Decisions, Decisions...

[MeOfLeeds]

Overall, I'm really pleased with my 3 yr old IS220D SE (MM).

It's never let me down (though it's a pig in the snow and a bit of a dog first thing of a cold morning) but the lease is nearly up and I'm casting around for alternatives.

The Prius looks good on the tax front, but the inside looks like its been put together with the cheapest plastic they can find. Mondeo and Insignia, well let's not even go there.

Mazda CX-7 looks good, but would be an increase in tax, however the top of the range 6 sports luxury is cheaper than the IS and better on the tax - but no integral sat-nav available.

The car-park at my office is full of Audi's, which I guess is testament to their popularity but they're pretty dull. BMW's don't really do it for me. I'm under 50 so a Merc is probably out - plus when I visited the dealer today there are delivery problems because of dodgy injectors (as previously discussed on this forum).

So we're back to the Lexus - the IS220D SEI comes with free MM if you order by the end of March...

[javadude]

lol I like your thinking about mercs. I feel the same way. At 41 I'm way too young for one and judging from what I hear from a colleague at work they are unreliable, expensive to run and the dealers don't offer very good service.

[Steve_L]

Hi YouofLeeds!

MeofWakefield but been living in exile in south Wales for nearly 40 years - yes I am old enough for a Merc and nearly bought one as an outcome of the same agonys as you are going through.

For me, I had to consider the overall cost as I was buying for first time in 20 years. The Lexus was the only marque I could get a good deal on - 6 month old 09MY 220dSE (the new 'base model') and (strangely) it was the only one my family felt comfortable in - even though rear room is not that good.

A few prompts from my thinking -

fuel consumption improved? - I am still disappointed that the claims have not materialised. Achieved a trip return of c. 50mpg on 200 mile motorway run, but urban consumption is around 30 by my reckoning and I tend to get 36 ish from each tank - not good enough really. Hence, great as motorway car

performance good - don't really use the 177 bhp to full potential but when I do it is always responsive

excellent spec - got everything I need without picking from long list of costly extras (although I understand Lexus are cutting back). No sat nav or MM for me but then I am a simple sole who likes to feel I don't get lost and extra quality hi-fi is for the home

a pig in the snow - yes it is still but then most rear wheel drives are. I can cope with it once a year - well third time for us now this winter

looks good - personal taste but I do love the styling

Best of luck with your decision.

[MeOfLeeds]

Best of luck with your decision.

Thanks!

I've had a quote on an identically spec'd IS and it's forty quid a month cheaper than I'm paying now - though I've reduced my projected annual mileage a bit.

However, I got a quote this morning from the Merc guy and they can get me into an E-class (pretty much the poverty model mind) for the same money and BMW are apparently doing a deal in the 320d SE - so I might just have to eat my words and go German. I work for a German company so that might go down quite well.

[Valkirk]

I think with Merc's it depends on the models....I got one in my early 30's and love it :)

For me it depends on if you must have Diesel....given petrol choice it would def be a IS250 or if wanted a change a 350CGI Merc....but for Diesel I would have to choose a BMW or Audi from that selection. The Merc ones have too many problems at the moment and unless the IS has changed since I drove it I found the gearing and everything just too way off; running at 30-35 MPH it hated it regardless of gear....

The other thing to keep in mind is with weather like this an Audi quattro will be the only that isn't a total pig to drive!

My suggestion would be if you can keep the car longer might be to hold on another 8 months till the new Lexus LFA Hatch comes out (If hatches are something you might consider) being hybrid it should be great on tax and fairly good on consumption.....plus front wheel drive means it won't leave you as vulnerable in snow.

[tallguy_uk_98]

HI Folks,

Newbie here, I am looking to replace my 54 plate x-type diesel, and one of the cars that I'm thinking of is the IS220d, probably between 1-2 yrs old, what are the issues etc, a couple of areas i've read about that slightly concerns me are

a: lack of rear room (how bad is this) (I'm 6'2" tall)

b: small boot

Am going to try and see a couple this week but a heads up on isses would be great

Thanks for any help

tallguy

[colbecoz]

Overall, I'm really pleased with my 3 yr old IS220D SE (MM).

It's never let me down (though it's a pig in the snow and a bit of a dog first thing of a cold morning) but the lease is nearly up and I'm casting around for alternatives.

The Prius looks good on the tax front, but the inside looks like its been put together with the cheapest plastic they can find. Mondeo and Insignia, well let's not even go there.

Mazda CX-7 looks good, but would be an increase in tax, however the top of the range 6 sports luxury is cheaper than the IS and better on the tax - but no integral sat-nav available.

The car-park at my office is full of Audi's, which I guess is testament to their popularity but they're pretty dull. BMW's don't really do it for me. I'm under 50 so a Merc is probably out - plus when I visited the dealer today there are delivery problems because of dodgy injectors (as previously discussed on this forum).

So we're back to the Lexus - the IS220D SEI comes with free MM if you order by the end of March...

If you can, go for the 220D mate. I love mine. Couple of minor annoyences but I rate it way above mercs and BMW. Why pay extra for a little brand emblem/badge. Besides, the Lexus looks 1 million times better.

Col.. :winky: :winky:

[Seth]

I'm with col on this one, i've got an 07 plate IS220d SE, and it's the bollocks, love it to bits. The seats are among the most comfortable i've ever sat in, to hell with the back ones as it's my car so i don't intend to have to endure a drive in the back, but i've managed to get some of my tall friends (up to 6" 5) in the back when neccesary so it's not too bad. I'm also 6" 2, and there's no problem with my height in the front whatsoever.

As for the boot space, i can fit a toolbox, first aid kit, 65 Watt Bass amplifier and a PA speaker in it, so it's pretty decent sized, but not the biggest out there.

Hope this helps.

[jamesholden]

If your happy with the one you've got why don't you buy it from them at the end of the lease, monthly payments will probably be much cheaper than the lease on a new one, and in the case of IS220's - better the devil you know!

[colbecoz]

I'm with col on this one, i've got an 07 plate IS220d SE, and it's the bollocks, love it to bits. The seats are among the most comfortable i've ever sat in, to hell with the back ones as it's my car so i don't intend to have to endure a drive in the back, but i've managed to get some of my tall friends (up to 6" 5) in the back when neccesary so it's not too bad. I'm also 6" 2, and there's no problem with my height in the front whatsoever.

As for the boot space, i can fit a toolbox, first aid kit, 65 Watt Bass amplifier and a PA speaker in it, so it's pretty decent sized, but not the biggest out there.

Hope this helps.

Lol.... boot's plenty big...... can even get a crate of beer in with that lot tooo........

[MeOfLeeds]

Well I've narrowed it down a bit:

1. Audi A6 Avant 2.0 SE

2. BMW 320d SE Touring

3. Merc C250cgi Elegance saloon

OR

4. Lexus IS220d SE-I (MM)

All work out at around the same money a month and include Bluetooth & sat nav. I'm still struggling to make a decision...

[kittykat]

Well I've narrowed it down a bit:

1. Audi A6 Avant 2.0 SE

2. BMW 320d SE Touring

3. Merc C250cgi Elegance saloon

OR

4. Lexus IS220d SE-I (MM)

All work out at around the same money a month and include bluetooth & sat nav. I'm still struggling to make a decision...

Having just switched from a BMW 320d to a Lexus 220d se inc MM I would def have the lexus again again I guess it depends if you are after something different...the BMW is the worst of the rear wheel drives in the snow having tried both! whilst no rear wheel are great the BMW is def the one you always see being pushed/towed or in a didtch. My friend has the Merc however and she's really pleased with it, it may be a girly thing but she prefers the MM with the touch screen against her merc one!

Enjoy your thought process!!

:duh:

[egnot]

The lease of my 220d comes to an end in April and was originally going for a Mazda 6 Sport as replacement due to Benchmark limitations and the price increase of the basic 220d. The deletion of Cruise Control was a deciding factor.

I have changed my mind and managed to squeze a BMW X1 into the Benchmark. Why not look at the X1, its basically a slightly higher 3 series tourer with SE level and about 4k cheaper!! Its lighter so emissions are lower and is probably more economical.

[Monsterped]

Just to add some balance to those who are raving about their 220ds, mine has been a complete sh*t. Over 2 years / 65k miles it's had over £9000 of warranty work including a new engine, cat, injectors, diesel pump and a whole load more. And just today is spent a good hour intermittently miss-firing under load. My partner works in the motor trade and knows the Lexus techs well - mine is not an isolated incident by any means, with at least 4 other cars in the area also having new engine blocks

And it's still sh*te. Runs poorly and returns atrocious economy. At best 37, average around 34mpg. Fortunately it goes in a few weeks.

I've driven plenty of new model 220ds (about every two -three months on average over two years) and frankly Lexus cocked up big style on this engine if you ask me. None I have driven, inc a brand new 59 plate with 40 miles on it, drove properly if you ask me. Certainly not in the same league as the German opposition. The real kicker though to me is the depreciation - registered December 07 and now only worth around £8k, maybe £9k at a push. My bro in law is in the used car trade and most used dealers won't touch them from his experience

It's a real shame they got the diesel engine so wide of the mark as the rest of the car is great, looks good, decent equipment etc etc.

If you're gonna buy one, please make sure you get a decent length test drive and try it under all conditions if at all possible. Given mine has nearly caused about 6 collisions due to cutting out unexpectedly, I'd hate to think an unsuspecting buyer could end up in a worse situation.

Never, in my opinion, has the phrase "buyer beware" been more applicable, especially on earlier cars.

Roll on the last week of Feb when my Scirocco arrives and I can get shot of the Lexus

[Valkirk]

Well I've narrowed it down a bit:

1. Audi A6 Avant 2.0 SE

2. BMW 320d SE Touring

3. Merc C250cgi Elegance saloon

OR

4. Lexus IS220d SE-I (MM)

All work out at around the same money a month and include bluetooth & sat nav. I'm still struggling to make a decision...

Hmm given the A6 would be in the same line as 5 series, E class and GS models seems best value if all the same sort of money?!

[colbecoz]

Just to add some balance to those who are raving about their 220ds, mine has been a complete sh*t. Over 2 years / 65k miles it's had over £9000 of warranty work including a new engine, cat, injectors, diesel pump and a whole load more. And just today is spent a good hour intermittently miss-firing under load. My partner works in the motor trade and knows the Lexus techs well - mine is not an isolated incident by any means, with at least 4 other cars in the area also having new engine blocks

And it's still sh*te. Runs poorly and returns atrocious economy. At best 37, average around 34mpg. Fortunately it goes in a few weeks.

I've driven plenty of new model 220ds (about every two -three months on average over two years) and frankly Lexus cocked up big style on this engine if you ask me. None I have driven, inc a brand new 59 plate with 40 miles on it, drove properly if you ask me. Certainly not in the same league as the German opposition. The real kicker though to me is the depreciation - registered December 07 and now only worth around £8k, maybe £9k at a push. My bro in law is in the used car trade and most used dealers won't touch them from his experience

It's a real shame they got the diesel engine so wide of the mark as the rest of the car is great, looks good, decent equipment etc etc.

If you're gonna buy one, please make sure you get a decent length test drive and try it under all conditions if at all possible. Given mine has nearly caused about 6 collisions due to cutting out unexpectedly, I'd hate to think an unsuspecting buyer could end up in a worse situation.

Never, in my opinion, has the phrase "buyer beware" been more applicable, especially on earlier cars.

Roll on the last week of Feb when my Scirocco arrives and I can get shot of the Lexus

Wow.....!!!!! I'd posted my concern as to whether I'd bought the wrong car in a Lexus IS220D. My fears had been allayed, but now with this post, I'm petrified that I've paid a shed load of money for a piece of Kack!!! My IS200 sport was a fantastic machine, and, now I wish I'd kept it.

Col..........

[colbecoz]

Just to add some balance to those who are raving about their 220ds, mine has been a complete sh*t. Over 2 years / 65k miles it's had over £9000 of warranty work including a new engine, cat, injectors, diesel pump and a whole load more. And just today is spent a good hour intermittently miss-firing under load. My partner works in the motor trade and knows the Lexus techs well - mine is not an isolated incident by any means, with at least 4 other cars in the area also having new engine blocks

And it's still sh*te. Runs poorly and returns atrocious economy. At best 37, average around 34mpg. Fortunately it goes in a few weeks.

I've driven plenty of new model 220ds (about every two -three months on average over two years) and frankly Lexus cocked up big style on this engine if you ask me. None I have driven, inc a brand new 59 plate with 40 miles on it, drove properly if you ask me. Certainly not in the same league as the German opposition. The real kicker though to me is the depreciation - registered December 07 and now only worth around £8k, maybe £9k at a push. My bro in law is in the used car trade and most used dealers won't touch them from his experience

It's a real shame they got the diesel engine so wide of the mark as the rest of the car is great, looks good, decent equipment etc etc.

If you're gonna buy one, please make sure you get a decent length test drive and try it under all conditions if at all possible. Given mine has nearly caused about 6 collisions due to cutting out unexpectedly, I'd hate to think an unsuspecting buyer could end up in a worse situation.

Never, in my opinion, has the phrase "buyer beware" been more applicable, especially on earlier cars.

Roll on the last week of Feb when my Scirocco arrives and I can get shot of the Lexus

Wow.....!!!!! I'd posted my concern as to whether I'd bought the wrong car in a Lexus IS220D. My fears had been allayed, but now with this post, I'm petrified that I've paid a shed load of money for a piece of Kack!!! My IS200 sport was a fantastic machine, and, now I wish I'd kept it.

Col..........

[Gunther]

colbecoz, not necessarily! My 07 220d was fine, just one or 2 rattles.

I know there have been some bad cars, take Monsterped and some other peeps as good examples, but on the whole you have to be fairly unlucky to get a really bad one.

The biggest issue is in the drive train. The gearing is really bad. You don't notice it once you've been driving it, because you just start to drive in 3rd instead of 4th etc, and if you want overtakeability on motorways, you don't bother with 6th (though you can cruise in 6th at 70 on flat/downhill stretches, and even some mild hills). I also think the IS has ay too much road noise. Just my personal feeling on that one, and I tried Bridgestone and SportMax cars, both were as bad!

The flat spot can catch you out at roundabouts, and you'll notice that you have stand on the accelerator and watch the rev's build relatively slowly when in neutral. You only notice how slow the ISd is to rev like that when you try an Audi or BMW diesel. I have never seen a TD car so slow to react, and that is one of the reasons why there is a flat spot. Your brain works much faster than the engines ability to spool the turbo! Like I say ou hav to compare to the competition and you will see what I mean, else you are use to it!!

Even my local dealers (2 different ones as I moved from the Midlands to Lakes while owning) said that there were several cars with issues that they had done lots of work on, but I think that is common with new DPF diesels, no matter what the make.

If you can live with the gearing, the so-so economy and the occasional rattle, you'll be fine. Then again, not all rattle. You do get a lot of kit for the money and you can't complain at all.

Just make sure you keep a warranty on it and make sure it's for the whole of the fuel system i.e. turbo, DPF, EGR etc and decoking are all covered.

YouofLeeds - I would say that if you are asking the question my friend, then try something different - if your heart wanted another IS you wouldn't ask!!

The A6 will be replaced in the next 12 or so months so it'll be out of date before much longer, and generally Audi have always given better deals on the A6 £ for £ compared to 5er BMW. But. If you think it is too big, try the C Class - it is really good all round. If I was buying a petrol Compact exec, I would choose IS250 Auto or Merc C Class Auto only - a 3er Petrol isn't bad either. I have no regrets to the switch. If it was a diesel compact exec, then I think latest facelifted BMW 3er all the way!!

[MeOfLeeds]

Hi Guys - thanks for all the input.

I'm not unhappy with my IS, but one of my main issues is that I live on a fairly busy main road and always reverse into my driveway so I can more easily pull out into traffic first thing on a morning. You really have to rev the bo****cks off it to get it to shift because you don't want to be pootling about with cars bearing down on you at 40mph and if you waited for a really long gap in the traffic you'd be there until rush hour is over. What this is doing to a very cold engine and clutch doesn't bear thinking about.

Fuel economy, as most people will admit is pretty poor. With all the gizmo's running to keep me warm this past couple of weeks I'm struggling to get better than 28mpg - my Alfa 159 driving friend, brother in his Passat and others in various diesel cars laugh at me when I tell them. Plus 4 up going on holiday, you really notice the crap boot space and rear seat passengers have commented on how cramped it is in the back.

The trouble is, when buying (or leasing in my case), you have to make compromises - I can get a poverty spec E-class Merc SE for cheaper than the Lexus, but of course you don't get all the toys. However, am I really bothered about a cool breeze up the old jacksie on a hot day, is the reversing camera really necessary? (I can impress my nephew with how close I can reverse to his car without hitting it) but if you can't reverse a car without all these aids, you shouldn't really be driving.

It is without doubt the comfiest car I've ever driving: Glasgow and back in a morning, all the way from the tip of Cornwall to Leeds via Heathrow airport without any problems (other than having to fill 'er up) and pokey enough to enjoy on the road.

I've sent my options to those that decide to see what they say. I'll need to place an order in the next week or so...

[fjcfarrar]

Hi Guys - thanks for all the input.

I'm not unhappy with my IS, but one of my main issues is that I live on a fairly busy main road and always reverse into my driveway so I can more easily pull out into traffic first thing on a morning. You really have to rev the bo****cks off it to get it to shift because you don't want to be pootling about with cars bearing down on you at 40mph and if you waited for a really long gap in the traffic you'd be there until rush hour is over. What this is doing to a very cold engine and clutch doesn't bear thinking about.

Fuel economy, as most people will admit is pretty poor. With all the gizmo's running to keep me warm this past couple of weeks I'm struggling to get better than 28mpg - my Alfa 159 driving friend, brother in his Passat and others in various diesel cars laugh at me when I tell them. Plus 4 up going on holiday, you really notice the crap boot space and rear seat passengers have commented on how cramped it is in the back.

The trouble is, when buying (or leasing in my case), you have to make compromises - I can get a poverty spec E-class Merc SE for cheaper than the Lexus, but of course you don't get all the toys. However, am I really bothered about a cool breeze up the old jacksie on a hot day, is the reversing camera really necessary? (I can impress my nephew with how close I can reverse to his car without hitting it) but if you can't reverse a car without all these aids, you shouldn't really be driving.

It is without doubt the comfiest car I've ever driving: Glasgow and back in a morning, all the way from the tip of Cornwall to Leeds via Heathrow airport without any problems (other than having to fill 'er up) and pokey enough to enjoy on the road.

I've sent my options to those that decide to see what they say. I'll need to place an order in the next week or so...

As with all purchases, after you have weighed up all the main issues, you have to decide if the IS220D is what you would choose as a private purchase for personal use of the same sort as you presently need regardless of whether it is effectively a company item or not. If you are unfortunate enough to have to regularly drive long distances, comfort is paramount so that you arrive after the minimum stress, fresh and ready to do what is needed at your destination, and not dreading the discomfort of the return journey. As to the reversing camera, the need these days is to park very accurately in spaces scarcely big enough for the car, so every bit of help is worth it just to make it easy - particularly with cars where the rear window is useless in that respect.

[Steve_L]

Hi MeoL (and other guys)

Just come back to see how the decision is going. If you've submitted that list to your employer, then decision perhaps out of your hands now, but good to know the IS is still there.

You seem to have accounted for the 2 main factors I detect from your posts - comfort and economy. On the first, I agree that comfort excellent for driver. The 09 model I have now is even more comfortable than the 56 I had before, no matter what the length of journey or road type.

With regard to economy, you seem to do a lot of distance. In my experience, that is the IS's strength. The new one is much better on motorway journeys - I set 2k revs as my max and usually get 48 - 50 mpg (43-45 on old one). I'd be happy with that if I did decent runs all the time. The killer is stop-start in urban driving. As a result, there is no overall improvement from a full tank. Never been as low as 28 though!

I have never had any of the horrendous problems suffered by Motorped and a few others. I can understand them going elsewhere.

Nearly forgot to say it still looks great on my drive, especially after a Showroom Shine wash today - but that's another topic.

Cheers

[MeOfLeeds]

Well, the decision has been made......

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It's a BMW 320d SE Touring (business edition). In the end, I just fancied a change and the Beemer ticks most of the boxes; it's obviously got more loading space and the split/fold rear seats will be a plus. I'll be getting the revised engine so it has a bit more umph (186 bhp I believe) and, more importantly for me, it's more of a drivers car than the IS.

I'm really not that bothered about the rear facing camera but will probably miss the heated/ventilated seats!

One question guys - will you lot let me out at junctions please???

[kam05]

One question guys - will you lot let me out at junctions please???

No chance!

just kidding- enjoy the beemer!

[Gunther]

Well, the decision has been made......

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It's a BMW 320d SE Touring (business edition). In the end, I just fancied a change and the Beemer ticks most of the boxes; it's obviously got more loading space and the split/fold rear seats will be a plus. I'll be getting the revised engine so it has a bit more umph (186 bhp I believe) and, more importantly for me, it's more of a drivers car than the IS.

I'm really not that bothered about the rear facing camera but will probably miss the heated/ventilated seats!

One question guys - will you lot let me out at junctions please???

Congratulations! Another Lexus --> BMW person!!

What additional spec (over and above SE) did you get? Did you upgrade the Bus Nav to Pro Nav?

[MeOfLeeds]

The only addition, other than metallic paint, is the automatic wipers/headlights option.

I asked what the difference was between Bus and Pro sat nav and the sales guy said he didn't think it was worth the extra.

In all honesty I'm not a great sat nav fan. I can drive to within a mile or two of just about anywhere in the UK without consulting a map so I generally just use the sat nav for the very last bit. When I first got the Lexus, I used to programme all my journeys just so the traffic information kept me up to date - but in reality it never worked out that way as the information was either too old or you got it too late (just as you passed the last exit off a motorway before the jam!). Plus, the Lexus sat nav has tried to send me on some very circuitous journeys which I knew were completely wrong.

I'm not going to diss the Lexus, because generally I've loved having the car. But over recent weeks it has become an absolute pig first thing on a (cold) morning or when I leave work at night. You have to rev the bollocks off it to get it to go before dumping the clutch and it is really sluggish for a couple of miles - I've even had to resort to ramming it back into 1st because 2nd just hasn't got the pick up, especially going round roundabouts.