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Just looking at the ravings about 400h savings (or not), and realised that no post or comments have been made about the life expectancy of the fuel cells.

Every cell must have some life expectancy and what cost is that to replace.

Can anybody enlighten me !

Shoggy

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Just looking at the ravings about 400h savings (or not), and realised that no post or comments have been made about the life expectancy of the fuel cells.

Every cell must have some life expectancy and what cost is that to replace.

Can anybody enlighten me !

Shoggy

The Prius has something like an 8 year warranty on the hybrid stuff, including the batteries. Don't know about Lexus, just had a dig around on their website and there's nothing.

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on Lexus.it, in the hybrid FAQ section, I read that the batteries are expected to last for the lifetime of the whole car, and you're not supposed to change or recharge them.

Bearing in mind that we have LS400s on here that are over fifteen years old, that's not bad! Mind you, what do they mean by "expected"?

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Main Entry: ex·pect

Pronunciation: ik-'spekt

Function: verb

Etymology: Latin exspectare to look forward to, from ex- + spectare to look at, from spectus, past participle of specere to look -- more at SPY

intransitive senses

1 archaic : WAIT, STAY

2 : to look forward

3 : to be pregnant : await the birth of one's child -- used in progressive tenses <she's expecting next month>

transitive senses

1 archaic : AWAIT

2 : to anticipate or look forward to the coming or occurrence of <we expect them any minute now> <expected a telephone call>

3 : SUPPOSE, THINK

4 a : to consider probable or certain <expect to be forgiven> <expect that things will improve> b : to consider reasonable, due, or necessary <expected hard work from the students> c : to consider bound in duty or obligated <they expect you to pay your bills>

- ex·pect·able /-'spek-t&-b&l/ adjective

- ex·pect·ably /-blE/ adverb

- ex·pect·ed·ly adverb

- ex·pect·ed·ness noun

synonyms EXPECT, HOPE, LOOK mean to await some occurrence or outcome. EXPECT implies a high degree of certainty and usually involves the idea of preparing or envisioning <expects to be finished by Tuesday>. HOPE implies little certainty but suggests confidence or assurance in the possibility that what one desires or longs for will happen <hopes to find a job soon>. LOOK, with to, implies assurance that expectations will be fulfilled <looks to a tidy profit from the sale>; with for it implies less assurance and suggests an attitude of expectancy and watchfulness <look for rain when the wind shifts to the northeast>.

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Main Entry: ex·pect

Pronunciation: ik-'spekt

Function: verb

Etymology: Latin exspectare to look forward to, from ex- + spectare to look at, from spectus, past participle of specere to look -- more at SPY

intransitive senses

1 archaic : WAIT, STAY

2 : to look forward

3 : to be pregnant : await the birth of one's child -- used in progressive tenses <she's expecting next month>

transitive senses

1 archaic : AWAIT

2 : to anticipate or look forward to the coming or occurrence of <we expect them any minute now> <expected a telephone call>

3 : SUPPOSE, THINK

4 a : to consider probable or certain <expect to be forgiven> <expect that things will improve> b : to consider reasonable, due, or necessary <expected hard work from the students> c : to consider bound in duty or obligated <they expect you to pay your bills>

- ex·pect·able /-'spek-t&-b&l/ adjective

- ex·pect·ably /-blE/ adverb

- ex·pect·ed·ly adverb

- ex·pect·ed·ness noun

synonyms EXPECT, HOPE, LOOK mean to await some occurrence or outcome. EXPECT implies a high degree of certainty and usually involves the idea of preparing or envisioning <expects to be finished by Tuesday>. HOPE implies little certainty but suggests confidence or assurance in the possibility that what one desires or longs for will happen <hopes to find a job soon>. LOOK, with to, implies assurance that expectations will be fulfilled <looks to a tidy profit from the sale>; with for it implies less assurance and suggests an attitude of expectancy and watchfulness <look for rain when the wind shifts to the northeast>.

I take back my comment in another 'post' about my number plate reading 'Pedant'!! :D :P :crybaby:

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Shoggy's query [life expectancy of the fuel cells] deserves a more serious consideration and response.

The cost of replacing the cells will be a material fact for many private buyers when deciding whether to go for a hybrid such as the 400h. Some of us adopt a policy of buying new; keeping for c.10 years or c.100k miles or major repair costs; and replacing. Thus, if the fuel cells are likely to expire after 8 years or so (or whenever), the cost of their replacement - or the corresponding drop in the trade-in value of the vehicle as it approaches that time - is a major determinant in the decision to buy.

So I think Shoggy's pertinent question deserves an authoritative answer. How long will they last, and how much (at today's prices) will replacements cost, installed?

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Well, maybe no one actually knows the answer ........... hence why they have not posted?

Maybe Chris Shipley can look it up? 9.6V NiMH Battery for RX400h, it takes 30 of them for a total output of 288 volts. Not something you'd want to drop a spanner across!

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I've found the very same FAQ's in Lexus.co.uk (quoting):

"- How long will a Lexus hybrid last?

The Hybrid Synergy Drive system is designed to be as durable as any other Lexus, which considering Lexus' reputation is a pretty long time.

- what's the lifetime of the hybrid Battery?

The high voltage Battery used for the Hybrid Synergy Drive cannot be compared with conventional car batteries. It uses state of the art Battery technology and is designed to last for the lifetime of the vehicle. In the unlikely event that your Battery needs changing, your Lexus dealer will take care of that."

That's all they have to say about the subject at Lexus.

To me, it means:

1) That there's no way of telling exactly how many years/miles the batteries will go, because that will depend upon too many different variables

2) That, regardless of point 1), they are quite confident that replacing batteries is not going to be an issue any time soon, not even for the first wave of second owners, among whom I'm eager to be.

I don't think the lifetime of the batteries should be a major concern if you're considering to buy this car: much better question is, given my usual mileage, traffic condition and average speed, can I make even with the higher price of this model in X years?

I'm afraid the answer will be NO, for the 99% of us.

I do love the car, but I believe the only rational reason to buy it might be to skip traffic blockades or congestion charges (like the one you have in London) on environmental basis.

Apart from that, it's just a wonderful, wonderful toy.

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the only rational reason to buy it might be to skip traffic blockades or congestion charges (like the one you have in London) on environmental basis.

Car full of toys? Who's being rational? :D

Will be a while before I part with my GS, but RX400h is a strong contender for Toyota/Lexus number 7.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think someone reported first known hybrid Battery (its not fuel cell) failure in 1st gen Prius at 460,000km. They were able to buy used Battery from junkyard and get it replaced for 250E. Apperantly a lot more of them get totalled than need new batteries, so plenty of those around. Kind of glad Toyota puts them at back :-).

Savings from brake pads alone should cover the cost of replacing Battery at some 300,000 miles :-).

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I seem to remember being told at the dealer that the Lexus said the batts were designed to last the life of the car, but were covered during the warrenty period against failure! (I should think so to).

I also seem to recall being told a life expextancy of around 8 years, but I can't remember where I heard that from

RxMike

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I seem to remember being told at the dealer that the Lexus said the batts were designed to last the life of the car, but were covered during the warrenty period against failure! (I should think so to).

I also seem to recall being told a life expextancy of around 8 years, but I can't remember where I heard that from

RxMike

I think the hybrid system,including the Battery is covered by an additional warranty compared to the rest of the car.

The car has a standard 3 yr/60,000 m warranty,but the hybrid system is covered for 5 yrs/100,000 m..

I looked at the USA Lexus site some time back,and IIRC they have an 8 year warranty on the hybrid system(and their standard warranty on the rest of the car runs for longer :angry: )

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Thanks to this thread, we seem to have established this:

1. Lexus say " The high voltage Battery used for the Hybrid Synergy Drive cannot be compared with conventional car batteries. It uses state of the art Battery technology and is designed to last for the lifetime of the vehicle. In the unlikely event that your Battery needs changing, your Lexus dealer will take care of that.";

2. But it's only guaranteed for 5 years;

3. The current vat-inclusive price of that 'battery' is £4,037 [but it isn't clear whether that includes the fitting costs or whether associated parts will / should be replaced (as is the case when changing a cambelt) - can Gecco:8 elaborate, perhaps?].

It is, of course, too soon to know what will happen in practice, but not doubt this LOC will keep an eye on reports. If the systems to start failing after just over 5 years then there would inevitably be some impact on residual values.

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the car is only "guaranteed" for 3 years,but i would expect it to last for longer.

Likewise if the hybrid system is under warranty for 5 years,I would expect it to last longer.

If they are offering 8 years' warranty in USA,then I feel fairly confident of the system's durability.

Also,it is worth considering that the hybrid system that has been used in the Prius for a number of years has not given rise to any longevity issues AFAIK.

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Thanks to this thread, we seem to have established this:

1. Lexus say " The high voltage battery used for the Hybrid Synergy Drive cannot be compared with conventional car batteries. It uses state of the art battery technology and is designed to last for the lifetime of the vehicle. In the unlikely event that your battery needs changing, your Lexus dealer will take care of that.";

2. But it's only guaranteed for 5 years;

3. The current vat-inclusive price of that 'battery' is £4,037 [but it isn't clear whether that includes the fitting costs or whether associated parts will / should be replaced (as is the case when changing a cambelt) - can Gecco:8 elaborate, perhaps?].

It is, of course, too soon to know what will happen in practice, but not doubt this LOC will keep an eye on reports. If the systems to start failing after just over 5 years then there would inevitably be some impact on residual values.

The price quoted is for a complete Battery (which looks to be made up of a alot of different parts!), but does not include any fitting charge.

At the moment i don't think there is any concern over hybrid system at Lexus as it is just an evolved version of what is fitted to the Toyota Prius. These have been out for nearly 6 years now and i am yet to know of one having a hybrid system problem (Battery or otherwise) so that has to be good news!

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  • 3 weeks later...
The Prius has a computer that’s solely dedicated to keeping the Prius battery at the optimum temperature and optimum charge level. Both these functions maintain the long life of the battery. Toyota have lab data showing the Prius battery can do 180,000 miles (290,000km) of normal driving with absolutely no degradation of the battery’s performance. This long life is largely due to the computers control of the Battery pack.
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  • 5 years later...

People, could you please have a think about reduced performance of batteries after a few years of use? How would you identify that the batteries need replacing? The system may not tell you this and the only tell tale may be reduced performance.

I have just had an accident and my car is right now with Lexus for repairs at the body shop. My RX400h is 6 years old. The courtesy car I got was a prius 2011. When the car runs on Battery, I get a lot out of it. Compared to my RX400h, the car can run on Battery for twice as long. Now this may be purely because of the size/weight of the car but at the same time, I believe the Prius is fit with smaller batteries because of the size. So am I right to think that my RX400h now has reduced performance because of the age of the vehicle?

Anyone else experience this?

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