First_Lexus

Thanks David. To be fair the service was good - everybody was polite and friendly, nice tea and coffee etc. It was the style that jarred, really like something from a bygone era (and not in a good way!). The best way I can describe it is that all the other dealers went out of their way to talk about owning an EV, and whether it was a sensible option. They were low key, and their own marque seemed to come second. Porsche was a hard sell. He was the only one who seemed fascinated by how the car would be financed and the deals that could be done, the option lists and what was ‘needed’ to spec up ‘your Porsche.’ I guess it works for him otherwise he wouldn’t do it, but he mis-read the situation based on who was sitting in front of him imho. I suppose my wider point, further to other posts on this thread, is that if people are going to be convinced by a switch to an EV then it needs to be with understanding and accurate information. Evangelists for the EV who trivialise worries about range and who potentially stretch the truth in order to convince others won’t work - in fact, I think that approach pushes people away and makes them sceptical. On the other side, EV deniers who claim everything about them is wrong or evil or a conspiracy don’t help much either! My buying experience - well, not mine but I was there - was mainly positive. I got the information I needed to understand that an EV wouldn’t suit me right now. My brother-in-law can make the switch now as his travel needs are different. Other than Porsche, I felt reassured that nobody was trying to sell me something that I’d end up being frustrated or dis-satisfied with.

Mass

I have to say, we were impressed with most of the EV specialists we saw - (well, they claimed to be specialists!). Most were keen to understand how the car would be used, in order to establish whether an EV was appropriate or to explain the compromises that might be involved. Where I struggle is when people try to claim there are ‘no compromises’ in owning an EV in ANY circumstances, which I consider to be ridiculous evangelism. I deal with evangelists for different causes on a daily basis as part of my job, and often it’s as if they’re trying to convince themselves as much as others. I’ve been trained to spot it and deconstruct it. I digress… Only one of the EV specialists was what I’d consider to be a ‘traditional’ car salesman on the ‘Arfur Daley’ scale. That was Porsche, and tbh we were embarrassed for him. He was so keen to talk about the ‘brand’ and how it showed ‘success’ that he was almost a parody. Clearly nobody had trained him about different types of customer. Dealing with two very traditional types, one in his fifties and one in his sixties, he got it utterly wrong. We left as fast as we could, laughing about how ‘David Brent’ the whole experience was! Volvo were a cliche. The salesman was very young, wearing braces to hold up his (too short) trousers, with a hipster beard and no socks with his slip on shoes. He insisted on saying ‘Fol-Vo’ too. Nice guy no doubt, but for people like us slightly comical. Tesla were a shambles.They didn’t really do anything wrong, but we got the impression they were like a cult. The other customers didn’t help if I’m honest… All the others were exceptional, and seemed like they were reading from similar scripts. I saw Hyundai separately, and was most impressed with them. As it stands, I’m still spending less on petrol in my RX than I was in an NX before the pandemic due to the shift to working at home. That will suit me for a few years before I move to an EV when my use allows. I even already have a home charger fitted...

I can’t remember which salesman told us - words to the effect - that all cars have compromises, and the question purchasers of an EV have to answer is whether the compromises around owning an EV, namely range and charging time when away from home, are better than petrol/diesel fuel and maintenance costs. He or she told my relative that on longer trips he’d need to get used to driving more slowly, possibly not using heated seats etc. in order to conserve range in certain circumstances. Personally speaking, I’m not married any more so only have one (main) vehicle. I think a lot of people - not everybody by any stretch - have two cars in the family and for them one EV and one fossil fuel works well.

I got stopped by the Police on the M1 near Leicester - must have been before 2015 as I was doing a job then that required regular travel up North. Officer was great - I was only going about 75mph, but it was very early and I didn’t slow down when I passed him so he decided to pull me over on a slip road. We had a nice chat, he asked what I did for a living, why I was driving so early, and he reminded me to stay focussed and to make sure I wasn't too tired. All very good. No fine issued, he wished me well and away I went. What sticks in my mind is that he was curious to know what the registration number was all about as it clearly wasn’t my initials! Which made me think of this… https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/gchq-codebreakers-working-on-personalised-numberplates-2013100880154

We bought one for my Father’s birthday a few years ago, on the basis that he never really wanted anything and had everything he wanted. I never thought he was that impressed as he tended to see anything that wasn’t essential as unnecessary, which I think was common from a farming background bought up in the 1930s! It was just a low number and his initials from DVLA for £250. He gave up driving in 2012 due to Ill health, and died in 2015. I still have it on my cars now…

Stamp on the throttle and you’re quite correct. Drive progressively it works well imho, but accept - as has been said before on the forum - that those who like to drive more ‘aggressively’ probably won’t like the eCVT gearbox. I drive in what I’ll call a ‘relaxed’ manner and prefer eCVT to a traditional torque converter type as it suits me better. On the subject of noise, I have been in a couple of EVs. The iPace, for all its limitations, was very VERY quiet. However, the ICONIC5 that I test drove wasn’t. Road and wind noise levels were quite poor. To be fair, the salesman noted that without engine noise, you are initially more aware of road and wind noise, which makes sense to me. He said you adjust expectations within a few days. I did like the ICONIC5 but as I said previously, after a long discussion with the salesman he suggested the Winter range at motorway speeds meant it wouldn’t suit me UNLESS I was willing to stop somewhere for a 20 minute top up charge as I compete a weekly 200 mile round trip. Here’s the thing. When I retire in a few years I will buy an EV. I’m quite looking forward to it. As noted on a different thread, I recently spent a full day looking at and driving EVs with a close relative, who has ordered the Lexus RZ. BUT for what I do now, I consider a 20 minute top up charge as an additional part of a 90 minute journey to be more inconvenient than I’m prepared to tolerate. In the Summer all the salesman agree it would be fine, but they also all agreed that in the Winter below 10C and at 70mph cars with an advertised range of 280-300 miles wouldn’t manage the 200 mile round trip without a top up. As they should have wanted to sell me a car, I’d trust their view as they don’t want a dis-satisfied customer. That’s quite comforting. I found them to be realistic and pragmatic rather than evangelical.

At least we haven’t seen the awful ‘Daily Mailesque’ word ‘Sheeple’ yet… Oops! 🤪

^^ I now want to pretend that my choice of a 3.5 powered petrol / hybrid RX which is far larger than I need was because of a desire to save the planet…😆 Totally agree though. I’d reckon that in 80-90% of cases the choice of an EV is based on running costs - assuming range fits lifestyle - amongst people who are used to paying HP or PCP for their vehicles. Air quality and ‘doing their bit’ for the environment is simply a useful justification for the expenditure on a new car. We’ve all done similar, or most of us will have done!

Not sure where you are in the UK, but here in West Berkshire it was 95F yesterday and 97F today (high 30s Centigrade) and tbh I can’t remember such a severe heat as we’ve had for the past two days. Fortunately it’s forecast to drop sharply overnight.

The only film on that subject worth watching is the 1970s (?) version with Trevor Howard and Vanessa Redgrave! Thinking about it, my limited knowledge of that campaign - from memory - is that Lord Lucan got the blame. That’s what the film suggests anyway. The scene where Peter Bowles’ wife (Redgrave) sleeps with Lord Cardigan (Howard) is hilarious, and worth a watch if you haven’t seen it or have forgotten it. Different times…😄

^^ Try telling that to Lord Cardigan! Mind you, in a thread increasingly about EV range, ‘charge’ may have been an appropriate slip of the keyboard…😆

I don’t want an EV…😁

Agree. The Accord Tourer is great, but best get the I-DTEC rather than the previous CTD-I. I ran a 2.2 I-DTEC for 40k miles and it was a pleasure. Regular runs needed to look after the DPF as with all modern diesels and good maintenance is key - the right oil etc. Fantastic cars.

Slightly off-topic I accept…but with the temperatures forecast for large parts of Britain over the next few days, You Tube took the opportunity to recommend an old David Mitchell piece about climate change. His explanation is spot on 😆. I took my chance to clean the RX this morning while my driveway was in the shade and it was ‘only’ about 80 degrees. This time tomorrow they expect it be 94 degrees here. Yikes! Anyway, hopefully you’ll all get some enjoyment from this…

I read that oil is now below $100 per barrel, and is in fact cheaper today than it was when Russia invaded Ukraine…

My RX does this, i.e. keeps you in the lane rather than just vibrating as my NX did. I like it, but only on a long motorway trip. It can be caught out in roadworks if they haven’t blanked out the previous road markings so you do need to keep concentrating! I find mine keeps the car more or less in the centre of the lane, probably marginally towards the left hand side.

@ganzoom From my perspective this isn’t about ‘EV doubters.’ Those who have followed this thread are well aware that you drive a very expensive Tesla with a longer range than those that are more affordable. To steal from Blackadder, but continuing to post your trips is like a broken pencil. Pointless. By the way I would expect an evangelist for any cause to use all the tools at their disposal to convince non-believers as you are doing. The challenges here are the same for me as have been stated previously: - can a more affordable EV complete longer trips without compromise and inconvenience? A Nissan Leaf, or even a Hyundai IONIC5? Would you be as confident using one of those for your European trips? - Winter range reduction, again for more affordable EVs rather than for those costing £100k. I’d also note that, as with many things, one man’s inconvenience is another man’s chance for a twenty minute stroll. Everybody is different. You do rather remind me of a politician being asked what the current price of a pint of milk is. Most of them haven’t got a clue of the situation in the ‘real’ world. That’s only my view and my opinion, as everything is on a forum. People can choose to agree, or disagree or ignore (delete as appropriate).

Totally agree - I consider it to be far more than ‘adequate’ 😁 ^^ Also agree with this. It is a comfortable cruiser, but isn’t one to throw into corners. That’s not what it’s designed for though, and having owned several different SUVs they’re all similar in that regard.

Resurrecting an old thread, but because of some real life experience of Green Flag this afternoon - and it wasn’t good! I met my Sister this afternoon, with both of us driving to a meeting point. When we came to leave we noticed her car had a totally flat rear tyre - something had cut it and it was beyond redemption. She gets Green Flag (2016 CR-V) through her bank account. Well… First off, the Green Flag telephone lines were down, due to a ‘technical fault.’ The only way to contact them was through their app…but with little signal where we were, that was problematic. With patience, it did manage to load and we did manage to book a call out…but, you then needed to call in order to confirm! Absolutely ludicrous, and obviously not possible with their telephone lines ‘unavailable’ (more of that in a minute). With more patience we managed to contact them via e-mail. They did respond promptly…asking for us to call them! They were not aware their own telephone lines were unavailable. Oh dear. Eventually, via e-mail they confirmed a wait time of 2-4 hours due to ‘exceptional demand.’ So, we gave up and a friend came with a space saver sourced from the local Honda dealer (well done them) and sorted it that way. You only find out how good these guys are when you need them. Based on this afternoon I could not recommend Green Flag, that’s for sure!

I’m sure it has. Congratulations. I’ve spoken with friends and family who I know and trust who have a different experience. I’ve spoken with dealers who have warned me as I’ve said previously. I’ve not spoken about the Tesla you own, as I have no experience. I’ve spoken about £50k cars from KIA, Hyundai and VW as well as the iPace. Perhaps I’m unusual, but I’ll trust the opinions and experience from people I know and trust over people on a forum that I don’t know and…

Hyundai, KIA and VW have all told me that Summer would be easy but that below 5C in Winter I’d struggle even below 70mph. I’ve got no real idea of the accuracy of that, but if the sales staff answer the specific question I’d trust them. It was Hyundai who told me they are very honest as they don’t want dissatisfied customers after buying an EV. As I’ve said before, a friend bought an iPace and got rid again quickly as in Winter range dropped by over 100 miles at motorway speeds. The Vauxhall website recommends travel below 70mph and trying to do things like driving behind lorries to reduce wind resistance! I guess explains why I tend to see some EVs on lane one going very slowly… As I said, too much of a compromise for me currently.

Keep most cars for long enough, and in good enough condition, and I’d guess they’ll be an ‘investment’ (ignoring inflation in most cases). I was away last night, and popped into a Waitrose store on my way home. In the car park was a beautiful 1920s/30s Austin Seven. As an aside I’d love a pre-war car, but back on topic - I wonder how that would have stacked up as an investment had the original owner kept it and passed it on? Probably worth no more than £15-20k now. You can also never tell with cars. Modern classic dealers sell plenty of lovely stuff for relatively low prices. Fancy an XJ6 Jaguar? £15k gets you a great one. Similarly a Rover P6. But a mint early 2000s Ford RS is now selling for over £100k. Yes, you read that right! It will be interesting to see what happens to prices post 2030 once new fossil fuelled cars aren’t available for sale new. For now @Malc I’d keep what you have and continue to enjoy it. The Lexus LS400 and things like the Honda Legend are fantastic vehicles that most people will never have the privilege to own. I’m jealous!

Trying to think about this petrol vs electric debate as rationally as my small brain will allow, the following points occur to me… - regardless of whether your car is fuelled by petrol or electricity, if you are going into a very rural context you need to check that there is access to enough ‘fuel’ to get there and back. With the charging networks as they are, that is currently more problematic with electric than it is with petrol (or diesel), but that situation is changing and will continue to improve; - range anxiety is real, for me at least. If I was looking at an EV costing £40-50k, with ranges of 300 miles maximum, Winter use at motorŵay speeds is severely compromised in terms of range. Dealers themselves have warned me of this, mainly because they want people to buy with their eyes wide open. The Tesla Model X does have an impressive range, but an equally impressive price which is outside the reach of the majority of people; - fuel cost is a big positive for EVs, obviously. Home charging is very cheap - as things stand before Government legislates to close the revenue gap caused by greater numbers of EVs and fewer fossil fuelled cars - but I’ve seen in the media just this week that a greater number of public chargers cost MORE to charge your EV per mile than petrol does, even with current prices. That has come as a surprise to me. On a personal level, an EV is simply too much of a compromise right now, although my next car will (almost) certainly be electric in 4-5 years. I need to complete a 200 mile round trip, at motorway speeds, once each week. There is no ability to charge at the other end, so in the Winter I’d need to charge on the motorway or find somewhere else at some point during the trip. Currently I fill my RX up once a fortnight and get 450 miles of range without having to think about it. Until I can get at least 300 miles of range, reliably, in the Winter and at motorway speeds an EV will remain too compromised for me, based on how I feel and my priorities.