Flat Battery On 400H Despite Lexus Renewals

[Stevie C-D]

Last Saturday arrived back at Manchester airport after 16days away. We had parked in the meet and great at T2, so our 2009 400h had that morning been moved from the holding car park to T2 and into a numbered bay near the terminal. Got the key went to the car, opened the doors and the power boot/trunk door, loaded up all the wife's Florida shopping, got in and it would not get itself into the ready mode. Double checked the starting procedure, but the Battery just became flatter and flatter. Called the Lexus helpline and arranged the AA van to sort us out and get on our way (they arrived within 20 mins) also called the dealer, who should of been open at 9 in the morning. Left a voice message, explained the situation and that I was worried it might be the inverter broken (the same inverter they were replacing 2 days later) But as they never called back, asked the service guy on Monday about the problem. All I seemed to get was the standard reply "yes that happens after 2 weeks in an RX"

The Volkswagen Toureg we hired in Florida was a really nice car...............

[DanD]

Thanks Derek- Glad you found a solution to the same problem - albeit by buying a 450H. I assume that was not a reason for purchase.

I see that Lexus.com have a question and answer to this topic on their 450H web site- as below.

Interestingly, it seems from Lexus that you can start a 450H directly from the petrol engine- but not an option possible with the 400H. Unless someone knows otherwise .... Anyone know how?

Enjoy your 450H. Sold your solar charger yet? David.

CAN I LEAVE MY LEXUS HYBRID DRIVE VEHICLE FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME, WHILE ON HOLIDAY FOR EXAMPLE, WITHOUT HAVING TO RECHARGE THE BATTERY?

Answer. "As with all vehicles, if left for an extended period of time without use, especially in severe weather conditions, it may need recharging. However, in the unlikely event that the battery discharges completely, the petrol engine will start the car".

hmmm... seems to me that they are referring to the hybrid Battery pack... not the small Battery in the engine bay that you will need to start the car and that is giving you grief. At any rate, if that latter Battery has gone flat I guess that you won't be able to open the doors anyway, will you?.

[Surfbum]

Hi Dan;

Time to move on from the 400H...got an excellent trade in price plus protection pack thrown in from Lexus.Got to say I have really enjoyed owning the 400H apart from the Battery issue; although for the last 4 yrs the solar charger has done its job and have not had any dead Battery problems.

Even when the Battery is dead one can still open the doors using the key and not remote blipper..initially I was using a booster pack to fire up the engine when the Battery was dead so carried that around under the drivers seat.Then started using the solar charger and never had to use the booster power pack again.

[billygarrett]

Hi Jason,

Thanks for suggestion, but no, everything correctly switched off, as proved by Lexus own tests.

It's been repeatedly happening, despite full Lexus check over and new Lexus batteries.

Lexus agent confirms that it is a real common problem, for which there is no known fix!

I have been advised to carry a spare battery and use jump leads, or phone RAC/AA if leaving unused for a week or two.

Apparently, once it happens, you can never solve it, however many new Lexus/ Toyota batteries you keep buying from them.

HELP neded from someone who owns a 400H, and who has repeatedly had the same problem- and solved it!

Thanks,

David

Why oh why will nobody listen? The 400h does NOT work with a conventional car Battery! There is no starter motor as such and it does not need high cranking amps. It needs a deep cycle leisure type Battery. I got sick of this problem after 2 replacements and bought an Optima Yellow Top http://www.optimabatteries.co.uk/en/ There are several retailers who will advise on the model you need. Mine is the exact shape and size and was around £140 but well WORTH it! I have had no problems since fitting it and it has also cured the annoying "check VSC" etc faults that I kept having which I had to clear with a "ScanGauge" It is a disgrace that Lexus will not fit this type of battery on a £45K car.

BTW, if you connect a charger or another Battery to the terminals while changing batteries , you won't need to reprogramme radio etc...

[nelmo]

Why oh why will nobody listen?

...er...to listen, we need to have heard it once before. This thread started 3 months ago and this is the first time you've posted in it...that's why....

But interesting idea...surely Lexus would have thought about that at the design stage? What is the difference between a 'deep-cycle leisure battery' and a normal one?

There must be a good reason why they don't do that, surely? (And I doubt it's the extra £100 cost per car).

[billygarrett]

Why oh why will nobody listen?

...er...to listen, we need to have heard it once before. This thread started 3 months ago and this is the first time you've posted in it...that's why....

But interesting idea...surely Lexus would have thought about that at the design stage? What is the difference between a 'deep-cycle leisure battery' and a normal one?

There must be a good reason why they don't do that, surely? (And I doubt it's the extra £100 cost per car).

Sorry! When I say .... "nobody listens" when I refer to the numerous posts I put on other 400h forums and when I talk to Lexus.

It is so frustrating seeing people trying other solutions when the answer is so simple!!! OPTIMA YELLOW TOP!!!!

Normal car batteries stop delivering current much sooner than deep cycle Leisure batteries which are dsigned for slow deep disccahrge. If you google leisure batteries you will find more detail.

Or look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_cycle_battery

WiKi: The structural difference between deep cycle batteries and cranking

batteries is in the lead Battery plates. Deep cycle Battery plates have

thicker active plates, with higher-density active paste material and

thicker separators. alloys used for the plates in a deep cycle Battery

may contain more antimony than starting batteries.^[3] The thicker Battery plates resist corrosion through extended charge and discharge cycles.

Actually the Optima serves both puroses, but I don't know how it does it. I am delighted with its performance. I can now sit in the car park listening to the radio without the engine on "ready" as before, while waiting for my wife to do the shopping!!!

[daviddavid]

Thank you Billy for your wisdom/ recommendation for the OPTIMA Yellow Top Battery on the 400H.

For newcomers to the group who, like me, have the persistent flat Toyota Battery problem, may I recap the situation, as I understand it.

It is a real and awful problem for many 400H owners. Not for all owners, but for some.

Some owners never have had the problem and therefore do not understand its weirdness. Nor its awfullness.

But others are repeatedly plagued by it, as I have been. Some owners have even sold their cars to get rid of the problem.

Once you have the problem, the problem tries hard to avoid totally going away. The problem is not solved by home engineering. In desperation and disbelief, some members in this group have gained some respite by resorting to solar chargers, fitting Bosch S4/158 Battery, taking additional Break down membership, re-wiring sockets, permanently fitting jump batteries etc, going for drives just to keep the Battery alive, putting on overnight charge etc. Unbelievable that we have to do this on such an expensive car!

And it is still so embarassing not knowing if the 400H will still let you down just before school runs, giving lifts etc.

In desperation, I had my 400H re-wired to accomodate Solar panels, jump batteries, hard wired sockets etc, isolation switches.
Creative Car Sounds in London, (0208 364 1002), did a great job for me doing all this. Highly recommended.

Lexus will not do anything about it - They don't want to know about it. There is no room under the bonnet for a larger Battery (but there could be under the boot floor!).

HOWEVER , The OPTIMA Yellow Top Deep Cycle Battery, ref "4.2", has been most highly recommended, by a fellow sufferer, as the ULTIMATE Battery to help resolve the problem. (So, belatedly, I finally ordered mine from Sue at Optima UK, tel: 01953 881 330). Foolishly, I had originally ignored this earlier advice, thinking that other methods would cure it. They did not!

Of course, it is not cheap, at double a normal Battery price, but a bargain!, having spent miserable and embarassing times with this very dead, top of the range car, I'll try (and have tried) anything that experienced members who have had this exact same problem, recommend.

This specific Optima Yellow Top Battery is currently certainly the best solution and is definitely worth going for.

Good luck all fellow sufferers. And thanks to invaluable guidance re Batteries, especially Billy, my saviour, for "The Optima Yellow Top" advice. Have a reliable winter all. Keep in touch, keep motoring. David.

[billygarrett]

Thank you Billy for your wisdom/ recommendation for the OPTIMA Yellow Top battery on the 400H.

For newcomers to the group who, like me, have the persistent flat Toyota battery problem, may I recap the situation, as I understand it.

It is a real and awful problem for many 400H owners. Not for all owners, but for some.

Some owners never have had the problem and therefore do not understand its weirdness. Nor its awfullness.

But others are repeatedly plagued by it, as I have been. Some owners have even sold their cars to get rid of the problem.

Once you have the problem, the problem tries hard to avoid totally going away. The problem is not solved by home engineering. In desperation and disbelief, some members in this group have gained some respite by resorting to solar chargers, fitting Bosch S4/158 battery, taking additional Break down membership, re-wiring sockets, permanently fitting jump batteries etc, going for drives just to keep the battery alive, putting on overnight charge etc. Unbelievable that we have to do this on such an expensive car!

And it is still so embarassing not knowing if the 400H will still let you down just before school runs, giving lifts etc.

In desperation, I had my 400H re-wired to accomodate Solar panels, jump batteries, hard wired sockets etc, isolation switches.

Creative Car Sounds in London, (0208 364 1002), did a great job for me doing all this. Highly recommended.

Lexus will not do anything about it - They don't want to know about it. There is no room under the bonnet for a larger battery (but there could be under the boot floor!).

HOWEVER , The OPTIMA Yellow Top Deep Cycle battery, ref "4.2", has been most highly recommended, by a fellow sufferer, as the ULTIMATE battery to help resolve the problem. (So, belatedly, I finally ordered mine from Sue at Optima UK, tel: 01953 881 330). Foolishly, I had originally ignored this earlier advice, thinking that other methods would cure it. They did not!

Of course, it is not cheap, at double a normal battery price, but a bargain!, having spent miserable and embarassing times with this very dead, top of the range car, I'll try (and have tried) anything that experienced members who have had this exact same problem, recommend.

This specific Optima Yellow Top battery is currently certainly the best solution and is definitely worth going for.

Good luck all fellow sufferers. And thanks to invaluable guidance re Batteries, especially Billy, my saviour, for "The Optima Yellow Top" advice. Have a reliable winter all. Keep in touch, keep motoring. David.

That was fast work David

I am sure you will be as delighted with it as I am

Thank you for your kind comments

Billy

[billygarrett]

Thank you Billy for your wisdom/ recommendation for the OPTIMA Yellow Top battery on the 400H.

For newcomers to the group who, like me, have the persistent flat Toyota battery problem, may I recap the situation, as I understand it.

It is a real and awful problem for many 400H owners. Not for all owners, but for some.

Some owners never have had the problem and therefore do not understand its weirdness. Nor its awfullness.

But others are repeatedly plagued by it, as I have been. Some owners have even sold their cars to get rid of the problem.

Once you have the problem, the problem tries hard to avoid totally going away. The problem is not solved by home engineering. In desperation and disbelief, some members in this group have gained some respite by resorting to solar chargers, fitting Bosch S4/158 battery, taking additional Break down membership, re-wiring sockets, permanently fitting jump batteries etc, going for drives just to keep the battery alive, putting on overnight charge etc. Unbelievable that we have to do this on such an expensive car!

And it is still so embarassing not knowing if the 400H will still let you down just before school runs, giving lifts etc.

In desperation, I had my 400H re-wired to accomodate Solar panels, jump batteries, hard wired sockets etc, isolation switches.

Creative Car Sounds in London, (0208 364 1002), did a great job for me doing all this. Highly recommended.

Lexus will not do anything about it - They don't want to know about it. There is no room under the bonnet for a larger battery (but there could be under the boot floor!).

HOWEVER , The OPTIMA Yellow Top Deep Cycle battery, ref "4.2", has been most highly recommended, by a fellow sufferer, as the ULTIMATE battery to help resolve the problem. (So, belatedly, I finally ordered mine from Sue at Optima UK, tel: 01953 881 330). Foolishly, I had originally ignored this earlier advice, thinking that other methods would cure it. They did not!

Of course, it is not cheap, at double a normal battery price, but a bargain!, having spent miserable and embarassing times with this very dead, top of the range car, I'll try (and have tried) anything that experienced members who have had this exact same problem, recommend.

This specific Optima Yellow Top battery is currently certainly the best solution and is definitely worth going for.

Good luck all fellow sufferers. And thanks to invaluable guidance re Batteries, especially Billy, my saviour, for "The Optima Yellow Top" advice. Have a reliable winter all. Keep in touch, keep motoring. David.

That was fast work David

I am sure you will be as delighted with it as I am

Thank you for your kind comments

Billy

[DanD]

I notice that there are some posts/threads that are "pinned" to the top of the list of threads. I wonder if this one could be added to the list as it contains useful info that affects a lot of RX400h owners and may prevent new threads being created on the same topic.

[kmt007]

A small solar panel from maplins will solve your problem with the Battery, it works for me, the solar pane fits on the dashboard and trickle charges the Battery,

[derekl]

I have exactly the same issue. Also if I leave the ignition key in for say 30 minutes with the engine off and say the radio on, but no lights or anything else on, then the Battery will again be flat. Doesn't look good for Lexus having to jump start a hybrid!

[Duncan Roberts]

Just switch it to 'ready' - a normal can discharge in such circumstances.

[daviddavid]

Dear DerekL, Welcome fellow sufferer. Perhaps we should form our own lobby group! Hope our hints help. Happy Christmas, David.

[stevet]

Does this just affect a few? I've never had a problem but longest I've left the car is 10 days and started ok.

[billygarrett]

A small solar panel from maplins will solve your problem with the battery, it works for me, the solar pane fits on the dashboard and trickle charges the battery,

[billygarrett]

A small solar panel from maplins will solve your problem with the battery, it works for me, the solar pane fits on the dashboard and trickle charges the battery,

I presume this solar panel charger would be plugged into the cigarette lighter socket?

Is that is the case it would not work on my car because the cigarette lighter socket is dead unless the ignition is turned on

Thanks anyway

Billy

[billygarrett]

I have exactly the same issue. Also if I leave the ignition key in for say 30 minutes with the engine off and say the radio on, but no lights or anything else on, then the battery will again be flat. Doesn't look good for Lexus having to jump start a hybrid![/quote

That was exactly my problem and the reason why I put the optimum yellow top battery in to replace the existing battery

Many thanks

Billy

[CJHYBRID]

Just like to reiterate that this sort of problem is not a standard feature.My wife and my Mum have just returned from a 11 night cruise leaving my 400h at Southampton .

To my horror when I asked the valet parking if I could park my own car as I needed to fit a solar trickle charger I was told that this would not be possible and not to worry they would help if there was a problem on return.

Came back to an extremely windy and rainy Southampton this morning and Lexis doors unlocked turned the key saw the ready light and after a minute she burbled into silky smooth life. We drove the 110 miles to relatives for Christmas in silent comfort in what can only be described as atrocious weather conditions . The more I own this car the more I like it.

Ps it has an Exide non Lexus replacement Battery.

Best regards

Chris

[lurch]

A small solar panel from maplins will solve your problem with the battery, it works for me, the solar pane fits on the dashboard and trickle charges the battery,

I presume this solar panel charger would be plugged into the cigarette lighter socket?

Is that is the case it would not work on my car because the cigarette lighter socket is dead unless the ignition is turned on

Thanks anyway

Billy

I have one it plugs into the 16pin code reader plug under dash r/h side or via crocodile clips directly onto Battery terminals. So live .

[DanD]

I wonder why this seems to affect some cars only. Fingers crossed, I have not had such problems... to date at least.

However, having picked up hints from this forum, I always ensure I leave the car in READY mode when I vacuum the inside, or if I leave the boot open for any extended period.

Question: While I understand that the capacity of the Battery is perceived as an issue, are we all not barking at the wrong tree? - Should we not try and identify what is causing the Battery to go flat in the first place? If ALL cars were affected, I could understand that the problem is 100% Battery related, but given that not all cars are affected, does this not point to another problem of which the Battery is simply a casualty?

Of course, I am not referring to problems caused by radio being left on, or doors being left open, but to cars being left standing for a few days.

Maybe we should consider putting a survey together to help build a proper understanding of the problem and its amplitude (% of cars actually affected):

- age of car / age of Battery

- mileage covered by such cars

- are affected cars used for long or short journeys

- geographical location (I'm thinking impact of temperature)

- year of manufacture

- model (for instance with / without SATNAV

- isolated or recurring incidents

- how long was the car left unused when the problem occured (is there a threshold? - 10 days OK, but two weeks is not)

- has the car been fitted with any add ons that could potentially impact electrical drain (tow bar, etc)

Maybe others could add to this list of questions over the next couple of weeks, and I'll consolidate into one post for people to respond to. Ouput could be posted to Lexus.

I have not bothered to check, but I am assuming that this is not a problem that is endemic to UK models only... Such an exercise may potentially reveal that only a tiny percentage of RX400h are affected, which could explain why Lexus have never bothered to do antyhing about it.

What do you all think?