Scraping Noise From Drivers Side

[coolspot]

regarding my drivers side wheel/s (not sure front or back), i wouldnt say its a grinding noise, but a very subtle scraping noise when the wheel spins...

when driving past parked cars on small roads with the window open it can be heard, others from inside it cant...

the disc looks fine..

when doing motorway driving i can hear a high pitched noise (not very loud) which i suspect is the scraping...

any ideas?

[is200 Newbie]

I have just resolved what sounds to be the same problem as you are having - it was driving me to the point where if i could not fix it i was getting rid of the car! I thought it was the front discs and i spent a lot of time trying to find something wrong with them and couldn't.

A lot of help on the forum pointed me to what the fault was.

I have spent a bit of time today on the rear brake drums and taken the car for a run and no noise !! Brilliant.

What everyone pointed me to basically was the groove in the disc was rubbing on the brake shield, and creating the noise.I spent today taking the drum off, cleaning out the groove on the disc with a dremel and grinding down a very small amount of the brake shield. Didn't take long to do really. Its quite easy to see how the noise is created as i did take out quite a bit of rust from the disc which i am pretty sure is the original part and on a 2004 car has lasted well.

I will be renewing therear discs and shoes soon as i think it needs it but give that a go as like i said above - i thought it was coming from the front and it was actually the rear. There is my original post on the main forum called Wheel Noise - have a loot for some sugestions

[coolspot]

how long did it take you and was it easy? im not very good with this stuff.. how much do you think a garage would charge for something like that?

[is200 Newbie]

I am no mechanic but find it good doing things around the car. It took me around two hours to do the work (total time for both sides) - if you can change the brakes on a car then i would say its manageable.

If you are not happy in grinding the brake guard down a bit then i would take the drum off and with a small screwdriver give the groove in the disc a really good clean as a lot of rust came off mine (which would have been rubbing on the guard) which i think was the cause of the squeel as the guard looked clean but i ground a bit off and gave it a good clean for good measure. I am going to replace the discs soon though as they can do with it and they look like to be the original ones and with 100k on the car then it can do with a new set.

I dont know if a garage would know how to cure the problem unless you showed them what to do or at least explained what the symptoms are - Lexus dealer would but i would expect that to cost quite a bit. I have found the advice on the forums spot on and well worth being a member of the club.

[BillNick]

I think I may have this problem as all the sounds and symptoms are the same.

One thing though, that I haven't seen mentioned is that when I brake the noise disappears, and then release the pedal again it comes back.

I am not for one minute challenging your diagnosis IS200 Newbie, but anyone have any suggestions why braking would cause this noise to stop if it is the disc guard fouling?

I also get a loud clicking sound when I apply the brakes in traffic or from a slow speed - could this related?

[is200 Newbie]

Sounds like your brakes at the rear are unbalanced (not that you can balance them) but what it sounds like to me is that you have a sticking caliper - wheel is squeeling when driving / to me its still the brake dust cover but you say its dissapearing when the brakes are applied then appearing again when taking your foot of the brake -

this would suggest that the piston is applying the brake pad to the disc on one side (the inward face of the disc) and moving the pad to the disc but no opposite action bringing the other pad into play, hence moving the disc slightly out of the way from the guard and stopping the squeel.

When you take your foot from the brake the piston returns into the caliper and the noise is back. There must be a bit of flex or movement in the disc which is solid on the rear - theres a lot you can check on the back brakes to see the cause of this - is the wheel on tight / pads / shoes etc

The clicking sound could be the pads sticking on the pins on the rear and releasing under force of them being applied. Initially i would do a good clean of the parts, as with mine, at 100k they just look like they need a bit of attention now (new shoes and discs definately)

[BillNick]

Sounds like a plausible diagnosis, I certainly wouldn't have thought of that! Thanks.

And you are right. I bought the car March 2009 with 74k on the clock and now in Oct 2012 it has done 93k and I haven't even looked at the brakes to see what condition they are in!

I will def get all the wheels off and give each corner a good inspection, clean and general overhaul. I have seen a guide for replacing front brakes, but is there one for the rears? I'll do a search but a link would be handy. There seem to be a few more pins/springs and stuff involved with the rear brakes, it doesn't look as straight forward as the front.

Apart from replacement pads, what else would you suggest I replace or overhaul at the rear seen as I have the wheels off and probably won't want to now for another couple of years?

Thanks again for the response above

[is200 Newbie]

Its an easy job for both front and rear

Front is just a case of :

jack car up - quick check while wheel is off the ground - check bearings by seeing if there's any movement in the wheel by moving it by hand from side to side at both 3/9 and 12/6 oclock positions.

1 / remove the wheel (5 wheel nuts)

2 / remove the caliper (2 bolts holding the caliper on / will need to push the caliper pistons back a bit (there are 2 pistons) to free up the pads to make it easier to remove the caliper from the disc. Make sure you have something to place the caliper on when its off the car to stop it straining the hose. I use a tall paint pot for this. Check the pistons are free and not siezed or sticking by getting someone to keep an eye on them while you slowly press the brake pedal but DO NOT keep pressing the pedal as you WILL push the pistons out. To be on the safe side place a block of wood in the caliper between the piston and edge of caliper leaving a 2cm gap between piston and wood, that way they will not fall out. I open the brake fluid resovour cap when doing this. Push back in when checked.

3 / remove the disc - is not secured onto the hub (no alignment screw like on other cars) - if tight give a small tap with a hammer and it will come off.

4 / at any point after removing the caliper, take out the slide pins , 2 of, (these are on the caliper mounting and are what the caliper is bolted into) clean and re-grease, hi temp grease - this is presuming they are not siezed in. They are not threadded and should pull out - one has a black rubber seal on it - not sure if this is on the top or the bottom pin - i have taken mine off as i dont think it has a use, been off for over a year with no issues (just easier to re-grease in the future as they split if taking out often)

What you want to check - disc pads / slide pins / disc wear / caliper pistons / ball joints - replace as required

Rear just a case of :

Before removing the wheel this time, chock the front and other back one to stop the car from moving then take the handbrake off and if an auto box put into N. MAKE SURE CAR IS SECURE BEFORE JACKING UP As above - jack up car - check bearings - remove wheel

1 / remove the caliper - again two bolts but only one piston on this caliper.Support on paint tin.

2 / strip the pads from the caliper - clean the pins holding the pads on the caliper, they will be rusty and hard to move through the caliper and pads - they need to move and will be causing the pads to stick and cause the clunking you are experiencing.

3 / check the caliper piston as per the front

4 / to remove the disc you will need to back off the inner brake shoes. To do this, take off the plastic bung plug and align this hole to 6oclock. Using a torch you can see a cog inside the drum. I am not sure if it is adjusted up or down but one way will make the disc tighten up (the shoes are being applied to the drum) and the other will loosen the drum so it spins freely. Use a flat head screwdriver to flick this cog up or down so the drum loosens to a point where it can be removed.

5 / i would at this point take the brake shoes off, grind a bit off the lip on the dust shield which is now easy to get to. Also i would replace the shoes and the drum. If its anything like mine its gonna be worn after all those miles. Clean up and put all back together. When putting new drum back on, turn the cog so the disc goes on easy and gradually tighten it - when you can feel the shoes catching then back off a turn so its free, when all together check handbrake in cabin does not have excessive movement - about 3-4 clicks is good.

Once you get into doing the work you will see how easy it is. If not sure on how things go back together then take a picture of it as it is before dismantling.

Same for other side. Takes me about half an hour each corner.

I am sure other members here can add to this.

[BillNick]

Great thanks for the comprehensive guide - this is why I love this forum! Saving me hundreds at the garage!

I read on the US forum that the clunking could be the return springs on the rear pads. Apparently they bend out of shape when the pads get low thus changing their shape and offering less resistance against the pads. Do you know much about that? What should I look for on the return pins? I am reluctant to replace them as they are only available as part of the "rear brake fitting kit" from Toyota priced at £30 - more than a set of Mintex pads!

This is the thread I found: (diagnosis #3)

http://my.is/forums/f89/solutions-rear-brake-noise-342886/

What you think?

[is200 Newbie]

I cant see that as there's no spring on the rear pads - its a clip on the pads held on partly by the brake pad pin through the caliper which is the one you need to give a good clean as this pin, if rusted, could be causing the pads to stick - see the picture below showing the clip with the through pin. Maybe thats a mod for the US market??

The picture below is of the rear disc mounted onto the hub (not a good picture) showing the dust guard and where its inserted into the disc. So you can see there's very little play or room for the rust that builds up.

When i get the time to replace the shoes and discs on the rear i will post a walkthrough with pics.

[BillNick]

I think the US forum was referring to the clip shown in your picture. The bend in the clip acts as a spring I guess. He mentions in another thread to bend the tabs back to give them the tension back that they should have when new.

Many thanks again for your response and help. I have read all I need in order to overhaul my brakes and also cure the clicking and dust guard fouling.

I shall let you know how I get on and no doubt thank you once more after I have done it all. Prob a couple of weeks time.