Diff Troubles

[Talisker]

Hi there,

I really need to get this off my chest because i'm not a happy bunny.

I've been after a LSD for my IS200 SE for a little bit now, I thought it might come in handy especially as i have my supercharger fitted now.

Anyway had a look on fleabay for people breaking cars (don't think i can really stretch to £500 for a kaaz or similar) and found a guy breaking an IS200 Sport. So i emailed him and asked him if it definitely, definitely was a Sport and how much he wanted for the diff. He said yes it was a sport and he wanted £90 for the diff plus £15 postage. I thought bargain, I'll have some of that.

I received it a few days later but it was just a regular diff! I knew, because the wheels turned in opposite directions and just to be sure opened the back up for a peek, yep definitely an open diff.

So i got in touch with him by phone and explained the situation, he said, 'nah mate, it's off a sport innit' (actual quote). I tried to explain that it couldn't have been because the Sports are fitted with lsd's but he was adamant, so i negotiated a refund but pretty peeved i had to pay postage back to the guy.

A few days later i thought i'd try salvage yards directly and found someone selling a lsd for £130 delivered, a bit more expensive than the last one but still a good deal. Anyway received it today and it's another bloody Open diff! :tsktsk:

I mean do these people think we're all mugs? That they can assure us it's the part we want and then send us any old crap they have lying about.

I might just be unlucky but twice in a row is a bit coincidental, it's a bit beyond a joke.

Gripe over, thanks for reading.

PS. Anyone have a genuine LSD lying around they would like to sell?

[Yeldarb]

Some early Sport models had "open" Diffs, you need to check the VIN plate to see what Diff was fitted. There is a thread about this somewhere, do a search and you will find all the info about what to look out for.

[DimitrisTS]

I am sorry to say to you that you probably had in your hands in both cases, indeed a geniune LSD differential from a sport Lexus IS200.

Those LSD's are not like a authentic torsen LSD. Their operation is based on friction between gears, oil and differentials case.

It has almost no wear and it does not even need special LSD oil.

On the other hand, it does not has a more accurate operation as a real torsen LSD.

Hope i helped...

[Steviewevie]

I am sorry to say to you that you probably had in your hands in both cases, indeed a geniune LSD differential from a sport Lexus IS200.

Those LSD's are not like a authentic torsen LSD. Their operation is based on friction between gears, oil and differentials case.

It has almost no wear and it does not even need special LSD oil.

On the other hand, it does not has a more accurate operation as a real torsen LSD.

Not saying that you're incorrect, but where does your information come from ?

In the online workshop manual here, it says that the LSD in the IS200 is a Torsen diff.

[Steviewevie]

Sorry to question you Talisker, but though I've heard this story about some Sports not having an LSD, I've never been totally convinced its true (e.g. not seen anyone say they've got a Sport without an LSD). As Yeldarb said, you can tell by the plate on the engine bulkhead.

Are you sure your test about rotating the wheels is an accurate indicator of an LSD ? And how did you tell from looking inside the LSD itself ? Again, sorry because you may well know more about diffs than I do, just that I'm suprised you'd have had the same problem twice.

My IS200 is a 1999 Sport and according to the engine bay plate I do have an LSD.

[Talisker]

I know you can tell whether the car has an LSD by looking at the 4 digit code on the VIN plate, but unfortunately getting such specific information out of breaker yard staff can be challenging.

I'm basing my information firstly on the maintenance manual, as Steviewevie pointed out the information is laid out Here. The torsion diff has a series of planet gears arranged inside a diff casing. And secondly on information people have posted on my.is.

Here is a picture of what the torsion diff looks like. Note the cylindrical diff casing.

Now here is a picture of the open differential. Both the diffs I received look like this.

I hope this helps you see where I'm coming from and why I'm so frustrated.

[Steviewevie]

ok, sorry, I can see how that must be very frustrating. I think that the fact the IS200 Sport doesn't have a specific "Sport" badge on the rear, but then other non-Sport models can say "Sport" (e.g. on Sport grille) must mean it's confusing for breakers who aren't too familiar with the IS200. But of course they should know what they're selling.

[sparkystav]

as has been said, theres a letter on the VIN number you need to look out for, cant remember off hand though

[Steviewevie]

I found the old postings. If you check the VIN plate, where it says "axle" there are 4 digits, A02A or A02B. If it says "A" it's open and "B" it's LSD.

[DimitrisTS]

I don't know if there are sport models without LSD but i insist that the sports model, LSD, is not a real Torsen.

If you read carefully at the manual, where you pointed me, you will see that limited slip, is achieved by FRICTION. Not by clutch or gear engagement.

I am pretty confident of that...!

So, Talisker's test of rotating the wheels cannot give any conclusions about the IS200 LSD.

[Talisker]

I don't know if there are sport models without LSD but i insist that the sports model, LSD, is not a real Torsen.

If you read carefully at the manual, where you pointed me, you will see that limited slip, is achieved by FRICTION. Not by clutch or gear engagement.

I am pretty confident of that...!

So, Talisker's test of rotating the wheels cannot give any conclusions about the IS200 LSD.

Fair enough I'll concede that. That was just something I picked up on here on previous threads about the IS200 LSD.

But the fact still remains, the items i received look nothing like the LSD depicted in the manual or the photos I've posted above.

[Monster-Mat]

DimitriTS the Torsen units are friction, not clutch, The Torsen differential is simply a torque multiplier that works through the use of friction generated by thrust forces from the internal gearing

the Torsen Company was bought up and is part of the Toyoda machine works which is a subsidiary of Toyota Corporation

[DimitrisTS]

DimitriTS the Torsen units are friction, not clutch, The Torsen differential is simply a torque multiplier that works through the use of friction generated by thrust forces from the internal gearing

You are right. I did n't mean that Torsen has anything to do with clutch. Just that our sport models LSD is not a classic lsd solution.

On real torsen, limited slip is achived between friction of gears. Not the tooth tips of helical gears against the differential case!

On real torsen, the friction between gears is something absolutely controllable that has to do with the gears construction. As a result the manufacturer can give an exact amount of limited slip. etc 80-20%.

On our differentials, things are a bit more fluid... And the perfomance of the differential is subject to things like oil quality and oil temperature.

Other than that, i agree with Talisker, that the one in the picture, looks nothing like the illustrated LSD of the sport model...

I hope i did not confuse things, but that's what i 've conclude...