Engine won't start

[Mike Carter]

Vehicle: Lexus RC 300h

Registration: LA51 DOG

Date of Purchase:16/11/22

Start Milage: 47,500

Failure Milage: 54,000

First Fault: 31/12/23

 

Description:

Went to start the car and got flashing front and rear lights. and messages coming up.

Called the AA and they jumped started the car.

My wife went to work on the 2/1/24 and the car was fine.

On her way home a message came up Check Hybrid System pull over to a safe place.

Called the AA and they charged the Battery in the boot as it was very low. Started the car but the engine kept cutting out. So we had it transported to Steven Eagell (Toyota/Lexus) for repair.

 

The car has been there ever since as they don’t know what is wrong. Their customer service has been abysmal, hardly any contact. We have been down there 4 times for an update. Spoke with the technical engineer and he said they are scratching their heads.

The manager spoke to me on Friday after I requested and update at least once a week. He said I’ve kept my promise and still haven’t got an answer except to put a new engine in the car at a cost of £28,000 and if that doesn’t work a new transmission at a cost of £5,000.

[wharfhouse]

20 minutes ago, Mike Carter said:

Vehicle: Lexus RC 300h

Registration: LA51 DOG

Date of Purchase:16/11/22

Start Milage: 47,500

Failure Milage: 54,000

First Fault: 31/12/23

 

Description:

Went to start the car and got flashing front and rear lights. and messages coming up.

Called the AA and they jumped started the car.

My wife went to work on the 2/1/24 and the car was fine.

On her way home a message came up Check Hybrid System pull over to a safe place.

Called the AA and they charged the battery in the boot as it was very low. Started the car but the engine kept cutting out. So we had it transported to Steven Eagell (Toyota/Lexus) for repair.

 

The car has been there ever since as they don’t know what is wrong. Their customer service has been abysmal, hardly any contact. We have been down there 4 times for an update. Spoke with the technical engineer and he said they are scratching their heads.

The manager spoke to me on Friday after I requested and update at least once a week. He said I’ve kept my promise and still haven’t got an answer except to put a new engine in the car at a cost of £28,000 and if that doesn’t work a new transmission at a cost of £5,000.

Given the jump start and low 12V Battery when the Check Hybrid System came on I would start with replacing the 12V Battery - once the 12V batteries start to not hold charge properly then it creates all sorts of weird problems with the car. When you say the car kept cutting out do you mean that it actually died totally as of course the internal combustion engine does cut in and out as needed depending on the state of the hybrid Battery, cabin temperature etc.

How long have you had the car? Do you know it's history such as where and when it last serviced (if at Lexus and within the last 12 months or 10K miles, whichever is soonest, it would have the Relax Extended Warranty automatically in place which would cover major faults (not the 12V Battery though). It's hard to fathom why Steven Eagell are unable to diagnose and come up with a full explanation though. If you aren't getting anywhere then Lexus Customer Relations at HQ can be reached on cr@lexus.co.uk but I would have though a meeting with the dealer principal face-to-face would be the next logical step.

[steve2006]

Hi Mike and welcome to the LOC.

Phil’s logic with the auxiliary Battery is spot on, there have been multiple reported cases with Lexus vehicles having weird electrical problems when the Battery is failing and “the dash lit up like a Christmas tree” comment.

I don’t understand what is going off with the dealer diagnosis, “engine” or “transmission” is extremely vague. 
Do you know what checks they have performed e.g. basic Battery tests, hybrid Battery levels and a full diagnostic code read.

Admittedly diagnosis of some faults is difficult but with the correct equipment, multimeter, oscilloscope, Techstream, experience and a sharp pair of eyes certainly possible and fully expected from a dealer.

I would by now be looking for immediate answers and escalation.

[wharfhouse]

28 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

Given the jump start and low 12V battery when the Check Hybrid System came on I would start with replacing the 12V battery - once the 12V batteries start to not hold charge properly then it creates all sorts of weird problems with the car. When you say the car kept cutting out do you mean that it actually died totally as of course the internal combustion engine does cut in and out as needed depending on the state of the hybrid battery, cabin temperature etc.

How long have you had the car? Do you know it's history such as where and when it last serviced (if at Lexus and within the last 12 months or 10K miles, whichever is soonest, it would have the Relax Extended Warranty automatically in place which would cover major faults (not the 12V battery though). It's hard to fathom why Steven Eagell are unable to diagnose and come up with a full explanation though. If you aren't getting anywhere then Lexus Customer Relations at HQ can be reached on cr@lexus.co.uk but I would have though a meeting with the dealer principal face-to-face would be the next logical step.

Apologies missed your date of purchase on the above - given that was Nov 22 then the car should have had a service in that time (as the schedule is 12 months or 10k miles whichever come soonest). If that was done at a Lexus dealer then you can point Steven Eagell to that as it will be covered by the Relax extended warranty. 

[Jgtcracer]

11 hours ago, Mike Carter said:

 

Vehicle: Lexus RC 300h

Registration: LA51 DOG

Date of Purchase:16/11/22

Start Milage: 47,500

Failure Milage: 54,000

First Fault: 31/12/23

 

 

Not much help with the breakdown but love the number plate!!

I too would check the simple stuff first and from experience check the 12v battery……..

 Good luck

[DavidCM]

If you are still on the original 12v Battery,I would think that is likely to be the cause of your problems.

[ColinBarber]

14 hours ago, Jgtcracer said:

I too would check the simple stuff first and from experience check the 12v battery

You never know but this is normally only an issue at start up - not once the vehicle is running and charging up the Battery.

I'd like to think that an official Lexus dealer would have performance that basic check. Potentially more likely a problem with the hybrid dc/dc converters which aren't supplying 14.4v to run the vehicle/charge the aux Battery correctly or some other issue where the hybrid errors are a symptom and not the cause.

[Linas.P]

OP probably can clarify when the car was serviced and where - one of the big reasons to use Lexus service is to get Relax warranty on vehicles that qualify. It would be madness not to service premium car of such age at the dealership, but I guess everyone to their own. Lexus cars are reliable, but not invincible either and RC is not cheap car to fix outside of warranty, after all it was £40,000+ new, so parts won't be cheap (I know myself considering my £4,200 bill for seat, which in my case was fixed by warranty). 

All that said... something doesn't add-up. There is no reason why Lexus technicians would be scratching their head or why would they advise to replace the engine. Engine failure is really binary thing - it either has failed or it has not failed, I cannot believe 2AR-FSE which is used in all 300h models of the time would fail at just 54,000 miles, even if car was not serviced for 2 years these engine can take such abuse and run for a while (it does not help wear and tear, but they will run). So unless rod exited the block in quite open fashion, then I don't understand why engine would even be a question or speculated. Somebody just talks complete BS here, maybe priming customer for huge bill.... "ohhh it is £5,000 for inverter, at least it is not £28,000 for engine". No sorry, engine does not fit in this equation at all.

Can hybrid system fail - yes it could and it could cause the symtoms noted. Initial symptoms sounded like 12V Battery, and for that it would be just about time to pack-up. What is strange is that car died when running, which is not usual for 12V Battery related faults, so it may be further issues with electrical side of hybrid system. The hybrid system check results would help here... when was that done?

Was car rarely driven by any chance? That would explain a lot and also it probably would be resolved with new 12V Battery and good trip for 500 miles. But then I am still puzzled why Lexus technicians are scratching their heads? This should not be difficult issue to diagnose?! Could it be jump start related? AA is generally good, but car service quality is in decline across the board, so I would not be surprised if AA guy shorted and fried something (which could indeed be headscratcher for whomever tires to unpick that).

In short I am kind of puzzled myself - described speculation from Lexus does not fit description of the issue, also description of the issue does not sound like something experienced technicians would struggle to troubleshoot, also also considering age an mileage of the car I am struggling to understand why this isn't warranty job (yes it isn't under factory 60k/3 years cover anymore, but I would expect it to be under relax, am I right to think hybrid side has longer warranty 10 years/100k as long as hybrid health check is done?). Seems to me like some parts of the story are missing or omitted. 

[Jgtcracer]

9 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

You never know but this is normally only an issue at start up - not once the vehicle is running and charging up the battery.

I'd like to think that an official Lexus dealer would have performance that basic check. Potentially more likely a problem with the hybrid dc/dc converters which aren't supplying 14.4v to run the vehicle/charge the aux battery correctly or some other issue where the hybrid errors are a symptom and not the cause.

Right, I forget that hybrids have components I’m not familiar with.  Certainly with a traditional ICE car, I’d maybe be a bit closer but my experience of hybrids is somewhat lacking……

Consider myself reeducated!

[Izabela]

I thought I was the only one having problems with the Battery.

I purchased my Lexus in Oct 2021 and in January 2022, when it was cold outside, already started having problems when starting the engine. I purchased a new Battery (the year of the car is Nov. 2018) In January 2023 again, then even in October 2023 when there was no issue with cold weather. When going to Asda, I had to jump start the engine, from Asda again use the jump start as it didn't start, going to Matalan again using jump start. This January I took it to Lexus dealer (it's still in warranty) they said they needed to keep it for the night, to charge it, I have no idea...They said they didn't find any issue with the Battery.

Two days after I collected it started again. Don't know what else to do...

 

[ColinBarber]

32 minutes ago, Izabela said:

Don't know what else to do...

How often do you drive your car, and how far? Potentially you may not be driving it enough for the car to recharge the Battery.

You don't keep your key fob very near your car do you? If it is within communication distance it can consume more power (ideally you should keep your key far away and in a Faraday pouch to stop the risk of a relay theft attack).

[Izabela]

Just now, ColinBarber said:

How often do you drive your car, and how far? Potentially you may not be driving it enough for the car to recharge the battery.

You don't keep your key fob very near your car do you? If it is within communication distance it can consume more power (ideally you should keep your key far away and in a Faraday pouch to stop the risk of a relay theft attack).

I drive it 5 days to work, 6 miles each way + shopping/visiting over the weekend

The key, yes, I keep it in a pouch far from the car...

[ColinBarber]

4 minutes ago, Izabela said:

I drive it 5 days to work, 6 miles each way + shopping/visiting over the weekend

The key, yes, I keep it in a pouch far from the car...

All Lexus hybrid's suffer from poor 12v Battery life which is a problem if you rarely use the vehicle but you are using it enough.

Assuming you don't have something added to the vehicle that is consuming power (e.g. dash cam, tracker) and if it is still under warranty all you can do is take it back again - maybe record a video when you have issues to prove there is an issue.

[H3XME]

Any updates, @Mike Carter?

[Linas.P]

19 hours ago, Izabela said:

I drive it 5 days to work, 6 miles each way + shopping/visiting over the weekend

The key, yes, I keep it in a pouch far from the car...

Yes that is wrong - decent Battery should last 3-4 weeks at least. You driving frequently enough.

Obviously, once the Battery fails it has to be replaced, but you said it was replaced already, so something isn't right.

Also if like you say, you need to jump start the car every time you stop, then I just can't see how Lexus can say "everything is fine with the car/battery".

[Izabela]

I finally got my Battery changed... again

One day I just stopped by to see somebody and then the car wouldn't start. It didn't accept the jump starter either... I couldn't even lock it...I was so angry...I just left it open and left.

My sister in law came after 5 hours and I started the engine with the cables. Next day I took it to Lexus ...they tested it again, kept it over the night and the following morning they saw the Battery was drained, so they replaced it. Now everything is back to normal 😉 

What is strange, when I replaced it in 2022 I paid only £150, now it was under warranty, but it was estimated on my bill at £300 🤔

Thank you guys for your advice! 🤗

[ColinBarber]

19 minutes ago, Izabela said:

now it was under warranty, but it was estimated on my bill at £300

Probably a large labour charge to diagnose the issue and charge to fit the new one given the manufacturer is paying.