. And much quieter experience. Now, is Lexus going to have louder engine / less sound deadning materials than Avensis? IS RWD car going to be significantly slower than FWD? What you lose by slightly more weight, you gain with superior traction to start with. Something smells funny :-).

colder weather will make it worse a bit, especially if you drive short trips. My milage is down by around 10%. But at the same time, after some 5,000-6,000 miles, it will be worked in and you will start getting some better mpg's as well. People say that around 6,000 miles and 12,000 miles everyone should see decent improvements. You cant really compare it to car's mpg, since aerodynamic's is all different. Best and easiest tips I could give to fellow HSD driver is to anticipate stops and release gas pedal long before stop light, and use cruise control as much as you can. Cruise control is magic for highway mpg... Of course, dont forget to give it a bit of go at times, especially if you are not anywhere close to an stop, since that will give it an nice work out and you will feel much better :-). Plus, it wont do too much damage for the mpg. But real plus of HSD is that it is so damn amazing. You simply love watching and feeling it work, dont you? :-). In RX it lowers the mpg by some 30% while giving it V8 type performance.

no, car will lose the sight of the key under certain conditions, even if it is the car... for example, in the handbag at the back seat, it should not work... under the seat, it should not work... shutting the car off while driving is really an "killer" idea... Smart entry is really convenient and is a bit safer than normal key, it is an win-win choice. Trust me, it is one of the major new features that you will love. I am pretty sure I wouldnt buy an car without it anymore...

I dont see the problem - what happens in "normal" car when you open the boot and go to put something in? It is even worse, your key is in the car! And you have to take the key out, and then put it back in again. With smart entry, you simply keep it in your pocket. It is very intuitive system thats pretty smart and after few days you wont want a car without it... As to the automatic locking, it would be an possible death trap if it was to automatically shut down the engine - for example, woman might put her key in the purse, and then throw the purse to the back, forgetting that key is inside, what happens then? Car stops, she crashes into the wall? :-).

p.s. IS200 is nothing close to IS250 and its equipment package was nothing to IS250's equipment packages... That being said, IS220d should be an fine choice...

foldable rear seats are huge no-no in luxury car. You would not belive how much noise could intrude from the back of the car. No matter how much sound proofing you add, it is going to be much noiser - little objects hitting each other in the boot will sound even worse in noise free enviroment. It is really an big no no for sedans, I would like to say that I would never buy an hatch back again because of that very reason, except I had no choice and am looking at small SUV as next purchase so I am doomed once again...

so they said IS handled better? sweet...

Actually, MB was NOT quicker EVER, until RX reached the top speed. What the test actually said was that ML was quicker in the desert sand, because of the real 4x4 drive, and only quicker to start and soon RX overtook it... until it reached top speed of 190kmh, while ML went over 200kmh... Actual times on the pavement - RX was 2sec faster 0-60 and passing times were between 1.5 and 2 sec faster. Thats huge. Thats simply another class. I am not sure if chip would have with such differences, plus, you think chipped car wouldnt spend more fuel? How does that magic work? :-). Only way it doesnt spend more fuel is that you dont press the pedal. Also, it was an Autobild test, sponsored by MB. MB had an gas truck running after them with low sulphur diesel (cant get it in the US) to refuel ML. And electric engines work the best initially, so kick in is there right from the start and it actually slows down to the end, while then petrol engine starts coming strong. Should I even mention that when Automotor und sport tested ML and RX, RX spent 30% less fuel? :-). When I get my RX400h, I will meet up with Dieter to compare the two, sounds good? :-).

nope, I am saying that MB does not have any mass production hybrids on sale. I am not aware that they have any kind of hybrid on sale (maybe some prototype in Trucks or Busses?). While it is all nice that they have PR machine that is happy to claim their "technology" the best, it is just an PR until they start selling them... which is long way ahead. Obviously, you are free to choose whatever you like and I am sure ML320CDI is splendid machine, it is just that MB has NO hybrids and even the ones they presented in S class had smaller electric engine than Prius. Hopefully they will not sell that one in 2008. Europeans are very protective about diesels and most journalists are anti-hybrid. Maybe they are simply not used to the technology as Americans are? I do honestly believe that hybrids are more suited for Europe than US, so situation should be vice versa! For European market, having 4cly petrol hybrid in RX400h would be perfect actually. RX would still be as fast as 320CDI but would spend some 20% less fuel. Maybe then the European journalists would get the point? :-). Unfortunatly, market in Europe is a bit small for this kind of vehicle, so maybe we shall get Rav4 eventually with something similar.... As to the people that buy V8 not caring about consumption, I really dont believe that is true. I really dont mind when my turbo mr-s spends 11l/100kmh but at the same time it is nice feeling when I see my Prius at 4.4l/100kmh, going almost as fast. Since Toyota is the first company with production hybrid-diesel, I am pretty sure they will be first company to have it in Europe, if it makes sense financially. In modern hybrid diesel engine, you have so many more points of failure that I really dont see it financially viable to have FULL hybrid anytime soon. As to the driving, Hybrid powertrain is well matched to diesel - it eliminates turbo hole which is fairly big turbo diesel problem plus reduces emissions when reduction is needed the most. For example, Prius might function well with 1.4D4D 90hp engine found in Corolla and wouldnt be that much more expensive either.

um, I understand you love MB which is why you go around telling people how great it is, but you clearly do not know everything that you like to talk about. 1. Toyota currently has the cleanest diesel in the world - it is also the most powerful 4cly diesel - Clean Power 180. 2. MB has no hybrids on sale. Their knowledge of hybrid technology is very limited. Every few years they make press releases about how they have these "hybrids" planned only few years ahead. They certainly dont sell one and their system is certainly not "best", since it does not exist in production enviroment. 3. Toyota already sells Hybrid diesels around the world in Trucks and Vans. It has been selling them for more than a year now. Technology is already here. ------- I think Clarkson's review is VERY positive for RX400h. Why? Because when you take out his uninformed points, we get one very positive review. For example: - maintenance on 3 engines... well, there is 0 maintainance on hybrid components. In fact, petrol engine lasts longer, has some 4 belts less to replace and brakes might get spent up to 80% less in hybrid. - consumption - 29mpg is bad when X5 V8 gets what? 18? Then he compares it to 170hp diesel from XC90....eh? Comparing Ferrari to GTI? Dont get me wrong, I like diesels as well, but for European, hybrid makes gazillion times more sense than diesels because most people live in cities. It doesnt have to be an big city either. I was very suprised to find my prius gets only 4.5-5.0l on average when comparable Avensis 116hp diesel got 7.2l-7.4l over the same routes. Once MB gets hybrid ML out, I am sure Dieter will change his mind about that ML320CDI :-).

Eh, this looks like it was designed for MB diesel to win. Let me offer few facts: - RX400h has a lot more torque than ML - AutoBild's own tests show that RX has significantly better passing speed than ML320CDI - RX400h is a lot faster in every other performance test as well - Auto Motor und Sport's individual tests shown RX400h getting average consumption of 30% better than ML320 while on their test fleet. I wonder what exactly did they qualify as city driving when on all of the individual tests, ML320 spent 1l-3l more in city driving than RX400h. Let me show Autobild's own results for both cars: 0-100kmh RX - 7.7 sec ML - 9.0 sec 60-100kmh RX - 3.9 sec ML - 5.0 sec 80-120kmh RX - 4.9 sec ML - 6.4 sec As to the RX400h premium of 5k, it is still on the same level of pricing as ML320CDI. And these are Auto Motor und Sport mpg's during their testing: RX400h 10.1l/100km ML320CDE 12.9l/100km To be fair, ML320CDI is an fine suv, and certainly holds advantage over RX400h in high speed highway mpg especially, but I find it quite funny that they only managed to get 11% difference at task that was specifically done to suit ML... And even taken at face value, 11% difference in MPG gives you 30% difference in speed.

actually, it is the most powerful, smoothest and cleanest 4cly diesel in the world. And it is cheaper than 320d from grounds up... when you add up equipment, it is significantly cheaper. So new IS is more expensive than old? So what, you get a lot more of an car too, more equipment, and it is only more expensive than IS200 base, and who bought that? 320d with same equipment as IS220d Base is 5-6k more expensive, and thats if you keep steel wheels on BMW!!! You can always get Avensis 150hp or 177hp diesel, it has all the goodies as well - xenons, nav, leather, heated seats/windshield, auto wipers/miror/everything... but eh, we all want lexus :-).

actually, RX400h has bigger wheels/tires and firmer suspensions, so it hugs the road nicer than RX300...

eh, Murano looked pretty crappy to me when I sat in it at Auto show... Small interior, 350z wannabe styling, shiny everything... Plus, when you know that the same car is sold in the US for 10k less than RX, you smell it quite easily...

I doubt it was the main goal, BUT as with Prius, in RX400h you might feel as you should be striving to get the best MPG you can get. As to the driver adjusting to the car, we always do that - dont we? If I drove an diesel like I drive an petrol car, there would be no gas savings and my diesel engine would fry from constant 4.5k rpm limiter bounce :-). People have been pretty happy with mpg they got with RX, and thats before engine got worked in... you can only imagine how happy they will be after 3 months...

interesting about keyless entry system... notice hot it has sensors on the doors as well. As to lexus in Japan, first 3 models will be new GS, new IS and (facelifted?) SC. Then as other models start getting facelifts/redesigns, they will be going into Lexus stable.

first of all, MB doesnt even have an production hybrid system, they are some 7 yrs behind... Once they actually start selling one, we can talk about it. Right now, it is all press talk (PR). As to the speed, one again - RX400h is not an Prius... It has significantly more power (3x) and it is better at recharging, has better batteries, etc, etc. Outside of driving it on the track, there should be no problems with depleting the batteries. For example, nice X5 3.0d goes 50-70mph in 5.1 secs, RX400h goes 50-70mph in 3.5 secs. Thats an huge difference. You will see the difference when you drive it :-). Main point is that if people are expecting some slow-poke version of RX300 that saves gas and goes slowly, they are in for the suprise. You have to compare it with most powerful competitors in order for it to make sense financially. So if you are looking to save money over RX300, then no way will it pay for itself. If you are looking for high performance SUV that saves gas as well, then you should like it. And refinement of an petrol hybrid can not be matched by an diesel. Of course, you get used to the diesel sound but those cold mornings get me annoyed when I am in diesel.

Heh, I am sure you will like it. I have been following RX400h for a while, and I am sure there is a bit of scepticism, especially in Europe, as to how much better hybrids really are. A lot of this comes from German carmakers which are now on defensive because they are way too late to the game. For people that dont know, RX400h has 3 electric generators (engines), totalling some >220hp of electric power. One of them is only used for recharging batteries, so there is some 170hp left for powering vehicle - this is on top of 208hp petrol engine :-). Now, reason Lexus claims "only" 268hp is because their peak hp is at different levels. Electric engines peak at about 2k rpm while gas engine peaks at some 5k rpm. What you get at the end is constant speed and power from down below to the top. This is why passing speed - which is also great point for diesels - is so awesome, in fact it is better than SRX V8 with 320hp, which is considered very fast suv in the states... We had an german guy come to clublexus.com and share his german drive experience (which was first european experience we heard), and he said that RX400h was actually too fast for him. Every time he pressed the pedal, RX would jump like crazy - thats what all that electric power gives you. Now turbo diesels still have their own merrits, and I dont think hybrid technology excludes them at all, but RX400h should be more powerful (electric generators are way faster to respond), a lot more refined (cold morning starts?) while spending similar amounts of gas... I am definetly looking into getting one when it finally arrives to the europe. We shall see....

Sorry to intrude, but this post is full of bad info. Only thing that you will really notice first in RX400h is thremendous power. Every time you hit the pedal, you will notice huge difference. Its passing times - for example 50-70mph should be 1sec faster than anything else other than 4.8is which is much, much more expensive car... You should also get significantly better mpg. Now you can claim it will "not" get same mpg as claimed, but does the V6 diesel get same mpg in town as claimed? surely not :-). It should get some 30% better mpg than RX300, while being much, much faster vehicle... To me, that sounds pretty awesome... and p.s. it is sooo quiet, even in cold mornings...

RX400h with its lower mpg will appeal more to Europeans than americans, but performance wise it is an beast. Notice those passing times - they are full 1 sec faster than Caddy SRX, which is one of the fastest mid-suv's in the usa, with 320hp V8 engine :-). It should be even faster than 4.4i... It will always make a lot of sense if you do a lot of in-town driving. And if you actually calculate the performance benefits, it will always make sense.