Engine Transplant...

[AdeV]

This might seem an odd topic, but I'm distantly planning pulling an engine out of an LS (probably from the last of the 4 litres, the 290bhp one...), mating it to a 6-speed manual 'box, and dropping the whole lot (along with a few other bits off the Lexus, like brakes, aircon, etc.) into an old Mk2 Ford Granada estate car...

Sounds mental? Well, yes, it probably is. But I've always loved the old Mk2 grannys - my first car was a Mk2 estate, and I've had 4 saloons at various times. Thing is, I love my LS400 for it's near-total reliability despite being a leggy girl (certainly by Granada standards). Oh, and the fact she'll drink unleaded without knackering the heads (Granny needs 4-star). Comfort wise, I'd say both cars are on a par really; the Granada really is a comfy old barge.

Question is (hah - finally he gets around to it - ed) - how hard-wired is the engine ECU into the car's security system? Just how much of the Lexus will I have to transplant? I plan to move the door lock operators (if poss - Granada ones are rubbish), window winders, etc. But, ultimately, this is about creating a bit of a Q-car, so I'd prefer to keep the Ford ignition key, for example (security will be handled elsewhere). It needs to look exactly like an old Ford, right up until I stomp on the loud pedal at which case it becomes a snarling fire-spitting V8 :) but with super-comfort & refinement on the motorways...

Any thoughts would be much appreciated. e.g. is it possible to get a Lexus V8 running, with it's ECU, on the bench, without an umbilical back to the car it came out of?

Ta!

[beavisrules]

it is all possible , 1UZFE engine is quite popular with kit car building.

havent seen anyone else using a 6 speed bux , usualy its the supa box with an expensive adaptor kit.

If you have lots of time the LS400 wireing is well laid out fairly simple and easy (read few weekends for the lot)to remove.

if you keep stock ecu there will be more work involved keeping the exhaust o2 sensors working correctly.

persoanly I'd dump the ecu & fuel management and got for quad carbs.

for the effort and cost , I'm thinking you could probably do an awesome V6 tubo'd ford lump that would drop straight in.

but to tease you , a few peeps have basicaly done the same thing :3 see:-

http://www.fordcapriforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32955

[AdeV]

it is all possible , 1UZFE engine is quite popular with kit car building.

havent seen anyone else using a 6 speed bux , usualy its the supa box with an expensive adaptor kit.

If you have lots of time the LS400 wireing is well laid out fairly simple and easy (read few weekends for the lot)to remove.

if you keep stock ecu there will be more work involved keeping the exhaust o2 sensors working correctly.

persoanly I'd dump the ecu & fuel management and got for quad carbs.

Ta :) I understand what you're saying about the O2 sensors, etc; but I'd rather keep the stock ECU & EFI - it is after all proven & ultra reliable. Anyway, I plan to use chunks of the Lexus exhaust system anyway, so wherever the O2 sensors are, I should be able to keep the section they're in.

for the effort and cost , I'm thinking you could probably do an awesome V6 tubo'd ford lump that would drop straight in.

but to tease you , a few peeps have basicaly done the same thing :3 see:-

http://www.fordcapriforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32955

I understand what you're saying; but I want the reliability that comes from a Lexus engine. Being a big understressed V8, it's always going to last longer than a V6 screamer, especially with turbos. And most Ford V6 engines are '50s technology...

Ta for the link BTW - the picture of the Cortina means I can definitely do what I'm wanting to (the Granada engine bay is very similar, just a bit bigger). I've already put a big V8 in a Capri (BMW 5 litre ), but that was a race car so we could do loads of cut & shut welding to fit it all in. With the road car, I need to keep tunnel and engine bay modifications to a minimum, otherwise it'll stop looking "stock".

Cheers!

Ade.

[Ruud]

it is all possible , 1UZFE engine is quite popular with kit car building.

havent seen anyone else using a 6 speed bux , usualy its the supa box with an expensive adaptor kit.

If you have lots of time the LS400 wireing is well laid out fairly simple and easy (read few weekends for the lot)to remove.

if you keep stock ecu there will be more work involved keeping the exhaust o2 sensors working correctly.

persoanly I'd dump the ecu & fuel management and got for quad carbs.

Ta :) I understand what you're saying about the O2 sensors, etc; but I'd rather keep the stock ECU & EFI - it is after all proven & ultra reliable. Anyway, I plan to use chunks of the Lexus exhaust system anyway, so wherever the O2 sensors are, I should be able to keep the section they're in.

for the effort and cost , I'm thinking you could probably do an awesome V6 tubo'd ford lump that would drop straight in.

but to tease you , a few peeps have basicaly done the same thing :3 see:-

http://www.fordcapriforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32955

I understand what you're saying; but I want the reliability that comes from a Lexus engine. Being a big understressed V8, it's always going to last longer than a V6 screamer, especially with turbos. And most Ford V6 engines are '50s technology...

Ta for the link BTW - the picture of the Cortina means I can definitely do what I'm wanting to (the Granada engine bay is very similar, just a bit bigger). I've already put a big V8 in a Capri (BMW 5 litre ), but that was a race car so we could do loads of cut & shut welding to fit it all in. With the road car, I need to keep tunnel and engine bay modifications to a minimum, otherwise it'll stop looking "stock".

Cheers!

Ade.

That would be a very interesting project.

I hope you'll make a nice illustrated topic for this :)

[AdeV]

That would be a very interesting project.

I hope you'll make a nice illustrated topic for this :)

I have a feeling I'll end up writing a book or something.... At least it'll have lots of pretty pictures & not much prose in it :)

But, yes, there will be a build log. :)

[garethr]

Usually, the earlier the car, the less problems there are in wiring the ECU into another chassis.

In the case of the 1UZ, the earlier engines (pre-1994?), although a little less powerful, have stronger conrods and no VVTi to worry about, so there may be good reasons for picking the earlier model.

[AdeV]

Usually, the earlier the car, the less problems there are in wiring the ECU into another chassis.

In the case of the 1UZ, the earlier engines (pre-1994?), although a little less powerful, have stronger conrods and no VVTi to worry about, so there may be good reasons for picking the earlier model.

Hmm, interesting... AIUI the engine was unchanged between the Mk1 & Mk2 LS400s; the Mk3 had about 10 more HP, and the Mk4 another 30 on top.

Since I plan to use a manual 'box, I guess it would be handy to have the engine ECU that doesn't also drive the gearbox; however, this only applies to imports I believe?

At the moment... I'm not sure whether to run a stock Mk4 engine (with VVTI & 290bhp), or whether to run an older engine & slap a supercharger on it...

Choices choices...

I've decided that as well as being a practical load-lugger with Lexus reliability, I also fancy taking the car to the track and hooning it occasionally..... hence the extra BHPs...

Still, lots to do before I can get started unfortunately... hope to get going in early May.

[toxo]

You won't get hold of an car where the engine and the transmission ECU are separate. That situation only exists on the JDM Crown Majesta I believe, which are so rare it's untrue. I can only speak for the MKIV (which due to gearbox and VVTi has a unique ECU from previous marques) but a lot of the functions are separated out - ABS & TRC are a separate ECU, body electronics are a separate ECU, etc. Unlike the Toyotas of old the PCB in the ECU isn't silkscreened with a 3 letter code for each pin as there are simply too many of them in too high a density to be able to fit it in!!

I am part way through using a MKIV VVTi engine for a project, at the moment I am dismantling the stock loom and working out pinouts and stuff for the ECU. Fooling it into thinking the gearbox is still there and the selector lever is set in a specific gear seems the best way forward for mating a manual gearbox up.

Have a read of the forums on http://www.v-eight.com/

Edit: I believe a model of GS in the states also got the VVTi engine with the same (fake) 5 speed box as the MKIV, so it's worth trawling the US sites for workshop/wiring diagrams etc.

Edit 2: There are sump differences between the revisions of engine too, if a front sump application is alright for you then no worries, but you can change it to midsump by using a few parts from a Soarer 1UZ, sump, oil pan, baffle plate, oil pickup etc.

[AdeV]

You won't get hold of an car where the engine and the transmission ECU are separate. That situation only exists on the JDM Crown Majesta I believe, which are so rare it's untrue. I can only speak for the MKIV (which due to gearbox and VVTi has a unique ECU from previous marques) but a lot of the functions are separated out - ABS & TRC are a separate ECU, body electronics are a separate ECU, etc. Unlike the Toyotas of old the PCB in the ECU isn't silkscreened with a 3 letter code for each pin as there are simply too many of them in too high a density to be able to fit it in!!

I am part way through using a MKIV VVTi engine for a project, at the moment I am dismantling the stock loom and working out pinouts and stuff for the ECU. Fooling it into thinking the gearbox is still there and the selector lever is set in a specific gear seems the best way forward for mating a manual gearbox up.

Have a read of the forums on http://www.v-eight.com/

Edit: I believe a model of GS in the states also got the VVTi engine with the same (fake) 5 speed box as the MKIV, so it's worth trawling the US sites for workshop/wiring diagrams etc.

Edit 2: There are sump differences between the revisions of engine too, if a front sump application is alright for you then no worries, but you can change it to midsump by using a few parts from a Soarer 1UZ, sump, oil pan, baffle plate, oil pickup etc.

Hi Toxo,

Thanks - I think I will be picking your brains in a few months, if I may? Does anyone know what the engine side of the ECU does with the gearbox info? I can see why it might want kickdown info (to crank the power up). The separate ECUs might be a benefit too, if the sensors aren't too difficult for the traction/abs for example.

I have no fear of modifying the oily bits; I've got a reasonably well equipped machine shop, so I could if necessary make my own sump entirely. If I can find room, I'd quite like to use a dry-sump; this would allow me to mount the engine a bit lower, and a bit further back. The only real gotcha with a dry sump is, where to locate the tank...

What's your project? Top secret, or can you tell us? I, at least, am bound to be interested...

Cheers!

Ade.

[toxo]

Top secret I'm afraid ;) And very much on the back burner at the moment while I sort my MR2 out!

No one really knows a great deal about the ECUs, Toyota ECUs are a particular pain to reverse engineer and you only really get that happening where there's a market for modifications or a lot of enthusiast interest, neither of which is the case with the LS400!