Real Legal Case To Answer To

[fil4362]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...n-999-pass.html

Theres a real legal issue to debate, thats me in the pics so debate away i of course know the out come of the case.

[fil4362]

sorry re post i forgot i had put this up already

[Rob]

what ever happened to the case??

[Parthiban]

As above what was the outcome? I generally don't move through red lights anymore unless it's on quieter streets where I know there'll be no CCTV.

What I don't get is that you haven't even crossed into the junction, just moved over the line. Does that mean that if you just pull up at the lights and accidentally run over the white line, you could get a ticket?

[fil4362]

The verdict is still out officially. After talking to a soliciter friend of mine, who suggested going to the press, i had massive coverage. Just about every paper in the country ran the story not to mention tv and radio. I was even requested to go to Glasgow to do an interview for a radio station up there. BBC radio 2 requested i did and interview with them about a new "wooshing" type siren the police where thinking of using, they wanted to know would it of helped in my situation. I did do this interview as my problem was not hearing the sirens just what to do when i did hear it.

I didnt hear nothing from nobody offical. As in the paper, i was told what to do and what not to do and everyone else (the public) thought it was silly to be done for it. No on ewho commented on what i should or shouldnt have done bothered to contact me to get the details and all gave comment from a gereral overview of the case. I was told that service vehicles are trained to go around stationary vehicles, but as the road was coned off to my right for 100 yards behind me there was no where for the police van to go around, i did for a split second consider getting out and moving some cones for them.

I was also told that i didnt need to move as the vehicle in the left lane should have moved, the driver in the left lane was oblivious to what was happening and didnt move until the car infront of me moved when i moved the car int he left lane must have thought the lights had changed and just drove off.

Anyway i heard nothing from no one,so i sent in the ticket and and didnt hear anything back from that either. My local free paper (who started the press rolling) did ring me to say they had recieved a statement from police to say they wasnt going to proceed with the case but i didnt hear from the police or the ticket office.

So long story short, officialy nothing happened. I didnt get the fine or the points but no one bothered to tell me that officially or explain why i "got off with ti" what happens if i was in same situation again??? i still dont bloody know.

I would like to add that in the daily mail posts on the link i added one copper does state that most of the blues and twos calls by police were a waste of time and not life threatening i think he was implying i should have ignored them. I would like to add again if an emergancy service vehicle does come up behind you please move after all it could be one of your relatives they are rushing to !!!

Oh yes if you cross the white line you get a ticket end of story. i heard from one woman who cantacted me via the press who had a ticket when she braked in the wet and skidded about the same distance across the line as i was. She said she should have put her foot down ont he gas not the brake and will do next time..

Problem is its a machine no human link in the chain, a camera diesnt see situations and make a judgement. I did contact the ticket office who told me the police van in the picture wasnt evidence of what i had done and therefore i still was getting the ticket, so even with humans in the chain there was still no judgment just cross the line get a ticket i am a darlic , issue ticket issue ticket exterminate drivers

[Rob]

i guess that you have posted over on pepipoo and asked the legal experts there??

[Parthiban]

I guess that's good news overall if they haven't pursued it but a shame they couldn't send an official letter stating that fact.

Motoring rules in the country are just idiotic, it's like the old class system and motorists are definitely treated as the lowest possible class.

[fil4362]

I wasnt really bothered about not gettign an official letter of "getting of with it". I personaly am more concerned about the press coverage i had, and now as you can see from the link people are saying they wont move out of the way. I cant tell them diffrently as i still dont know the answer to what to do. Ticket no ticket, move dont move, my other concern is i still dont know what to do should i be in same situation again.Nothing and i do mean nothnig was ever actually cleared up everyone had a comment to say but no one told me the rules,For every expert that said move one said dont move. So what do you do ???? because i dont know

[dave1]

I wasnt really bothered about not gettign an official letter of "getting of with it". I personaly am more concerned about the press coverage i had, and now as you can see from the link people are saying they wont move out of the way. I cant tell them diffrently as i still dont know the answer to what to do. Ticket no ticket, move dont move, my other concern is i still dont know what to do should i be in same situation again.Nothing and i do mean nothnig was ever actually cleared up everyone had a comment to say but no one told me the rules,For every expert that said move one said dont move. So what do you do ???? because i dont know

Technically you have committed an offence, as I posted at the time. The only time that you may cross the stop line if a traffic signal is showing red against you is if directed to by a uniformed police officer, not just because a police vehicle approaches from behind with its blues on. Emergency services drivers are trained to negotiate their way through stationary traffic obstructing their passage and can normally manage it, in fact some would tell you that by moving you could actually make things more difficult in certain circumstances.

I couldn't be bothered trawling the Road Traffic Act again but the following link is fairly conclusive and also gives many more examples of how motorists might break the law with regard to traffic lights.

http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/offences/traffic_lights.htm

Hope this helps with clarification on the matter.

[fil4362]

well sorry to say this Dave but BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Your comment is exaclty what happens when people, and i include the central ticket office dont understand the FULL facts in the case.

The road to my right was coned off for aprox 100 yards behind me due to road works in the area which are clearly in the picture.

With 2 cars at the ligths this effectivley meant the copper had just drove down a dead end. Where exactly would you suggest the copper manouvered to?? knight rider style turbo boost over us or hard right turn through a line of cones or maybe even go left over the pavement.

The guy in the left lane was oblivious to what was happening the guy infront of me moved so i followed making way in the right lane. At this point the guy in the left lane moved, so i stopped not needing to move now. Unfortunalty i was 3 feet over the line. If one of us didnt move then the copper was going nowere. Yes i also know that i shouldnt have moved and the only person needing to move was the guy in the left lane he is still in the same problem as me he would still have gone through a light on red and would still have got a ticket.

As a highly qualified first aid instructor (outdoor pursuitsinstructor, including casualty evac shelter building and long term casualty aid) i know 30 seconds when needing resus can be too long.

Ask your self the question Dave, how far is the ambulance station from your house? How many sets of lights are there for the ambulance to get held up at? Ten seconds at each set of lights the time soon adds up if people dont move!. Same situation again its you on the phone an the ambulance is coming to your house,, would you want people to move??

Oh ye i moved for a copper not an ambulance that doesnt count does it. So lets say the copper was rushing to a report from yor dear old gran a group of hooddies was kicking her front door in? pretty much the same dotn you think.

Blues and twos behind you i suggest you move brake the law or not.

On a lighter note i didnt get the ticket or the fine as after i went public some one higher up the food chain saw the FULL details and decided to drop it. they obviously saw it the way i saw it and decided it was a bad idea to have the population refusing to move.

sorry for my harshness not wanting to cause offense but i wish people would stop quoting the law when really the law needs changing for certain cases. I still know the law saws dont move in the same place again i would still do the same and face the problem again.

[Parthiban]

This really does require clarification imho, but to be fair if I'm on a major road that could have CCTV cameras, I'm not moving. On any other street though I will still get out of the way.

I was wondering whether this applies the other way round as well actually? If you cross a junction just as the light changes, are you safe as long as your front wheels have crossed the white line before the lights go red?

[Dylan69]

Well Phil in my opinion you did exactly the right thing, I wouldn't hesitate to move (as long as it was safe) most of the traffic laws are there as guidelines, We'd be screwed if nobody moved for the blue's and two's and obviously the powers that be agreed you did what needed to be done.

[Parthiban]

obviously the powers that be agreed you did what needed to be done.

But should it have needed to go to the press and all for them to see common sense?

[Dylan69]

obviously the powers that be agreed you did what needed to be done.

But should it have needed to go to the press and all for them to see common sense?

No it shouldn't have come to a summons at all (but thats technology for you)

[dave1]

sorry for my harshness not wanting to cause offense but i wish people would stop quoting the law when really the law needs changing for certain cases. I still know the law saws dont move in the same place again i would still do the same and face the problem again.

I certainly won't take offence and hope that I am also not causing offence, but you said you were not sure of the rules, Your own words were......

"Nothing and i do mean nothnig was ever actually cleared up everyone had a comment to say but no one told me the rules,For every expert that said move one said dont move. So what do you do ???? because i dont know."

I wasn't commenting on whether I agreed or disagreed with the regulations regarding crossing red traffic signals since my opinion is irrelevant. All I was attempting to do was clarify the legal situation for you. If one is aware of the relevant regulations it is then up to the individual to make their own decision as to their actions and any potential consequences.

[fil4362]

sorry for my harshness not wanting to cause offense but i wish people would stop quoting the law when really the law needs changing for certain cases. I still know the law saws dont move in the same place again i would still do the same and face the problem again.

I certainly won't take offence and hope that I am also not causing offence, but you said you were not sure of the rules, Your own words were......

"Nothing and i do mean nothnig was ever actually cleared up everyone had a comment to say but no one told me the rules,For every expert that said move one said dont move. So what do you do ???? because i dont know."

I wasn't commenting on whether I agreed or disagreed with the regulations regarding crossing red traffic signals since my opinion is irrelevant. All I was attempting to do was clarify the legal situation for you. If one is aware of the relevant regulations it is then up to the individual to make their own decision as to their actions and any potential consequences.

To clear up what i do know, The camera that cought me "turns on" 3 seconds after the light goes red. So stopping or movign off as long as you cross the line quicker than 3 seconds after the light goes red your fine. I got caught as i had been sat at the lights for 33 second before i crossed the line. Thats about the only fact i do know in the case.

On the same kind of note, i was sat in traffic at same junction 3 weeks ago one side of the road was completelty closed traffic was queued at the lights. An ambulance nace behind us know one could go nowere so the ambulance turned of the sirens and sat there until the traffic lights changed. This was real clever thing to do, s if people had tried to move out of the way theres some bloody big holes to drive down. I live just outside Manchester city centre and the council are putting the tram through here, theres road work road closures diversions and junctions priorities changing every week its a nightmare. To top it all of its goignto take 2 years to get it all finished so they say.