Is220d Fuel Economy Fixes?

[Harrydavy]

Here we are again then!

After Fridays re-visit (inc new alloys!) 31000 on the clock. Tomorrow off to Swansea, Thursday Lands End, and totalling 950miles.

The ECU fix does not work, so I have wasted another 2 days of my life and this car.

I have to say I feel well and truly ripped off! Lexus Leicester refuse to do the complete jet swap and then last week I read on here that Lexus Exeter are for other owners! :tsktsk:

I went looking at 320D yesterday but I am 12m into a 30m pcp so no escape there then!

Any ideas????

Smile, grin and bear it...

That's what I've resorted to. Oh well, another few more years, then I can afford to defect as Alan has!

PS - Harry - whereabouts in Leics are you?

Whetstone

Happy Days EH? :shutit:

[Matus]

It must be the only diesel I know then which needs to be used in a lower gear to get decent economy...and

I think it's because IS has a combination of unwanted characteristics:

1.weight - the car is heavy. I think it's heaviest in its class

2.low rpm responsivness - we know that in low revs the performance is lower than it should be

3.gearing - IS has the longest gearing not just in its class, but from all cars, I think!

when driving in low revs: you need, for example, to accelerate - you press the pedal. You expect the acceleration, the feeling, so you are pressing the pedal - more and more, until the revs hit at least 1800rpm. But until you get to 1800, you burn lot of diesel with small effect - so the consumption rises. The same happens, when you go to very moderate hill (so moderate, you don't notice). To keep the speed you press the pedal deeper, but the strenght in low revs is not enough so more oil goes in...

From my experience the best for economy is to accelerate between 1500 and 2000rpm and when driving constatnly - the revs I wrote few posts ago.

one more thing - copied from toyota forum:

Some of us on there have the IS220d, which essentially shares the 177bhp oiler engine, and are suffering from particularly poor economy - on average combined cycles of approx 35-42mpg, no matter how we drive them. This included purely motorway runs at 70mph, where we see at most 47-48mpg. (gov't figures are 36 urban, 44.8 combined and 52 extra urban).

now I don't know whether our web is wrong, or your web is wrong.

Your web shows the figures as you stated, with extra consumption only for sport version.

However our web states the higher consumption not just for sport, but for luxury too. Which is I think logical, because luxury and sport versions are heavier than base and have wider tires, too.

So I think that our web is correct and yours is wrong, That's more logical to me.

You should ask the dealer, how come in UK the IS luxury has combined consumption 45mpg and the same car for Slovakia only 38?!

And don't let yourself cheat, that new luxury versions have the sport ratio, because before when luxury had the standard ratio, it was mentioned that equipment levels with 18" rims have the same consumpion as sport package.

here are the links:

UK site:

http://www.lexus.co.uk/lexus_cars/is_new/i...UEL+CONSUMPTION

Slovak site:

http://www.lexus.sk/lexus_cars/is_new/is22...cifications.asp

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

So I think that our web is correct and yours is wrong, That's more logical to me.

You should ask the dealer, how come in UK the IS luxury has combined consumption 45mpg and the same car for Slovakia only 38?!

And don't let yourself cheat, that new luxury versions have the sport ratio, because before when luxury had the standard ratio, it was mentioned that equipment levels with 18" rims have the same consumpion as sport package.

here are the links:

UK site:

http://www.lexus.co.uk/lexus_cars/is_new/i...UEL+CONSUMPTION

Slovak site:

http://www.lexus.sk/lexus_cars/is_new/is22...cifications.asp

Matus - thank you for this. I think it does show that the same car has different fuel consumption figures in different countries, and that could be down to accuracy of the tests, but also that the tests could be completed to different specs in each country. I would have thought that it should be the same, due to euro IV/V compliance. I am not an expert in this field, but hopefully someone can clear this one up?

By the way, my Slovak is much worse than your English, I could just about make out the Slovak site!!

PS - I was told recently by someone in the trade that the fuel consumption on cars is suffering generally due to Euro Compliance rules. The particulate cleaners make the diesels less economical, but have not been able to prove this. Does anyone know?

[Matus]

PS - I was told recently by someone in the trade that the fuel consumption on cars is suffering generally due to Euro Compliance rules. The particulate cleaners make the diesels less economical, but have not been able to prove this. Does anyone know?

1. Everything what stays in the free flow of exhaust gas lowers the engine power (this is valid only for turbo charged engines, it is different for naturally aspirated). The exhaust gas has to be out as quick as possible and catalysators slow the flow.

2. The best for the engine is to get to the intake as much oxygen as possible. However, we have EGR in our engines (exhaust gas recyclation) - part of exhaust gas goes back to the intake - this also lowers the power.

With less power we have to press the accelarator more - this means higher consumption.

One more thing - if I understood correctly, the 5th injector in D4D Cleanpower is used only for lowering the emissions, it has nothing to do with the power. So we are injecting the diesel just for emissions. How much? 5% - 10% ? I really don't know, but I think it will be around this number. This is the direct expense to the emissions.

At the moment the D4D clean power is the only diesel engine which complies with Euro V. When the TDI, TDCI, HDI, CDI.... and also beemers will comply with Euro V, their consumption will match ours, trust me.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

PS - I was told recently by someone in the trade that the fuel consumption on cars is suffering generally due to Euro Compliance rules. The particulate cleaners make the diesels less economical, but have not been able to prove this. Does anyone know?

1. Everything what stays in the free flow of exhaust gas lowers the engine power (this is valid only for turbo charged engines, it is different for naturally aspirated). The exhaust gas has to be out as quick as possible and catalysators slow the flow.

2. The best for the engine is to get to the intake as much oxygen as possible. However, we have EGR in our engines (exhaust gas recyclation) - part of exhaust gas goes back to the intake - this also lowers the power.

With less power we have to press the accelarator more - this means higher consumption.

One more thing - if I understood correctly, the 5th injector in D4D Cleanpower is used only for lowering the emissions, it has nothing to do with the power. So we are injecting the diesel just for emissions. How much? 5% - 10% ? I really don't know, but I think it will be around this number. This is the direct expense to the emissions.

At the moment the D4D clean power is the only diesel engine which complies with Euro V. When the TDI, TDCI, HDI, CDI.... and also beemers will comply with Euro V, their consumption will match ours, trust me.

Matus - this really does explain it. This is basically what I was told by someone in the Trade who contacted me as a result of my original threads on the consumption a while back. The Euro compliance makes the cars cleaner, but they use more fossil fuel in the process (wow - the beaurocrats are doing us proud again) and the consumption goes up. Thank you Lexus for explaining this (not).

As JC (Jeremy Clarkson - Top Gear programme on BBC2) said the other day, a new Carrera Turbo takes in dirtier air than what comes out of the exhaust

So we should all be happy that we are cleaning the air each time we sit in a traffic jam, there's one to ponder !

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Here we are again then!

After Fridays re-visit (inc new alloys!) 31000 on the clock. Tomorrow off to Swansea, Thursday Lands End, and totalling 950miles.

The ECU fix does not work, so I have wasted another 2 days of my life and this car.

I have to say I feel well and truly ripped off! Lexus Leicester refuse to do the complete jet swap and then last week I read on here that Lexus Exeter are for other owners! :tsktsk:

I went looking at 320D yesterday but I am 12m into a 30m pcp so no escape there then!

Any ideas????

Smile, grin and bear it...

That's what I've resorted to. Oh well, another few more years, then I can afford to defect as Alan has!

PS - Harry - whereabouts in Leics are you?

Whetstone

Happy Days EH? :shutit:

Harry - So you're south of the river then - River Soar that is! I just love the south Leicestershire towns and villages - very nice in the summer!!

I was only offered the 5th Injector swop out as a test. Leicester will not do anything unless there is a good reason to do it. In some ways I can agree with them, but from a customer perspective, it's annoying and seems like no progress. You as the customer have the annoyance to hand, day in day out!

Anyway, hopefully Matus's note from above sort of confirms what I was asked to investigate by a "friend" who PM'd me from the forum.

[is200johnb]

The link below has a little bit of information on the 2.2 engine albeit for the Avensis.

http://www.babez.de/toyota/avensis22.php

[SiWhite]

The 177 DIN hp 2.2-litre D-4D inaugurates Toyota’s revolutionary new concept for diesel engines - Clean Power - now possible through the adoption of the most innovative diesel technologies in the world, some of them unique to Toyota. Thanks to the carmaker’s world-beating Toyota D-CAT (Diesel Clean Advanced Technology), this 2.2 D-4D Clean Power has the smallest combined NOX and PM emissions among all diesel engines on the market. However, the unit boasts segment-beating levels of power and torque (177 DIN hp and 400 Nm between 2,000 and 2,600 rpm), combined with the lowest Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH) and, on average, 20% lower fuel consumption among engines of equivalent power (combined target fuel consumption of 6.1 l/100 km for Avensis Sedan).

At 15.8:1, the engine also boasts the world’s lowest compression ratio among production diesel engines. The effort the piston has to make to compress the air-fuel mixture is smaller, with a lower compression ratio. This has been made possible by the use of an advanced common-rail injection system and improved ceramic glow plugs that can achieve much higher temperatures (1175 °C, 100 °C higher than before) for more efficient cold-starting. Altogether, this not only means a quieter combustion, but also less heat build-up in the piston bowl for a more efficient burn and, in turn, better fuel economy and less emissions.

[Matus]

So we should all be happy that we are cleaning the air each time we sit in a traffic jam, there's one to ponder !

well, basically you are right but - my friend has a Toledo TDI 66kw and his consumption is almost always less than 6l/100km (more than 47mpg). I compared the emisions and our D4d CO2 is about 1/4 of his and the particulate something (don't know what) is less than 1/10 of his! So even if we have double power and higher consumption, there are huge differences in emissions.

So probably there isn't direct connection between the consumption and emissions, what confirms other lexus engine - the 5,0 V8 in IS-F, which has 290g/km of CO2 - what is, they say, exceptionally good number. (BMW M3 has 323g/km). Of course I don't want to say that a 300hp V8 has smaller emissions than inline four 1,4i, but as we can see on comparison of tdi 66kw and 2,2 d4-d, slightly higher consumption may mean much lower emisions.

is200johnb: great article!

thanks

[VrmmVrmm]

Hi Everyone,

I have only 2200klm (1380 miles) on the clock...I went on a journey today along country roads and trunk roads in the West of Ireland (NO motorways or dual carriageways) the journey was 165 miles never passed 60mph but drove close to it as often as possible. Stopped 3 times and drove through 3 fairly large towns at 20 mph. When I started on my journey I had a tank average of 6.8 litres per 100klm thats equilvalent to 41.5 mph when the journey was over my tank average had dropped to 6.0 litres per 100klm or 47.5 mph. I filled the tank last Friday and had done around 200 miles prior to today on the fill....220D Executive 17" wheels.

This means I did close to 5.6 litres per 100klm or 50 mpg over the total journey in order to pull the consumption down to the 6.0 litre figure. From reading your posts I observe that some of you do long journeys on motorways at 70-80 mph and wonder how you're not getting good return on diesel?? I may be incorrect but as a rule of thumb I always understood that when driving over 60 mph you could possibly be using approx 10% more fuel whether it be a petrol or diesel engine. Another figure I've been told is that fuel consumption can be as much as 5% higher with AC on?? I had the AC Off!

Again I'm not an expert but it appears to run through many of the posts with regard to mpg. If and when?...hoping! My car is run in, I expect an improvement and it appears therefore that the targets set by Lexus may well be achievable. This is a January 2007 car with no rattles etc...let me assure you if it had, the roads in the West of Ireland would certainly bring them out of the woodwork/plastic. I'm hoping that Lexus have (silently addressed) some of the issues you rightly complain about ...injectors...rattles...ECU programme. By the way I've double checked all the figures manually to see if the car's computer is accurate and it is. I've always filled the car todate at the same ESSO pump and recorded the exact amount in litres to fill the car till the pump clicks off. Hope this helps and encourages you to believe that things can and will get better. :D :D :D

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

As the engine loosens, you can use 6th more often, which I think kills economy. The engine labours a lot, but just stops vibrating like when new...

[Gareth]

And don't let yourself cheat, that new luxury versions have the sport ratio, because before when luxury had the standard ratio, it was mentioned that equipment levels with 18" rims have the same consumpion as sport package.

It seems that you're suggesting here that the newer 2007 SE-L version has the gears out of the 2006/7 sport version?

Is that correct?!

I haven't heard it anywhere before.

G

[VrmmVrmm]

And don't let yourself cheat, that new luxury versions have the sport ratio, because before when luxury had the standard ratio, it was mentioned that equipment levels with 18" rims have the same consumpion as sport package.

It seems that you're suggesting here that the newer 2007 SE-L version has the gears out of the 2006/7 sport version?

Is that correct?!

I haven't heard it anywhere before.

G

Hello Gareth,

No, I'm not really making any claims re: Gears etc...what I read on the board is many owners of NEW IS220 in any spec for 2006 all seem to have experienced a wide and consistently similar range of problems. The owners of 2007 cars of which I'm one do not appear to have as many complaints which I'm sure are legitimate. It will be interesting to see how the topics re: the NEW IS220...2007 car come in to the board. Will they be more consistently pleased? OR As with 2006 model owners distinctly unhappy. I think and believe the main part of my reply indicates that the car does make every effort to achieve fuel economy so long as the driver co-operates...if an owner wants to belt around at 70-80 mph on motorways that of course is their perogative and for the most part within the law. BUT I don't expect the car can do the impossible by giving specified fuel economy at this high level of performance. The car I have is wonderful...the torque etc make this car a real 'Shifter' if I want it too, but I know if I drive within certain perameters I can get close to the Lexus figures regards mpg or in my case litres/100klm.

Interestingly a few post lately on this topic have recognised that this car has to be driven differently to take account of the gearing...I believe I have become attuned to the car and my driving style has had to change completely in comparison to my E200 petrol manual Mercedes (last car). Two factors contibuted to this 1) The roads over here in the West of Ireland make you drive, by this I mean there are no long tedious sessions of driving in the same gear...you're forever changing up and down to meet the corners and indeed undulations as you go up and down blah...blah. 2) Having read the posts I said to myself I've decided to buy this car despite the bad press its been getting here...hoping that 2007 models would be better...having done so I decided to challenge myself to drive this car to make it meet the specified economy...its my belief I'm going to achieve this target...NOT EASY I admit but I do think achieveable.

Bottom line...I think driving style has alot to do with it NOT the gearing. As I said I'm looking forward to more 2007 owners coming to the bulletin board to share their thoughts I'm not, nor do I profess to be any kind of an expert...but i am the happy owner of an IS220D :D :D :D

[Cooper S]

Vrmm Vrmm

I agree with the majority of what you say, but were I do disagree is in regard to the gearing, I too live in an area which requires a lot gear changing, undulating and steep gradients.

In previous diesels I was using 4th and 5 th to go up a steep road on the approach to my home. My Xtrail used to romp up in 5th! In this car I cannot even use 4th on the same stretch of road. Most of the time it is 3rd. Ok the car is not fully run in and will loosen. But Im comparing to others at the same mileage. Having said that Im not having the problems that other people have had and mine appears to be a 2007 model. I love the car and I have changed my style of driving, however at times you forget (an age thing according to my wife) and the car bogs down. I too read the comments on these forums and still went ahead with my purchase and Im glad I did. I have sympathy for Jamboo and others who have had a number of problems, believe me I have been there having succesfully rejected two BMW's within the space of 4 months, a VW and ssshhh a .....Ford.

[Gareth]

VrmmVrmm, all very valid points... but unless you're ALSO matus, then it wasn't you I was quoting ;)

[Matus]

And don't let yourself cheat, that new luxury versions have the sport ratio, because before when luxury had the standard ratio, it was mentioned that equipment levels with 18" rims have the same consumpion as sport package.

It seems that you're suggesting here that the newer 2007 SE-L version has the gears out of the 2006/7 sport version?

Is that correct?!

I haven't heard it anywhere before.

G

exactly.

But I can not confirm, if it is valid also for UK models.

[VrmmVrmm]

And don't let yourself cheat, that new luxury versions have the sport ratio, because before when luxury had the standard ratio, it was mentioned that equipment levels with 18" rims have the same consumpion as sport package.

It seems that you're suggesting here that the newer 2007 SE-L version has the gears out of the 2006/7 sport version?

Is that correct?!

I haven't heard it anywhere before.

G

exactly.

But I can not confirm, if it is valid also for UK models.

Hi Gareth & Matus

Sorry about the mix up my fault....whoops!

[leddy]

Hi Guys just read all the comments on the fuel econ. I've been talking to a local Mechanic and he said that if you change gear at or around 2000rpm each time it should improve your MPG. :duh:

So I have a set my rev indicator (Nice touch Lex)to come on at around 2000rpm to signal a gear change(woo F1 Stuff). if anything it looks quite cool and up to now it's not really a problem even hitting 6th gear at around 60-65 with no issues .

As for mpg well it's too early to tell yet . But before trying this top mechanic tip I was getting about 420 mile to a full tank (£45 worth) with an average of 34.7 on the comp.

Here's Tryin Leddy :D :D

[simon k]

i have a 2007 model,the ecu has been re programed because of low fuel consumption i was getting around 29.9mpg.after the re programe there is no improvment in mpg and it appears to have got worse

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

This all makes such interesting reading. I have had my car for nearly a year, and I have to say it is a very comfortable place to be. The car does still have some minor rattles, but I live with those now, and am quite frankly used to it.

I used to be able to turn up the MLS to drown them out, but my passenger side speaker vibrates now with the volume up...

Anyway, back to MPG - yesterday, for the first time in months, I went on a longer trip. 400 miles return...all motorway...

This time I decided that I would be gentle, not unleash the horses, totally change my driving style, and drive as if I were a man of the cloth...not that I drive terribly fast anyway...

I kept the car at 70mph, and didn't use 6th at all - only 5th - all the way there, used Cruise for approx 1/3rd of the journey, and the car showed 43.5mpg. There was no stop start stuff - the roads were clear for a change...

On the way back, I reset the ave MPG readout, and did the same again, but this time used 6th...only used Cruise for 10% if that, to try and stop the car from labouring too much up hill...and I hovered at around the national speed limit only, slowing on hills by approx 3-5mph, and then quickly getting back to 70 when I could withiut labouring.

MPG? 48.9 for the return leg...45.4 overall for the Tank.

I know that the Trip in the Lexus is only out by 1 or 2% tops, so I reckon that was good.

What I haven't mentioned is that my colleague followed me in his A4 PDi 170, all the way back. He reset his trip as we left too....when I peeled off the m/way, I called him and his Audi was showing...

Wait for it.....

52.5mpg for that return leg - but the Audi Trip is normally an over reader by 5-10%....it's faster, and much more comfortable in any gear...

So the moral of the story is -

Don't rush it

Grass is always greener on the other side

It hates to be Laboured

Treat it with respect

Be gentle

In other words treat it like a woman

PS - what I do know is that I could do the same journey, and probably get a different reading...that's my luck!

PPS - the other interesting thing is that the 07 model has the switches re-positioned. I am sure it's to help the dealers understand which are 06 and which are 07 MY's, then they can see if all the other stuff fixed under the skin has worked or not...I wonder if the dealers will give you less PEX value for the 06 model '56 plater then they would for the 07 model '56 plater, knowing the 06 is likely to keep coming back?

[Gareth]

It seems that you're suggesting here that the newer 2007 SE-L version has the gears out of the 2006/7 sport version?

Is that correct?!

I haven't heard it anywhere before.

G

exactly.

But I can not confirm, if it is valid also for UK models.

I've heard back from Lexus.

There was a small modification to the gearbox for the 07 models, but it affects all variants of the IS.

It's a change to the synchromesh affecting gear change into second.

There was no change made to the gearing.

G

[Matus]

PPS - the other interesting thing is that the 07 model has the switches re-positioned.

I've heard back from Lexus.

There was a small modification to the gearbox for the 07 models, but it affects all variants of the IS.

It's a change to the synchromesh affecting gear change into second.

There was no change made to the gearing.

Yesterday I drove 07 IS220d Luxury.

There is no change in the position of the switches (I couldn't notice if they are at least lightned)

There is a change in the final ratio, I felt instantly the difference in gearing.

So now I definitely know, that we in Slovakia (and probably in whole europe) get different cars then youse in the UK.

PS: the car had 600miles and had no rattles at all, the tank average was 9,2l - 31mpg (driven all in the city)

[Gareth]

Yesterday I drove 07 IS220d Luxury.

There is no change in the position of the switches (I couldn't notice if they are at least lightned)

There is a change in the final ratio, I felt instantly the difference in gearing.

So now I definitely know, that we in Slovakia (and probably in whole europe) get different cars then youse in the UK.

PS: the car had 600miles and had no rattles at all, the tank average was 9,2l - 31mpg (driven all in the city)

What makes you say it was an 07 car?

Could it not have been manufactured on November 2006, shipped across from Japan, then arrived in Slovakia in January and been registered for 2007?

Personally, and no offense to you, but I highly doubt if there would be a UK specific model with such minimal changes.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Yesterday I drove 07 IS220d Luxury.

There is no change in the position of the switches (I couldn't notice if they are at least lightned)

There is a change in the final ratio, I felt instantly the difference in gearing.

So now I definitely know, that we in Slovakia (and probably in whole europe) get different cars then youse in the UK.

PS: the car had 600miles and had no rattles at all, the tank average was 9,2l - 31mpg (driven all in the city)

What makes you say it was an 07 car?

Could it not have been manufactured on November 2006, shipped across from Japan, then arrived in Slovakia in January and been registered for 2007?

Personally, and no offense to you, but I highly doubt if there would be a UK specific model with such minimal changes.

I've driven '56 Plated cars, which I thought were supposed to be 07MY's with the old switch setup. Regardless of what dealers tell you, I don' think sales are particularly stong for this car, or not as strong as Lex hoped. Just look at the discounts now available in the UK.

It's possible that there was a mad early rush, Lexus started to concentrate on LHD models for the states, causing a trickle supply for UK, and dealers just went ahead and pre-ordered cars without buyers in the hope that they could hit targets and make a killing...

Now they are behaving like Ford and Honda - mail shotting customers to go in and get a good deal.

[VrmmVrmm]

Hi Jamboo,

I think you've proven to yourself and others that this car has to be almost fondled into giving of its best, hence the analogy of being treated like a woman. In my previous post as you may have read I specifically would like to see more LOC owners of IS220Ds trying what I suggested and what you actually did.

I believe you are now a happy camper re: economy. If only the other niggles can be sorted you'd be back to championing the car once again.

Well Done...keep doing it... why not?