Towing a caravan.

[Zuke]

So I think I've established that my IS250 isn't for towing, even though Witter make a towing bracket to suit.

Bit earl next year I'm going to buy a caravan and so will be changing my car for something more capable.

First thoughts are Land/range Rover but I hear lots of good reports and equal amounts of bad.

Various post on Youtube about various Lexus vehicles that may be suitable but I reckon you guys would, through experience, know what to look for.

Really not looking forward to selling my IS250 at all but such is life eh.

MPG and towing limits are the main thing of course, but I would rather stick with Lexus if Possible.

[AWC]

I've towed a caravan with a RX for the past 15 years and have no complaints.

[johnatg]

I don't see why you shouldn't tow a caravan. Just check the weight limits in the Owners manual. 

The car has adequate power and torque and it would be way better than a Landie or a Rangie. 

[Zuke]

2 hours ago, johnatg said:

I don't see why you shouldn't tow a caravan. Just check the weight limits in the Owners manual. 

The car has adequate power and torque and it would be way better than a Landie or a Rangie. 

Hiya John. Are you referring to the IS250 ? 

[Zuke]

3 hours ago, AWC said:

I've towed a caravan with a RX for the past 15 years and have no complaints.

Hiya Alex, what sort of mileage you getting

 

[Linas.P]

3 hours ago, johnatg said:

I don't see why you shouldn't tow a caravan. Just check the weight limits in the Owners manual. 

The car has adequate power and torque and it would be way better than a Landie or a Rangie. 

Yeah... I think for IS250 it is like 600kg limit (from memory), so indeed it is not they best choice of the car to use. Not that it can't be used, but just not great.

@Zuke - Landrovers in principle capable, but they are just horribly unreliable, not a joke neighbour bought Discovery, was very happy for 3 months and then engine seized. So I would not recommend, all sort of issues, electrical, mechanical, computer issues, besides you most likely going to get diesel, at which point it will not be ULEZ compliant and why have limitations like that. Plus you don't want "Luton to happen" to your car, so perhaps just stay away from that brand altogether.

What about Lexus RX 400h, they would cost about the same as IS250, so you likely would be able to change the car without paying anything to upgrade. Or if you want to upgrade then RX450h from little bit later years. For MPG they are not amazing, despite being hybrids they are still large cars, so I would say ~32-38MPG would be tops, when towing caravan probably add 20% more consumption. But in grand scheme of thing they would be comparable to other SUVs. Probably will not match diesel Discovery that could do 40-50MPG, but not having to replace seized engine is quite positive!

[Zuke]

34 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Yeah... I think for IS250 it is like 600kg limit (from memory), so indeed it is not they best choice of the car to use. Not that it can't be used, but just not great.

@Zuke - Landrovers in principle capable, but they are just horribly unreliable, not a joke neighbour bought Discovery, was very happy for 3 months and then engine seized. So I would not recommend, all sort of issues, electrical, mechanical, computer issues, besides you most likely going to get diesel, at which point it will not be ULEZ compliant and why have limitations like that. Plus you don't want "Luton to happen" to your car, so perhaps just stay away from that brand altogether.

What about Lexus RX 400h, they would cost about the same as IS250, so you likely would be able to change the car without paying anything to upgrade. Or if you want to upgrade then RX450h from little bit later years. For MPG they are not amazing, despite being hybrids they are still large cars, so I would say ~32-38MPG would be tops, when towing caravan probably add 20% more consumption. But in grand scheme of thing they would be comparable to other SUVs. Probably will not match diesel Discovery that could do 40-50MPG, but not having to replace seized engine is quite positive!

 

34 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Yeah... I think for IS250 it is like 600kg limit (from memory), so indeed it is not they best choice of the car to use. Not that it can't be used, but just not great.

@Zuke - Landrovers in principle capable, but they are just horribly unreliable, not a joke neighbour bought Discovery, was very happy for 3 months and then engine seized. So I would not recommend, all sort of issues, electrical, mechanical, computer issues, besides you most likely going to get diesel, at which point it will not be ULEZ compliant and why have limitations like that. Plus you don't want "Luton to happen" to your car, so perhaps just stay away from that brand altogether.

What about Lexus RX 400h, they would cost about the same as IS250, so you likely would be able to change the car without paying anything to upgrade. Or if you want to upgrade then RX450h from little bit later years. For MPG they are not amazing, despite being hybrids they are still large cars, so I would say ~32-38MPG would be tops, when towing caravan probably add 20% more consumption. But in grand scheme of thing they would be comparable to other SUVs. Probably will not match diesel Discovery that could do 40-50MPG, but not having to replace seized engine is quite positive!

Hi Linas, From questions I have posted here and in other places I have always been given to believe the the IS250 is not recommended for any form of towing. An earlier post from Johnatg

"I don't see why you shouldn't tow a caravan. Just check the weight limits in the Owners manual. 

The car has adequate power and torque and it would be way better than a Landie or a Rangie. " got me looking in the owners manual. All I can find on towing is how to switch off the parking sensors.

Looking in the log book it gives 1500 braked and 560 unbraked.  I don't know just yet how that translates to the size of van I'm looking for but I have always thought the IS250 a bit underpowered myself.

The RX 400h is a good choice for what I'm thinking I need. 

 

[Linas.P]

Yes - I would agree, IS250 in itself is borderline alright, never felt uncomfortable with it's power, but never felt like it has "plenty" either, not the car which has "power to spare" in my opinion. So double the weight of the car and suddenly I think it would be rather underpowered, especially on low-end torque. Here is where diesel, or even better hybrid would be ideal. 

Yeah - I had unbraked figure ~600kg in my head. For braked as far as I understand you would need to somehow rig the connection for the trailer and car, I mean you would need to do it anyway for stop lights etc. but adding braking juts further complicates it. 

RX400h has about the same power from petrol engine alone (208hp), but electric motor adds another 64hp for total of 272hp, more importantly it add like extra 200Nm or torque from stand still, double that of IS250. 

In conclusion, I believe towing with IS250 is possible, but not recommended. Stressing that engine out probably would as well result in worse fuel consumption that larger car would get.

[J Henderson]

One of the German cars with a 3.0 diesel engine would be my pick - A4 Quattro or BMW 335d. My personal choice would be an Avant/Touring model.

[Linas.P]

German 3L diesels are indeed very good. If I would ever had to own diesel (quite unlikely) then that would be my pick. 

[AWC]

14 hours ago, Zuke said:

Hiya Alex, what sort of mileage you getting

 

The caravan is 1500kg and towing with my previous RX400h I used to get about 20mpg on a 160mile trip, with the RX450h+ and a fully charged Battery I get 48mpg on the same trip.

[MrTrendizzle]

13 hours ago, AWC said:

The caravan is 1500kg and towing with my previous RX400h I used to get about 20mpg on a 160mile trip, with the RX450h+ and a fully charged battery I get 48mpg on the same trip.

Quick towing question: The 1500kg weight is that based on the trailer+Load on a weighbridge or is that taken from the cars sticker claiming it's weight?  

I was tempted to grab a small trailer to put a highly stripped out track car for weekend fun but don't particularly want to buy a new car. The stripped car and trailer weigh under 1500kg but i'm worried that if i get pulled and it's the original weight of the car with all seats, carpets etc... i'll be over by like 60kg but on the weighbridge i'm under. How is the weight calculated?

[AWC]

1 hour ago, MrTrendizzle said:

Quick towing question: The 1500kg weight is that based on the trailer+Load on a weighbridge or is that taken from the cars sticker claiming it's weight?  

I was tempted to grab a small trailer to put a highly stripped out track car for weekend fun but don't particularly want to buy a new car. The stripped car and trailer weigh under 1500kg but i'm worried that if i get pulled and it's the original weight of the car with all seats, carpets etc... i'll be over by like 60kg but on the weighbridge i'm under. How is the weight calculated?

The weight is based on the manufacturers plate value plus the load weight rounded up.

[MrTrendizzle]

17 minutes ago, AWC said:

The weight is based on the manufacturers plate value plus the load weight rounded up.

So the plate value being of the track car and trailer being 60kg more than the cars towing capacity would screw me then correct? Regardless if i had removed every interior part lowering the weight within limits?  

EDIT: Just to clarify the track car weighs 1500kg which is the towing capacity of the IS250. But the plated weight of the track car is 1560kg so regardless of the track cars actual weight after stripping i wouldn't be able to trailer this If the trailer hypothetically weighed nothing.

[AWC]

1 hour ago, MrTrendizzle said:

So the plate value being of the track car and trailer being 60kg more than the cars towing capacity would screw me then correct? Regardless if i had removed every interior part lowering the weight within limits?  

EDIT: Just to clarify the track car weighs 1500kg which is the towing capacity of the IS250. But the plated weight of the track car is 1560kg so regardless of the track cars actual weight after stripping i wouldn't be able to trailer this If the trailer hypothetically weighed nothing.

The plate value is the manufacturers unladen weight of the trailer then you need to add the weight of the load to give you the total towing weight which must not exceed the towing capacity of the car which in your case is 1500kg. So technically, you could tow this weight with your car and be legal but it's advisable to have a good margin for error, say 10 to 20%. You also need to take care you do not exceed the nose weight capacity of the tow ball for your car which is the static weight of the trailer and load measured at the tow hitch.

[MrTrendizzle]

Ow sorry. That's where i make the mistake. When you said plate value i thought you meant the value of the car (on the trailer) and not the trailer itself.  

So if the trailer has a plate value unladen weight of 500kg and the weight of my track car was 1000kg (regardless of factory weight but actual weight) giving a total weight of 1500kg and my car pulling the load has a tow capacity of 1500kg that's completely fine?  

As you said margin for error of 10-20% (150-300kg) along with the towbar that's bolted to my car having a rating of 1500kg.  

Sorry for the questions. There's tons of info online but never a concrete answer which makes the false info harder to ignore scaring me a little as i would hate to lose my licence due to an error or worse kill someone for overloading parts like the towball as that's something i never even considered.  

Thank you so much for helping clear everything up. Now fingers crossed i can find a decent braked trailer for a decent price. Also need to understand how braked trailers work... Are they electric or does the tow hitch press in to the trailer which applies brakes when the driven car slows down?

[AWC]

8 hours ago, MrTrendizzle said:

Ow sorry. That's where i make the mistake. When you said plate value i thought you meant the value of the car (on the trailer) and not the trailer itself.  

So if the trailer has a plate value unladen weight of 500kg and the weight of my track car was 1000kg (regardless of factory weight but actual weight) giving a total weight of 1500kg and my car pulling the load has a tow capacity of 1500kg that's completely fine?  

As you said margin for error of 10-20% (150-300kg) along with the towbar that's bolted to my car having a rating of 1500kg.  

Sorry for the questions. There's tons of info online but never a concrete answer which makes the false info harder to ignore scaring me a little as i would hate to lose my licence due to an error or worse kill someone for overloading parts like the towball as that's something i never even considered.  

Thank you so much for helping clear everything up. Now fingers crossed i can find a decent braked trailer for a decent price. Also need to understand how braked trailers work... Are they electric or does the tow hitch press in to the trailer which applies brakes when the driven car slows down?

1500kg would be legal but hopefully you can find combo that is a little lighter to give you some margin.

Braked trailers usually operate manually, when the car brakes the weight of the trailer pushing on the tow ball automatically applies the trailer brakes. The key to good towing is anticipation and gentle braking and acceleration.

One thing you may not be aware of, if you passed your driving test after 1st January 1997 you don't automatically have the right to tow up to the 8,250kg maximum which many people are now aware of. If you're pulled over by the police while towing, the first thing they will check is you authority to tow the weight you're towing. There have been a number of changes to the rules since then which you can find here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a-trailer-or-caravan-with-a-car-from-autumn-2021

[MrTrendizzle]

2 hours ago, AWC said:

1500kg would be legal but hopefully you can find combo that is a little lighter to give you some margin.

Braked trailers usually operate manually, when the car brakes the weight of the trailer pushing on the tow ball automatically applies the trailer brakes. The key to good towing is anticipation and gentle braking and acceleration.

One thing you may not be aware of, if you passed your driving test after 1st January 1997 you don't automatically have the right to tow up to the 8,250kg maximum which many people are now aware of. If you're pulled over by the police while towing, the first thing they will check is you authority to tow the weight you're towing. There have been a number of changes to the rules since then which you can find here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a-trailer-or-caravan-with-a-car-from-autumn-2021

I passed in 2004? The new law/rule change allows me to tow a trailer as far as i understand where as before it was limited to 750kg single axle with the total combined weight of the car i'm driving+Trailer/load not exceeding 3500kg. With the latest rule change i "should" be allowed to tow a trailer up to a maximum of 3500kg so long as it dosn't exceed the total towing capacity of the vehicle i'm driving (560kg-1500kg)since the DVLA has updated my licence with the B+E entitlement and the weight of the trailer/load should not exceed in my case the Lexus IS250 unladen weight which is 1570kg?.  

If i was to tow a trailer with my Lexus the total combined weight should be a maximum of 3070kg which is less than the 3500kg limit which i believe i still need to abide by regardless of the new trailer law. I wouldn't however be allowed to drive a flatbed lorry or VW Transporter with same load as that pushes me over the 3500kg limit.  

Again i can't thank you enough for helping explain the rules and give me a great understanding of where i stand in terms of what i can/can't tow.  

It's time for me to visit the local supermarket carpark and get practicing reversing and learn to control the trailer correctly along with getting a feel for the braking/accelerating.

[AWC]

2 hours ago, MrTrendizzle said:

I passed in 2004? The new law/rule change allows me to tow a trailer as far as i understand where as before it was limited to 750kg single axle with the total combined weight of the car i'm driving+Trailer/load not exceeding 3500kg. With the latest rule change i "should" be allowed to tow a trailer up to a maximum of 3500kg so long as it dosn't exceed the total towing capacity of the vehicle i'm driving (560kg-1500kg)since the DVLA has updated my licence with the B+E entitlement and the weight of the trailer/load should not exceed in my case the Lexus IS250 unladen weight which is 1570kg?.  

If i was to tow a trailer with my Lexus the total combined weight should be a maximum of 3070kg which is less than the 3500kg limit which i believe i still need to abide by regardless of the new trailer law. I wouldn't however be allowed to drive a flatbed lorry or VW Transporter with same load as that pushes me over the 3500kg limit.  

Again i can't thank you enough for helping explain the rules and give me a great understanding of where i stand in terms of what i can/can't tow.  

It's time for me to visit the local supermarket carpark and get practicing reversing and learn to control the trailer correctly along with getting a feel for the braking/accelerating.

You're welcome, glad I could help!