It's Back Again - The 460 On Ebay

[brendangeorge]

The 460 is back on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181140482667&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

and is at £5300 after 9 bids. I wonder when this cycle will break and somebody buys it? It would be really good to know why the last winner did not buy.

Bren

[Lexmanic]

The 460 is back on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181140482667&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

and is at £5300 after 9 bids. I wonder when this cycle will break and somebody buys it? It would be really good to know why the last winner did not buy.

Bren

Don't assume there's anything wrong with the car. eBay is full of idiots who bid with no intention of completing the sale

[brendangeorge]

The 460 is back on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181140482667&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

and is at £5300 after 9 bids. I wonder when this cycle will break and somebody buys it? It would be really good to know why the last winner did not buy.

Bren

Don't assume there's anything wrong with the car. eBay is full of idiots who bid with no intention of completing the sale

Too true and I may have a punt myself then - there were plenty of bidders last time and the went above £12K I think - which is too high because there are models at dealers for the same or less. Usually if the winner does not want it then the next highest gets the opportunity to buy.

Bren

[mikeyv]

The 460 is back on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181140482667&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

and is at £5300 after 9 bids. I wonder when this cycle will break and somebody buys it? It would be really good to know why the last winner did not buy.

Bren

Don't assume there's anything wrong with the car. eBay is full of idiots who bid with no intention of completing the sale

Too true and I may have a punt myself then - there were plenty of bidders last time and the went above £12K I think - which is too high because there are models at dealers for the same or less. Usually if the winner does not want it then the next highest gets the opportunity to buy.

Bren

The cheapest 460 at a Lexus dealer is just shy of £18K.

This car fetched around £12k first time, then £11k last time IIRC, so bearing in mind it has a problem with cruise control, and balancing that against a fsh and 40,000 miles, but without the main dealer warranty, it's probably not far off the right money at £12,000 - bit of a gamble though, but what a motor.

I see they are also selling a high mile SC430, that makes about 5 Lexus they've had in recently.

[Lexmanic]

I understand they buy from a particular auction house but I have to say their T'c & Cs seem to be very reasonable as they allow winning bidders to refuse the car without sanction PROVIDED they go & see it

[Bluesman]

I understand they buy from a particular auction house but I have to say their T'c & Cs seem to be very reasonable as they allow winning bidders to refuse the car without sanction PROVIDED they go & see it

All there terms & conditions are completely illegal and have no weight in law as pointed out by a fellow LOC member. Mike

[Lexmanic]

I understand they buy from a particular auction house but I have to say their T'c & Cs seem to be very reasonable as they allow winning bidders to refuse the car without sanction PROVIDED they go & see it

All there terms & conditions are completely illegal and have no weight in law as pointed out by a fellow LOC member. Mike

Really! How's that as they consent to you walking away if its not for you

[Lexmanic]

Having checked I agree SOME of their terms are unlawful ie spares or repair etc But as they allow you to walk away from what should be a binding auction, without sanction, I consider does them credit AND may just go some way to mitigate their other unlawful terms.

Their claim that they must sell their way to avoid having to comply with the Sale of Goods Act is also nonsense as you CANNOT opt out of ANY Act simply by claiming so

[Bluesman]

I understand they buy from a particular auction house but I have to say their T'c & Cs seem to be very reasonable as they allow winning bidders to refuse the car without sanction PROVIDED they go & see it

All there terms & conditions are completely illegal and have no weight in law as pointed out by a fellow LOC member. Mike

Really! How's that as they consent to you walking away if its not for you

Its not illegal for them to give you a £50 note either for just turning up but when terms and conditions are laid down that act as a negative action towards the customer, you, then they are illegal.

There are laws which are there to protect you the consumer and these have been hard fought for over many years. You cant as a dealer or other retail outlet think you can put down your own term & conditions and break the law. Its that simple.

You cant be seen to be nice with "yes just turn up is all require you to do" which in itself can involve huge costs depending on where you have come from to negate their position in law.

Mike

[Lexmanic]

I understand they buy from a particular auction house but I have to say their T'c & Cs seem to be very reasonable as they allow winning bidders to refuse the car without sanction PROVIDED they go & see it

All there terms & conditions are completely illegal and have no weight in law as pointed out by a fellow LOC member. Mike

Really! How's that as they consent to you walking away if its not for you

Its not illegal for them to give you a £50 note either for just turning up but when terms and conditions are laid down that act as a negative action towards the customer, you, then they are illegal.

There are laws which are there to protect you the consumer and these have been hard fought for over many years. You cant as a dealer or other retail outlet think you can put down your own term & conditions and break the law. Its that simple.

You cant be seen to be nice with "yes just turn up is all require you to do" which in itself can involve huge costs depending on where you have come from to negate their position in law.

Mike

I'm sorry but what you say is wrong AND I say again the fact that they are prepared to allow the buyer to withdraw from the auction without penalty does work in their favour. As for how far you travel what has that got to do with it. Do you really expect any seller to refund your travel costs cos if you do then I'm lost for words.

[Lexmanic]

Mike I've sent you a PM

[brendangeorge]

Wow a lot of passion here :) I should point out that eBay auctions are
not binding sales in law. If you do not pay you cannot be sued for breach
of contract. If you are buying on an auction site like eBay then it is caveat
emptor - the distance selling rules do not apply. This is why paypal
offers protection etc. The distance selling rules (buying off the
internet) are in place because it is not possible to see the goods before they
are shipped, like in a shop, so you have the right to ask for a refund within 7 days and it has
to be given - even before you ship the goods back - however auction sites are
specifically excluded from this.

In this case they do seem to be fair because they let you walk away without
even negative feedback - WHY? Also why does this car keep coming
back? It is not posted as a classified sale i.e. not an auction so it
seems to be a private sale/ebay lot - so you are on your own. I don't think they
are offering the car as a trader so it is caveat emptor, sale of goods act etc do not apply and is probably why buyers keep walking away.

Bren

[Bluesman]

This one statement taken from their terms & conditions is illegal and has no weight in law.

"and all cars sold by us including
this one, as being sold for the purpose of spares or repair, not fit for
use on the public highway"

All I am saying is that you cannot put statements in your terms & conditions and think that this wipes the slate clean as far as your legal requirements are concerned. They are a retail outfit and consumer law is the same here as it is for every other retail outfit in the country.

The law in this country cannot be swept aside by putting arbitrary statements thinking this will mean you are now free of all legal requirements.

On the three occasions I have had dealings with this company their descriptions of all 3 cars were so wide of the mark as at best they put the wrong description with that car but nore likely they deliberately missed out important info for the car. On the second of the visits the car was said to be in perfect condition had many faults none of which were in the description of the car which is probobly why they have in their terms and conditions that all their cars sold as not roadworthy this one had no brakes.

My point is that if somone deliberately misses out not just one important problem from the description then they should be liable for your travelling exspenses.

Another misleading statement in their auction listings is that they are in Bracknell but this is not true they are actualy 20 miles from Bracknell in Reading.

Mike

[brendangeorge]

This one statement taken from their terms & conditions is illegal and has no weight in law.

"and all cars sold by us including

this one, as being sold for the purpose of spares or repair, not fit for

use on the public highway"

All I am saying is that you cannot put statements in your terms & conditions and think that this wipes the slate clean as far as your legal requirements are concerned. They are a retail outfit and consumer law is the same here as it is for every other retail outfit in the country.

The law in this country cannot be swept aside by putting arbitrary statements thinking this will mean you are now free of all legal requirements.

On the three occasions I have had dealings with this company their descriptions of all 3 cars were so wide of the mark as at best they put the wrong description with that car but nore likely they deliberately missed out important info for the car. On the second of the visits the car was said to be in perfect condition had many faults none of which were in the description of the car which is probobly why they have in their terms and conditions that all their cars sold as not roadworthy this one had no brakes.

My point is that if somone deliberately misses out not just one important problem from the description then they should be liable for your travelling exspenses.

Another misleading statement in their auction listings is that they are in Bracknell but this is not true they are actualy 20 miles from Bracknell in Reading.

Mike

Hi Mike

All of your points are very good but you have to bear in mind this is a private sale - it is like you coming round to my house to buy my old computer - they are not operating as a trader if they sell in this way so all the protection is negated. If you paid for this car with paypal they would probably say we will not protect you.

Bren

[Bluesman]

This one statement taken from their terms & conditions is illegal and has no weight in law.

"and all cars sold by us including

this one, as being sold for the purpose of spares or repair, not fit for

use on the public highway"

All I am saying is that you cannot put statements in your terms & conditions and think that this wipes the slate clean as far as your legal requirements are concerned. They are a retail outfit and consumer law is the same here as it is for every other retail outfit in the country.

The law in this country cannot be swept aside by putting arbitrary statements thinking this will mean you are now free of all legal requirements.

On the three occasions I have had dealings with this company their descriptions of all 3 cars were so wide of the mark as at best they put the wrong description with that car but nore likely they deliberately missed out important info for the car. On the second of the visits the car was said to be in perfect condition had many faults none of which were in the description of the car which is probobly why they have in their terms and conditions that all their cars sold as not roadworthy this one had no brakes.

My point is that if somone deliberately misses out not just one important problem from the description then they should be liable for your travelling exspenses.

Another misleading statement in their auction listings is that they are in Bracknell but this is not true they are actualy 20 miles from Bracknell in Reading.

Mike

Hi Mike

All of your points are very good but you have to bear in mind this is a private sale - it is like you coming round to my house to buy my old computer - they are not operating as a trader if they sell in this way so all the protection is negated. If you paid for this car with paypal they would probably say we will not protect you.

Bren

Hi Bren, Trading standards would not agree with you, they are a business and previously fell foul of Trading Standards which cost them money, it was a wrongly described item which they felt was deliberate rather than error.

This company is registered as a business with eBay and therefore come under the remit of Trading Standards and all the consumer laws within the UK. They cannot hide behind a load of rubbish terms & conditions. Mike

[Lexmanic]

Wow a lot of passion here :) I should point out that ebay auctions are

not binding sales in law. If you do not pay you cannot be sued for breach

of contract. If you are buying on an auction site like ebay then it is caveat

emptor - the distance selling rules do not apply. This is why paypal

offers protection etc. The distance selling rules (buying off the

internet) are in place because it is not possible to see the goods before they

are shipped, like in a shop, so you have the right to ask for a refund within 7 days and it has

to be given - even before you ship the goods back - however auction sites are

specifically excluded from this.

In this case they do seem to be fair because they let you walk away without

even negative feedback - WHY? Also why does this car keep coming

back? It is not posted as a classified sale i.e. not an auction so it

seems to be a private sale/ebay lot - so you are on your own. I don't think they

are offering the car as a trader so it is caveat emptor, sale of goods act etc do not apply and is probably why buyers keep walking away.

Bren

As a result of case law the Sale of Goods Act or part thereof does apply even to private sales If you as a private seller mislead a buyer then you can sued. This came about because a private house buyer had been mislead by the private seller. The Sale of Goods Act is the Common Law made statute. Also whilst not stated in so many words I think their ad makes it clear they are a dealer

[Lexmanic]

This one statement taken from their terms & conditions is illegal and has no weight in law.

"and all cars sold by us including

this one, as being sold for the purpose of spares or repair, not fit for

use on the public highway"

All I am saying is that you cannot put statements in your terms & conditions and think that this wipes the slate clean as far as your legal requirements are concerned. They are a retail outfit and consumer law is the same here as it is for every other retail outfit in the country.

The law in this country cannot be swept aside by putting arbitrary statements thinking this will mean you are now free of all legal requirements.

On the three occasions I have had dealings with this company their descriptions of all 3 cars were so wide of the mark as at best they put the wrong description with that car but nore likely they deliberately missed out important info for the car. On the second of the visits the car was said to be in perfect condition had many faults none of which were in the description of the car which is probobly why they have in their terms and conditions that all their cars sold as not roadworthy this one had no brakes.

My point is that if somone deliberately misses out not just one important problem from the description then they should be liable for your travelling exspenses.

Another misleading statement in their auction listings is that they are in Bracknell but this is not true they are actualy 20 miles from Bracknell in Reading.

Mike

I agree you cannot opt out of a statutory regulation simply by claiming you have & yes I also agree if you have been misled you could demand cover of your travel costs. To have any hope of success the problem would have to pretty obvious & should have been disclosed prior to your visit

[brendangeorge]

Wow a lot of passion here :) I should point out that ebay auctions are

not binding sales in law. If you do not pay you cannot be sued for breach

of contract. If you are buying on an auction site like ebay then it is caveat

emptor - the distance selling rules do not apply. This is why paypal

offers protection etc. The distance selling rules (buying off the

internet) are in place because it is not possible to see the goods before they

are shipped, like in a shop, so you have the right to ask for a refund within 7 days and it has

to be given - even before you ship the goods back - however auction sites are

specifically excluded from this.

In this case they do seem to be fair because they let you walk away without

even negative feedback - WHY? Also why does this car keep coming

back? It is not posted as a classified sale i.e. not an auction so it

seems to be a private sale/ebay lot - so you are on your own. I don't think they

are offering the car as a trader so it is caveat emptor, sale of goods act etc do not apply and is probably why buyers keep walking away.

Bren

As a result of case law the Sale of Goods Act or part thereof does apply even to private sales If you as a private seller mislead a buyer then you can sued. This came about because a private house buyer had been mislead by the private seller. The Sale of Goods Act is the Common Law made statute. Also whilst not stated in so many words I think their ad makes it clear they are a dealer

You cannot compare an eBay aution to the sale of a house that is subject to a contract and a lot of regulation. If these guys are traders then they are subject to full redress - there are a lot of regs and they cover distance selling but they exclude internet auction sites specifically. It is not allowed for a trader to mascarade as a private seller - trading standards will not like that.

It would be great to hear from one of the winners, of the eBay auctions that this car has been the lot, why they did not buy.

Bren

[Bluesman]

Wow a lot of passion here :) I should point out that ebay auctions are

not binding sales in law. If you do not pay you cannot be sued for breach

of contract. If you are buying on an auction site like ebay then it is caveat

emptor - the distance selling rules do not apply. This is why paypal

offers protection etc. The distance selling rules (buying off the

internet) are in place because it is not possible to see the goods before they

are shipped, like in a shop, so you have the right to ask for a refund within 7 days and it has

to be given - even before you ship the goods back - however auction sites are

specifically excluded from this.

In this case they do seem to be fair because they let you walk away without

even negative feedback - WHY? Also why does this car keep coming

back? It is not posted as a classified sale i.e. not an auction so it

seems to be a private sale/ebay lot - so you are on your own. I don't think they

are offering the car as a trader so it is caveat emptor, sale of goods act etc do not apply and is probably why buyers keep walking away.

Bren

As a result of case law the Sale of Goods Act or part thereof does apply even to private sales If you as a private seller mislead a buyer then you can sued. This came about because a private house buyer had been mislead by the private seller. The Sale of Goods Act is the Common Law made statute. Also whilst not stated in so many words I think their ad makes it clear they are a dealer

Thats what I was saying. Shall we leave it here and just get back to enjoying our cars? Mike

[Bluesman]

Wow a lot of passion here :) I should point out that ebay auctions are

not binding sales in law. If you do not pay you cannot be sued for breach

of contract. If you are buying on an auction site like ebay then it is caveat

emptor - the distance selling rules do not apply. This is why paypal

offers protection etc. The distance selling rules (buying off the

internet) are in place because it is not possible to see the goods before they

are shipped, like in a shop, so you have the right to ask for a refund within 7 days and it has

to be given - even before you ship the goods back - however auction sites are

specifically excluded from this.

In this case they do seem to be fair because they let you walk away without

even negative feedback - WHY? Also why does this car keep coming

back? It is not posted as a classified sale i.e. not an auction so it

seems to be a private sale/ebay lot - so you are on your own. I don't think they

are offering the car as a trader so it is caveat emptor, sale of goods act etc do not apply and is probably why buyers keep walking away.

Bren

As a result of case law the Sale of Goods Act or part thereof does apply even to private sales If you as a private seller mislead a buyer then you can sued. This came about because a private house buyer had been mislead by the private seller. The Sale of Goods Act is the Common Law made statute. Also whilst not stated in so many words I think their ad makes it clear they are a dealer

You cannot compare an eBay aution to the sale of a house that is subject to a contract and a lot of regulation. If these guys are traders then they are subject to full redress - there are a lot of regs and they cover distance selling but they exclude internet auction sites specifically. It is not allowed for a trader to mascarade as a private seller - trading standards will not like that.

It would be great to hear from one of the winners, of the eBay auctions that this car has been the lot, why they did not buy.

Bren

Hi Bren, The cars that I was involved with from these guys had dozens of faults and some of them were serious ie no brakes but the car had a new MOT and was described as being in great condition.

They are well known in this area and would not be surprised to see them starring in Watchdog. Mike

[brendangeorge]

Wow a lot of passion here :) I should point out that ebay auctions are

not binding sales in law. If you do not pay you cannot be sued for breach

of contract. If you are buying on an auction site like ebay then it is caveat

emptor - the distance selling rules do not apply. This is why paypal

offers protection etc. The distance selling rules (buying off the

internet) are in place because it is not possible to see the goods before they

are shipped, like in a shop, so you have the right to ask for a refund within 7 days and it has

to be given - even before you ship the goods back - however auction sites are

specifically excluded from this.

In this case they do seem to be fair because they let you walk away without

even negative feedback - WHY? Also why does this car keep coming

back? It is not posted as a classified sale i.e. not an auction so it

seems to be a private sale/ebay lot - so you are on your own. I don't think they

are offering the car as a trader so it is caveat emptor, sale of goods act etc do not apply and is probably why buyers keep walking away.

Bren

As a result of case law the Sale of Goods Act or part thereof does apply even to private sales If you as a private seller mislead a buyer then you can sued. This came about because a private house buyer had been mislead by the private seller. The Sale of Goods Act is the Common Law made statute. Also whilst not stated in so many words I think their ad makes it clear they are a dealer

You cannot compare an eBay aution to the sale of a house that is subject to a contract and a lot of regulation. If these guys are traders then they are subject to full redress - there are a lot of regs and they cover distance selling but they exclude internet auction sites specifically. It is not allowed for a trader to mascarade as a private seller - trading standards will not like that.

It would be great to hear from one of the winners, of the eBay auctions that this car has been the lot, why they did not buy.

Bren

Hi Bren, The cars that I was involved with from these guys had dozens of faults and some of them were serious ie no brakes but the car had a new MOT and was described as being in great condition.

They are well known in this area and would not be surprised to see them starring in Watchdog. Mike

Don't missunderstand me - I am sure they are traders and I am sure they are selling old "Rovers" and any sensible person should steer well clear.

As Mike said we should all get back to enjoying our cars - or in my case fixing the Nav system DVD player in my 430 :(.

Bren

[Bluesman]

Wow a lot of passion here :) I should point out that ebay auctions are

not binding sales in law. If you do not pay you cannot be sued for breach

of contract. If you are buying on an auction site like ebay then it is caveat

emptor - the distance selling rules do not apply. This is why paypal

offers protection etc. The distance selling rules (buying off the

internet) are in place because it is not possible to see the goods before they

are shipped, like in a shop, so you have the right to ask for a refund within 7 days and it has

to be given - even before you ship the goods back - however auction sites are

specifically excluded from this.

In this case they do seem to be fair because they let you walk away without

even negative feedback - WHY? Also why does this car keep coming

back? It is not posted as a classified sale i.e. not an auction so it

seems to be a private sale/ebay lot - so you are on your own. I don't think they

are offering the car as a trader so it is caveat emptor, sale of goods act etc do not apply and is probably why buyers keep walking away.

Bren

As a result of case law the Sale of Goods Act or part thereof does apply even to private sales If you as a private seller mislead a buyer then you can sued. This came about because a private house buyer had been mislead by the private seller. The Sale of Goods Act is the Common Law made statute. Also whilst not stated in so many words I think their ad makes it clear they are a dealer

You cannot compare an eBay aution to the sale of a house that is subject to a contract and a lot of regulation. If these guys are traders then they are subject to full redress - there are a lot of regs and they cover distance selling but they exclude internet auction sites specifically. It is not allowed for a trader to mascarade as a private seller - trading standards will not like that.

It would be great to hear from one of the winners, of the eBay auctions that this car has been the lot, why they did not buy.

Bren

Hi Bren, The cars that I was involved with from these guys had dozens of faults and some of them were serious ie no brakes but the car had a new MOT and was described as being in great condition.

They are well known in this area and would not be surprised to see them starring in Watchdog. Mike

Don't missunderstand me - I am sure they are traders and I am sure they are selling old "Rovers" and any sensible person should steer well clear.

As Mike said we should all get back to enjoying our cars - or in my case fixing the Nav system DVD player in my 430 :(.

Bren

Rather you than me. Good luck Mike

[Maduggo]

Getting a chair and a cuppa to continue viewing this enthralling Lexus civilized discussion.

[brendangeorge]

Getting a chair and a cuppa to continue viewing this enthralling Lexus civilized discussion.

You are not being a stirrer are you Chris?

[Lexmanic]

Being now aware that they've already come a cropper with TS allegedly I now suggest avoiding them like the plague