New RC owner advice ???

[Dibo201]

Hi all, been lurking on this forum for a while now and have finally purchased a facelifted Sonic titanium RC recently and am loving the car so far.

Just wanted some advice on cleaning the car body and alloys from fellow owners. I've never owned a 'luxury' vehicle before so decided I'll actually try and take good care of this one.

Any best practices or specific cleaning products would be much appreciated 😎

 

[Linas.P]

This question really belongs in detailing section as there is not RC specific advice. Sonic Titanium is one of the easiest colours to clean, generally grey cars don't show dirt and scratches as much and metallic paints hide them even better (In this case almost pearlescent), so it should not be difficult to keep the car looking great.

That said - I much appreciate your desire to take good care of your car, that is definitely good attitude to have, but I just want to warn you here. You can easily damage your car more than needed when detailing/cleaning if you do it wrong, it is very easy to cause so called "love marks". So the answer - unless you really want to dive deep into detailing, just regularly washing your car will be 90% as good as it gets. 

So to start with, you need to ask yourself a question - how much you really want to take care of it? You can certainly wash car yourself, but I can assure you that 80% of the owners would make more damage washing their car themselves than they would by just taking it to regular automatic or hand wash. In other words - for 80% of owners just taking the car to car wash every 2-4 weeks will be sufficient and the car will look good after 5 years of ownership. Will it have scratches - yes, washing = scratching, but that is just inevitable.

If you really want to beat say handwash in terms of minimising scratches to the paint, then you need quite a lot of knowledge and experience. I would even say RC is probably wrong car to practice on... because it has a lot of small and trickly details, shapes and Lexus paint in general is very soft (so easy to scratch).

Next question - do you own anything for washing at the moment e.g. pressure washer? How much you looking to invest int into the tools? and what you looking to achieve? 

Because my basic set-up would look something like this:

• Pressure washer, snow foam lance would be nice
• 2 buckets with grit guard
• 50 general purpose MF cloths
• 5 thick drying MF cloths 
• 5 Window MF cloths
• 5 car wash mitts ideally MF or soft wool
• 3 wheel woollies
• 1 tyre brush
• Set of detailing brushes (usually like 6 in the set)
• 2 pressure sprayers
• Shampoo concentrate (Bilt Hamber has great concentrate, but others are aslo good Gyeon, Gtechniq, Koch Chemie etc.)
• 5L of APC, that is chemical that you can use basically for everything just adjust the concentration so just buy bulk and keep it (again Bilt Hamber Surfex HD or Koch Chemie GS are two of my favourites)
• Some protection - I would advise ceramic spray nowadays, unless you want to go into full ceramic, but that is next level-up (even something like Autoglym Rapid Ceramic would be fine for this, generally I avoid Autoglym and TrutleWax, but current generation ceramic sprays are really good)
• Glass cleaner (I use Koch Chemie spray, but Sonax is also good)

Specialty items which you may need from time to time:

• bug remover (explanation in the name)
• glue and tar remover (explanation in the name)
• "bleeding" fall out spray (maybe useful twice a year to move have brake dust that APC can't remove)
• rust inhibitor (good product to prevent rusting, especially on brake callipers, but also suspension, requires application once every 3 years, but can be done annually) 

I get my detailing supplies mostly from https://www.in2detailing.co.uk (you can also use discount code DW10), but sometimes I find better price in amazon, eBay, sometimes directly from Gyeon, Gtechniq or Dodo Juice (i2D does not sell their products).

My cleaning routine would look something like this - pressure wash wheels and lose dirt from body if needed > spray wheels with APC using pressure sprayer > scrub wheels with woollies and tyre with brush > spray car with foam > spray with APC and agitate around badges and grilles with detailing brush of appropriate size > pressure wash the car again > then onto contact wash with 2 buckets (1 for shampoo and 1 for rinsing), dunk mitt into rinsing bucket, rinse well, dunk it into shampoo bucket and wash the car from the roof down. I like to use at least 3 mitts for this (1 for upper half, 1 for lower half, 1 around arches, bottom of the sills, bumpers etc) > pressure wash for third time > wait for few minutes for majority of water to run down spray panel with ceramic spray (most of them are formulated as drying aids and water spot removers), wipe with thick drying MF cloth then buff with MF cloth, go top to bottom and around the car doing panel by panel > clean the wheels same way with dedicated MF cloth for wheels Autoglym ceramic spray can be used on tyres, but you can also buy dedicated tyre dressing (something like Gtechniq Trim & Tyres, or Gyeon)> finally clean windows and mirrors inside and out. I would probably start with interior, but you have not asked about it and it requires separate explanation.

As you can see - quite a few steps involved, but I would argue if you not doing at least that, then it is not worth even starting to wash car yourself. I guess the it is possible to buy just the ceramic spray (detailing spray) and after taking your car to hand wash finish some spots that they miss yourself, but then again you basically not washing your car, just finishing the details. Could it be done without pressure washer - yes, technically you can do it all with just 2 buckets, but then I reckon you will scratch car more than hand wash.

When else... if anything that touches paint falls on ground, it goes to the bin, be it 80p MF cloth or £10 drying cloth or wash mitt, if you try to use it again you will scratch the paint all over. I tend to use MF cloths few times and the rotate them down (top half of the car first, then bottom of the car, then wheels and then maybe I keep it around just as a rag). Never wash car in direct sunlight (water spotting, dried chemicals etc. are not good).

[Jgtcracer]

@Linas.P that’s quite a response, couldn’t agree more….

@Dibo201 I’d suggest doing a pre wash snow foam and two bucket method as mentioned above as a good start…. Paint correction and ceramic coating would be my way to go if you want to go deeper but expect to clean every weekend it if you want the car to look it’s best all summer!

 

[Dibo201]

@Linas.P and @Jgtcracer appreciate the detailed responses. 

Yes, I'm keen to actually start looking after this car and learning some professional cleaning tips to do things properly.

I don't have access to a pressure washer at the moment as I live in apartments for the time being.

However, I will find a workaround. The car was well looked after when I purchased it and I love the design so much that it's important to me to keep the vehicle looking crisp all year round! So far I've only used prewash and gave it a rinse to remove excess dirt but wanted to deep clean it inside and out over the Easter break.

Thanks for the overview of your tools and processes, definitely helpful.

[MNMJ]

Lexus have recently introduced something called ProTect. It offers a "ceramic hardened" coating, wheel protection and something for the interior too. They can split the package, and I was offered the exterior protection for £450 for my RC.

I can't vouch for it, but having been quoted nearly £1000 for G-Techniq ceramic coating, I plan to do more investigating. Having read Linas' comprehensive post, I'm wondering if this is just a ceramic spray though?

 

[Linas.P]

It is quite difficult without pressure washer. Basically for cleaning you need two key tools to use for cleaning are pressure washer for exterior and vacuum cleaner for interior. 

You can get around the pressure washer somewhat if you have "jet wash" close to you, that is what I used to do. Go there is more quiet time, maybe early morning or late evening (most importantly not during the day, both because it is busy and because you down want to be in the sun when washing the car). Then I would spray car with APC (all purpose cleaner - that works well as TFR/traffic film remover), wait few minutes for it to mostly soak all the dirt and then pressure wash the car, sadly you have to be quick, they usually only give like 2 minutes, 3 minutes if you lucky. But that is enough to knock down most of lose dirt. Then if nobody is waiting in the queue I would spray wheels with "bleeding" wheel cleaner (basically it is acid that dissolves rust), brush the wheels, tyres and wheel arches, then go over the wheels again with APC, especially around callipers (the APC is usually base, so it nicely neutralises acid in the wheel cleaner), go over badges, grilles, window mouldings etc with detailing brush and APC... basically to knock all dirt that may be stuck in small gaps. And then go over with pressure washer again. It is not ideal as it costs something like £4-6, for just couple of minutes with pressure washer, but that is better than nothing. 

Just one tip - never use the brush in jet washes, remember the first rule, anything that ever touched the ground should never ouch the paint... and that brush has been on the ground more times than anyone could remember. 

And once you knocked all lose dirt you can come back home and just continue all the steps with two buckets as before. But even doing "2 buckets technique" without prewash it will just cause more scratches than hand wash around the corner.

Then you will need to consider interior cleaning, you don't need to be as careful in interior and there are less steps, but they are important as well.  

10 minutes ago, MNMJ said:

Lexus have recently introduced something called ProTect.

Having read Linas' comprehensive post, I'm wondering if this is just a ceramic spray though?

It is decent product, the problem is that for ceramic coating 90% of work is in preparation and 10% is in applying it. The problem is that for £450 Lexus will be skipping that first part which is 90% of end result.

So it isn't just ceramic spray, it is professional product, perhaps not the best in the market, but decent enough. Problem is that it will look shaite if not applied properly and Lexus just going to give it to their showroom cleaner to apply and it will never look right.

I can put Gtechniq ceramic coating for £40 anytime on somewhat clean car (because that is how much C1 costs), that is really not complicated at all, but it will look shaite, because for ceramic coating (that cures and makes proper had coating) in particular car has to be applied on car which polished to perfection, otherwise any scratches or old waxes/coatings etc. left on pain would be highlighted and just look even worse if car isn't polished prior. 

So £1000 I assume is for at least 2 stages polish, Gtechniq coating is just last step in process. 

[Dibo201]

Thanks @Linas.P the jetwash option was my preference as there's one nearby which is usually quite quiet, so I'll have plenty of time to thoroughly pressure was the car. 

I definitely won't be touching my car with those jetwash brushes though. They're always filthy and full of stones.

Appreciate the feedback from everyone, I'll definitely be taking it onboard.

[GMB]

I have not washed a car for about 10 years. I take the car to the local hand wash ( about £8 ) for a quick wash'n'scratch.

They have a method of washing the really dirty gritty lower areas and then use the same unwashed/unrinsed cloth on the bonnet and roof and sides. I like the mottled areas where they missed a bit and the contrasting filthy parts of the wheels that never get touched.  It seems beyond reason to wash the car too much when you see the state of the underneath areas. I prefer the good old days when the engine gearbox and diff leaked oil everywhere and kept the underneath of the car protected from salt and grime.

[MNMJ]

On 3/21/2024 at 1:23 PM, Linas.P said:

It is decent product, the problem is that for ceramic coating 90% of work is in preparation and 10% is in applying it. The problem is that for £450 Lexus will be skipping that first part which is 90% of end result.

So it isn't just ceramic spray, it is professional product, perhaps not the best in the market, but decent enough. Problem is that it will look shaite if not applied properly and Lexus just going to give it to their showroom cleaner to apply and it will never look right.

I can put Gtechniq ceramic coating for £40 anytime on somewhat clean car (because that is how much C1 costs), that is really not complicated at all, but it will look shaite, because for ceramic coating (that cures and makes proper had coating) in particular car has to be applied on car which polished to perfection, otherwise any scratches or old waxes/coatings etc. left on pain would be highlighted and just look even worse if car isn't polished prior. 

So £1000 I assume is for at least 2 stages polish, Gtechniq coating is just last step in process. 

Very helpful. Thanks Linas.

Yes, the £1000 route for Gtechniq included proper preparation. I suspect it will not be done as well by Lexus

[Linas.P]

13 minutes ago, MNMJ said:

Very helpful. Thanks Linas.

Yes, the £1000 route for Gtechniq included proper preparation. I suspect it will not be done as well by Lexus

Honestly, Lexus would do absolutelly no preparation, I am not assuming I know. They would assume your car paint is "perfect", because the product is designed for new cars (even thought new car paint is usually nowhere near perfect) and their prep will involve washing the car (the part which I always ask them to skip during the service as they are just not good at it), then panel wipe (basically 70% isopropyl) and then application. They certainly are not hiring detailer to come over and polish the car, there is no way anyone would bother for £450.

And when I said - they going to give it to their showroom cleaner... I was not joking either. This is literally what my local Lexus does - they have cleaning agency hired to clean the showroom, same guys wash cars, same guys would be applying the ceramic coating. No disrespect for cleaners, everyone have to do what they have to do, but car detailers they are not, even just washing the car they scratch it way more than even worse hand wash in my area. 

£1000 is a bit much to be honest, unless it is based on car inspection and your car is really rough. It used to be around £500 for "restoration detail", that is if your car was never detailed before. It would include few stages of polishing, the ceramic coating then costs £100-£200. Depending on area +/- £100. So we are talking ~£500-£800. If your paint is particularly bad, deep scratches all around, you are asking for stone chip removal etc. Yes they can price that on top, but usual price as I said should be around £650, then they wash your car and they may call you back and say "look here is the deal, now that we could see the car clean there are way more scratches etc. We can proceed with standard detail, but we may not able to take all the scratches in 2 stages, if you want to wet sand, and polish them out, then it will be extra X amount, else we do bet we could, but there may be some scratches left". My other guess - they may say "up-to £1000" as sort of the limit of how much it could cost without seeing the car, so ideally you should bring the car over to them for wash and then ask for estimate, because £1000 seems little bit arbitrary to me.

P.S. - I have looked at few detailing places around me and it seems the price had climbed up a little bit since, so my estimates may be little bit 2019-ish. But even then I have found few places that would do 2-stages + ceramic coating for £600 on "Large" car. But seems generally prices have climbed ~£100, so you could say up-to £900 is realistic.

[Juicedrinker]

On 3/21/2024 at 1:13 PM, MNMJ said:

Lexus have recently introduced something called ProTect. It offers a "ceramic hardened" coating, wheel protection and something for the interior too. They can split the package, and I was offered the exterior protection for £450 for my RC.

I can't vouch for it, but having been quoted nearly £1000 for G-Techniq ceramic coating, I plan to do more investigating. Having read Linas' comprehensive post, I'm wondering if this is just a ceramic spray though?

 

I'm into detailing and a work colleague of mine does concours detailing he just spent 3 full days polishing, ceramic coating etc (AFTER a complete washing process and decontamination process using fallout removal products, clay bar etc) on his RX8 in one of your units.  He uses paint depth tools to check and utilise the appropriate products for machine polishing, removes all decals, wheels so that he can access calipers insides of alloys, parking sensors on bumpers, masks plastics, rubber and even removed his rear spoiler.  Obviously you would not expect Lexus to go that far BUT I can guarantee that if you get any form of main dealer detailing done it will be a half arsed job and no comparison at all to a professional detailer.  There is no way at all that Lexus will have the car moved off site to a professional detailer with at least a day of pre preparation work completed before the ceramic coating is applied.  The preparatory work is absolutely critical on any car and if not done properly then any wax or ceramic coating applied will be poor and whilst may look ok / good to the untrained eye it will not gleam as it should and above all not last anywhere near as long as it should.  There is an intensive amount of labour in doing the job fully and hence why the cost is so high.  I remember when an ex had bought a 3 year old Black BMW5 series from a dealer and she paid c£500 for their version of special paint protection back in 2005.  I dropped in at the dealer a day before it was due for collection as has a spare Alfa key for the one that we had traded in. The sales guy said their detailer was only half way through out back but I was welcome to take a look.  I walked around the back to watch a lad working on it who was very young.  Cigarette in one hand, headphones on power washing the car, then sponge into a bucket washing a wheel, then straight up onto wheel arches, paintwork and back to wheels.  Sponge in bucket and back out onto paintwork (no two bucket method used so dirt / grit put back onto paint).  This is the person who was supposed to be applying the special paint protection.  I tapped him on shoulder to stop him as he couldn't hear me and went to see the sales guy.  I told him to remove the special protection off my fiancees invoice and I would do the car myself and I got her over to the centre and we took the car as it was and I then dealt with it at home.  A few years later went to get my Mazda from its annual service and again a muppet was washing it and more worringly pressure washing really close up all around the convertible roof seals and the rear, the next day I had water inside me nearside rear light cluster, boot and behind the passenger seat.  From that day forward I have refused all car dealers offering to wash my car for free as part of the service.  I use specific polishes and waxes and don't want cheap products with high PH values reducing or ruining the effectiveness of my work.        

[Juicedrinker]

On 3/23/2024 at 11:18 AM, Linas.P said:

their prep will involve washing the car (the part which I always ask them to skip during the service as they are just not good at it

Ha ha you are the same as me.... I will never ever let any dealer wash my car following a service and they are always surprised that I refuse.  I used to visit a local Aston Martin, Bentley and Lamborghini dealership to collect parts for one of my customers.  That is the only place I have ever witnessed a really high standard of car cleaning.  I had a chat with the two people who were working on a Bentley that had just been serviced, they had an undercover dedicated area, with a unit attached.  They had so much equipment available like air dryers, blowers, paint depth checking tools they even used deionized water; They wore gloves and were clearly meticulous.  They told me that before they worked on anyone's car they requested to know what work had been done on it previously and ideally spoke directly with that detailer concerned.  They then used product that had no negative effect on the product that was applied on the car.  There were two staff working at a time all day, 6 days per week.  Obviously the cost was built / hidden in the no doubt exorbitant servicing or repair work bill but at least they were extremely professional.      

[Linas.P]

3 hours ago, Juicedrinker said:

Ha ha you are the same as me.... I will never ever let any dealer wash my car following a service and they are always surprised that I refuse.  I used to visit a local Aston Martin, Bentley and Lamborghini dealership to collect parts for one of my customers.  That is the only place I have ever witnessed a really high standard of car cleaning.  I had a chat with the two people who were working on a Bentley that had just been serviced, they had an undercover dedicated area, with a unit attached.  They had so much equipment available like air dryers, blowers, paint depth checking tools they even used deionized water; They wore gloves and were clearly meticulous.  They told me that before they worked on anyone's car they requested to know what work had been done on it previously and ideally spoke directly with that detailer concerned.  They then used product that had no negative effect on the product that was applied on the car.  There were two staff working at a time all day, 6 days per week.  Obviously the cost was built / hidden in the no doubt exorbitant servicing or repair work bill but at least they were extremely professional.      

Yeah - that sounds proper, however Lexus is really not like that, Dealer local to me has agreement with local hand wash, nut sure what they pay per car, but it can't be more than £2... so they literally just take car to scratch wash. And other dealer I used had dedicated washing area, but basically they just hire cleaning agency and literally the same guy finished moping the floor and then goes to wash the cars. When I want to scratch my car I can do it myself, don't need Lexus to include that into the service 😄 

[MNMJ]

Thank you Charles and Linas; Lexus ProTect is now firmly off my shopping list.

This is one of the reasons I appreciate this forum so much

[LenT]

On 3/19/2024 at 3:59 PM, Dibo201 said:

Any best practices or specific cleaning products would be much appreciated

Unless you know what has already been done to the car, I’d be inclined to start with the finish.  Find a good local Detailer and have the car professionally Detailed with a ceramic coating. That involves baking on the ceramic coating with infrared heaters - and with the best will in the world, no home applied product is going to match that.

That ceramic coat is an upfront investment that should last for many years and all you need do then is:

a.  Avoid car washes and the guys that work in supermarket car parks.

b.  Invest in the products listed by Linas in his first post and follow the snow foam, pressure washer, two bucket, microfibre mitt and towel wash routine.  Ideally, using the maintenance products that match the ceramic coating.

Of course, if you really want the best possible exterior protection, you could consider the application of Paint Protection Film - but that’s a whole new level of investment.

https://www.huntsmiths.co.uk

[Linas.P]

11 hours ago, LenT said:

best possible exterior protection, you could consider the application of Paint Protection Film - but that’s a whole new level of investment.

Highly recommended for front bumper and headlights at very least. Sadly, on most used cars it is already moon-cratered so it is too late, but on new RC that is probably the best way. Next step would be entire front + mirrors + door edges + rear arches.

Second big sad, I remember the times when front of the car protection was £150, entire car PPF was maybe £400... now some companies charge as much as £2000 for PFFing the car... it is ridiculous. Although, that said RC front bumper is very intricate piece so I would expect to pay more for it to be done.

[LenT]

22 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Highly recommended for front bumper…

Completely agree!

When I had my car Detailed and ceramic coated, the one thing I now regret is that I didn’t have PPF applied to the front bumper.

It’s the most vulnerable area of the car to be exposed to road chips.  Although the few that exist are mere pin pricks, they could have been avoided completely.  In hindsight, I now consider that the saving I made has proved to be a false economy.