Linas.P

That is the best part, hides that blood well ! Quite high miles as well.... the only car which was close to it was ~50k black RC-F which sold quite quickly at £27.5k with I believe had Quicksilver exhaust as well. maybe owner realised how dare is his situation to sell it now (with that mileage) and decided it would be better to crash it, get insurance money and then sell car for £13k.... £13k is actually good price considering how expensive parts are, just a bit hard to tell if it has TVD etc... @Comedian - here is your solution, I believe front seats are plug-n-play as for the rest you will figure out - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEXUS-GS-GSF-F-SPORT-COMPLETE-INTERIOR-SEAT-LEATHER-DOOR-PANEL-RHD/322923160776?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Yes.. technically you are right it is not "illegal" as the goverment can decide themselves when it is or isn't.... It is more like "white wash/lie" where politicians have no responsibility or commitments, can promise anything and are legally allowed to lie ( e.g. Wheeler v PM or Begbie v PM) - it is considered "political" and not legal matter. Still it is unfair.... let's not forget they raise £36bn from motorists every year anyway, out of which they don't spend even £4bn on roads, so claim that Dartford crossing needs "maintenance fund" is lie - they already have £32bn which they simply spend elsewhere.. Obviously, it is impossible to discuss this matter without acknowledging we are not living in "(representative) democracy", more likely "pseudo-democratic parliamentary dictatorship/monarchy".

Just noticed there is petition to make dartford crossing free... surprisingly there has not been one before as government promised to make it free in 2003 as planned, but kept illegally chagrin for it. Question obviously what difference does it make - goverment lied before, lying now and probably will continue to do so... Just to note - the plan in 1991 when the project to build the bridge was put in place it was planned that crossing will be toll road for 15 years until the original cost is paid back (2006), because of higher use then expected the costs were actually covered by 1999 and in 2001 goverment promised to remove tolls, but as of today it is still toll road making nice £70 million of illegal charges every year. https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/petition-launched-wake-dartford-crossing-1909888 https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/227567

My point was not hat service would be missing (it doesn't cost them much to do it anyway), it was that it might not be documented. As was the case for my car as well..

That is what I was referring to - Lexus can simply approve any car if they satisfied with condition on the day.

It is kind of similar to my car history - It was owned by Lexus as official first owner for 3 years and 20k miles and service history starts from 30k miles minor service and first 2 stamps are missing, obvious difference all services after that were properly stamped and invoices included for 10 services. The point - it seems service history can be cloudy under Lexus ownership... As far as I know Lexus can issue and stamp new service book even if they don't have history of it (based on their quality assurance policy and own inspection) - that is especially true if it is "used approved car"... I am sure if you push on this point, next time you view the car service book will be fully stamped 😄

In other hand it seems like Lexus is pushing this ugly colour for some unknown reason...

******hell.... it would be perfect choice - TVD, ACC/PCS and sunroof..... but that colour combo .... why would anyone 😡.... I guess that is reflected in the price!

It is £1025 cheaper, but not "like for like" (as per above post), had Lexus not discontinued GS we would not have this discussion either + I consider that newer car must have more standard equipment (even thought I agree that is practically not always the case) e.g. if in 2012 8" screen was standard and 12.3" was premium, then model in 2018 must have 12.3" standard and 14" premium. Well except of the fact that 450h is no-more, that is what I meant RWD300h>FWD300h...... 300h is sluggish anyway, I don't think I need to remind it.

That is irrelevant, especially NX... SUVs are "non-driver" cars.... my whole argument was around ex-GS being capable drivers car which could be enjoyed on the road - unlike ES. As for specifics I must admit it is my ignorance (and not lies) - I do not consider entry trims as worthy a consideration, I simply filter them out or skip - they do not exist for me... hence I have this illusion that Lexus comes well equipped standard - that certainly stands true when looking to used F-Sports and Premiers (I do not even acknowledged lesser grades exists). e.g. like GS300h Exec... I would have just turn blind eye on it's existence. @spacenase - you are right - I remember mk3 IS coming out and it had much poorer equipment then late mk2 it replaced. In short - I had this wrong perception because I was comparing outgoing GS450h F-sport/Premier to upcoming ESxxx as like for like and obviously I was wrong here, because base ES300h is really just replacement for GS300h Exec which starts at £36,125. So comparison would be more like: ES300h (~base) vs. GS300h Exec vs. IS300h Advance Price £35,150 vs. £36,125 vs. £34,900 Interior Tahara vs. Premium Leather vs. Premium Leather Infotainment 8" vs. 12.3" vs. 7" There are some other small differences, but in general vs. GS Leather (~£900) + what was "Premium Nav" (~£1900) is worth much more then £1025 price difference, or in case of IS it is even cheaper with ~same spec + leather. On flip side you get Sunroof in ES (£1000) whenever you like it or not (find it quite strange they equip effectively all cars with sunroofs). In summary, I might wrong about many thing, but it still seems ES not only costs slightly more than as GS/IS "like-for-like", but as well it is based on inferiour drivetrain. I tried to do further comparison on US pricing, but upon learning ES350 costs $39500, whereas ES300h will be $41310 I got madly angry and stopped there (a proper car cheaper then ****** hybrid).... In fact that is what I was saying all along 350 is tried and tested cheap technology - if we would have 350 here in UK it should be cheaper then 300h and that is literally nobrainer. @Jamesf1 - it was discussed many times - considering brand recognition in market Lexus should sell their cars cheaper in UK to attract customers... They got it completely wrong with GS450h which from introduction was priced between BMW540i and M5, instead of ~530D and 540i... it should have always been cheaper and not more expensive than 540i to sell.

Maybe "shift lock/unlock", in case you need to change gear to N for pushing car ? Quite standard on auto cars...

I think my mistake was to assume, that all what is standard in GS450h is standard in GS300h as well. Now clearly ES300h is replacing ~GS300h and not 450h, so it is correct to compare them in terms of price and equipment like for like, so you right ES probably isn't missing much from GS300h equipment... I guess here my only "negative narrative" is that nothing is replacing GS450h (kind of obvious) and that will be outright loss in the range..

Quite similar to white goods in that regard... Toyota Corolla used to be compared to the fridges in the past (as "soulless", boring, but practical and reliable), now I thin Korean makers replaced that market... not sure if that is positive or negative.

Not sure that is true. Sunroof is not standard on ES surely? 2018 GS has 12 Inch screen and certainly privacy glass. As well I tend to believe it has RCTA and BSM... or am I confusing it with 450h, which is obviously £20k more expensive?

I am quite busy as well... to be honest... but work has to wait when somebody triggers me stating that 300h is not slugging, because it is faster than Prius 😄

Exactly - subjectively, so you playing devils advocate here... Objective way is to compare them by the features they have/don't have... to say it doesn't really matter ... well that is an "opinion". Subjectively, GS cannot be configured in UK as AWD, but it doesn't need to because it is RWD...

If only would that be last pages (more like half of 29 pages).... Maybe it is going to bring us to better understanding and enlightenment - argument is not necessary the bad thing 😄 It is not like we going to run out of the pages or server memory on LOC site? is it?

Can you point out where I am trying to pass my opinion as a fact? Does ES have RTCA and BSM in standard equipment as GS? Does ES have premium leather in standard equipment as GS? Does ES have engine option like 450h as GS? and can it be ordered in RWD or at least AWD option? Answer to all is - NO... and that is not opinion.

You are right about NX, missed that.. which IS has it? I might be wrong, but google brings no results with "Tahara + IS". As for inferiour to GS opinion vs. fact. Here is the thing, it is inferiour because of inferiour drive train, inferiour engine options, inferiour standard equipment, inferiour materials used inside (tahara)... that is not opinion - that is black and white facts in the public domain. We can have opinions on non-factual things like looks and feels, but I don't need to drive either of the cars to be able to say that FWD is inferiour to RWD or that Tahara is inferiour to Nappa (semi-aniline leather), or that car with standard RCTA and BSM is superiour to one without it. Do we really need to clarify definition of what "opinion" or the "fact" means.

Because that is where it sits to this day... It is inferiour model to GS - just a fact... some wishful souls hoped that it would at least be cheaper. Reality is that Lexus just going to replace one poorly selling car with other one which will be just as poorly selling + inferiour in any measurable way. Reason for ES selling well in US, is simply low price and brand recognition ... neither of which Lexus have or going to offer in UK. See no reason why anyone would consider it instead of say BMW 5-Series or more comparable WV Arteon. As for poor ride quality - that is personal thing I guess, I don't think they have bad ride. Later GS'es tried to be more sporty, german like performance saloons, whereas author is probably more after old-style floating Lexus limousine like experience.

Ok... so it is second only to CT to get this terrible fake leather upholstery? Didn't they say it will stretch imagination and expectations in it's class? How exactly, by replacing standard real leather (and usually very nice leather in Lexus) with material made from recycled bin bags? Trying to defend this is simply blind and futile attempt... ES is clearly step backwards not only from GS... but now seems as well even from IS... @st4 - I appreciate people might have different preferences, but my point here is that - leather is more expensive and more premium material then Tahara **** or even Alcantara ****...They might actually be sometimes nicer or even preferred by some, but it doesn't hide the fact they are cheaper. If that is reflected in the price of the car ... then I guess fine so be it, who want it they will buy, who don't will get leather, but that is not the case - IS is better equipped and has leather as standard and yet it is still cheaper! That doesn't make sense...

ohhh.. I have no idea.. thanks for clarifying... It seems like I haven't driven Prius or IS300h... Furthermore, do not even start comparing it with Leaf because that is apples and oranges... Leaf is fully electric car with much stronger battery an motors and it is completely different from hybrids. Yes true - Prius have more low end torque then one would expect from 1.8L NA petrol... 300h has more instant torque from stand still then IS250.. true as well. But neither is nowhere near hot hatches, certainly not 911's. That small electric motor literally gives advantage is first 1 meter .... you can get half of the car in front of the other car.. that is all. not 30 feet and not up-to 20-30 miles.. now way! Now again true - not every hot hatch, 911 or super car launches from the lights every time... so it is entirely possible that you launch from the lights quicker with Prius or whatever... but that is not because Prius has superior torque which gives it advantage for 30 feet. Lets be true and honest here - it is because other driver didn't bother to race you...

I was genuinely asking as it doesn't make sense that new car will effectively have lower spec. then older models. @ColinBarber - it is not negative narrative. It is negative fact - LSS+ (or Lexus Safety System Plus) is precisely in the place to have all these safety features across the range by default - that is not according to me, it is according to Lexus! You should not need to get Premium pack to get RTCA or BSM... especially when it is standard on IS, which is effectively lower class then ES. Again is nothing about my "negative narrative" - it is factually correct! @Martin J and @LexusIS300h - I am really happy to see people living in the dreams, honestly don't want to shatter them - what a beautiful world "Prius takes on 'hot hatches' and 911's and wins from the lights"... adorable. Another day I have seen Bugatti parked, stopped by it, then accelerated with my IS250 and left that Bugatti "in dust"... I can attest that IS250 is faster then parked Bugatti with engine switched-off!

dang... will not fit on IS220d then... 😞

Wow ...