What A Great Car - Not!

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Rsarin - good choice!!

I've driven both the 320d saloon (Auto) and the 320i Ci Sport Manual coupe. I have been so close to changing the Lexus for a 320i MSport Auto - which is why I have been quiet of late (!)....The build quality is not as bad as some might have you believe - and given my experience of the IS220d, it is about the same. It is still not quite at Audi standards from my experience...and the new A4 is very convincing on paper...

A 320i will give you 40-45mpg consistently on a mixed driving style, and I reckon 50+ at regular motorway speeds is absolutely possible.

The 2.0i 170bhp BMW Petrol engine is better value for money than the 2.0d (IMHO) but the 2.0d engine is very economical - and with 177bhp and more torque than the Lexus engine, it is very fast in the mid range and very economical - at least 10-15%+ on the Lexus. It somehow feels "light" compared to the Lexus which feels heavy. Not just the car - but the drive train too....People rave about the BMW gearchange, but I find the throw is a little long...my IS220d on the other hand is meaty and very precise - thogh I have driven a couple of petrol and diesel IS's which have been as notchy as the Journo's have stated...

The only problem is that by the time you add Leather, 6CD, decent HiFi, Bluetooth and Satnav the price of a BMW can become astromically intergallactic...that's where the Lexus just wins...

When you consider though that for just over £26k OTR, you can get a Red 320i Msport Auto, Proff Nav, Voice Command, Bluetooth, 6CD, Tints and Xenon's it is not too bad....the list price is over £30k! Things like Heated seats are only any good if you have leather (as are ventilated seats) and electric seats without memory are plain slow and a waste of time...

Every time I get bored of the Lexus (or hear new squeaks and rattles) I start pondering the future. The more I look at other cars and realise how much money the Lexus has lost, the more I remain convinced that the IS has to stay for another 4 years...the Lexus is seriously good VFM!

[Rsarin]

Rsarin - good choice!!

I've driven both the 320d saloon (Auto) and the 320i Ci Sport Manual coupe. I have been so close to changing the Lexus for a 320i MSport Auto - which is why I have been quiet of late (!)....The build quality is not as bad as some might have you believe - and given my experience of the IS220d, it is about the same. It is still not quite at Audi standards from my experience...and the new A4 is very convincing on paper...

A 320i will give you 40-45mpg consistently on a mixed driving style, and I reckon 50+ at regular motorway speeds is absolutely possible.

The 2.0i 170bhp BMW Petrol engine is better value for money than the 2.0d (IMHO) but the 2.0d engine is very economical - and with 177bhp and more torque than the Lexus engine, it is very fast in the mid range and very economical - at least 10-15%+ on the Lexus. It somehow feels "light" compared to the Lexus which feels heavy. Not just the car - but the drive train too....People rave about the BMW gearchange, but I find the throw is a little long...my IS220d on the other hand is meaty and very precise - thogh I have driven a couple of petrol and diesel IS's which have been as notchy as the Journo's have stated...

The only problem is that by the time you add Leather, 6CD, decent HiFi, Bluetooth and Satnav the price of a BMW can become astromically intergallactic...that's where the Lexus just wins...

When you consider though that for just over £26k OTR, you can get a Red 320i Msport Auto, Proff Nav, Voice Command, Bluetooth, 6CD, Tints and Xenon's it is not too bad....the list price is over £30k! Things like Heated seats are only any good if you have leather (as are ventilated seats) and electric seats without memory are plain slow and a waste of time...

Every time I get bored of the Lexus (or hear new squeaks and rattles) I start pondering the future. The more I look at other cars and realise how much money the Lexus has lost, the more I remain convinced that the IS has to stay for another 4 years...the Lexus is seriously good VFM!

nice read!!We have never really been interested in a diesel car before and when we went to the bmw dealership,we were originally looking for a mini.Somehow my Mrs started looking at the M coupe and said she really liked it,so naturally i kept quiet,knowing that i came there for a completely different type of vehicle,different budget also.Anyways as she was so keane we decided to take their demo car for a spin,and i must say i was absolutely blown away.Havent driven a diesel for absolutely ages but realised straight away that this was actually an amazing drive.I mean so much torque and it did feel meaty when pressing on(gear changes seemed fine too),in petrol cars you dont get that same feeling(it felt stonger lower down than my M3 does).Sorry if youve heard it all before,but i was absolutely shocked.The car worked out at £33k all in,with alot of options ticked and i must say i was more keane to purchase after the test drive.I have been a passenger in the is220d when lexus were dropping me back at work once and that too felt great-but because ive heard so many complaints about it on here-i tried to avoid it,also hoping the bmw will hold its value better than the Lexus(we have lost alot of money on numerous Lexii),especially if we want rid in a year or two.I dont know much about diesels as you have probably gathered-but this car seemed awesome and i cant believe i didnt notice what all the fuss was about sooner.Ill take some pics and vids once its here,although its wierd got a call from the dealer today,asking if we want it delivered before crimbo-which i thought was wierd-but thats another story.cheers for the write up,ill no doubt be following the 220d threads more now that im a diesel car driver.BTW the build quality in my E46 M3 is attrocious and its embarassing having people in the car-squeaks from any,every part of trim,i do hope the new cars are better.

[simon k]

with regards to JAMBO'S earlier comment about the seat problem, i have recently had my drivers seat replaced i took around 3 visits to the dealer forthem to try to fix the squeek and they finally admitted that this isnt the first time this problem has been reported, i have had the new seat around 4 weeks and the same problem has started on the new one, i cant be bothered taking it back

[Steve ( West Mids )]

There is a fix for the squeaky seat, just needs removing and taking some little plastic pins * think that's what they are called ) out. Suprised the dealer doesn't know :(

2004 – 2007 model year Lexus vehicles.

NV001-06 Front Seat Squeak Noise

Some customers may experience a squeak noise due to contact between the seat track

locating pin(s) and the floor pan location hole(s). The following procedure describes the

repair method to correct this condition.

[simon k]

the squeek doesnt come from the mounting points its actually from inside i was told the only fix is a new seat which i had

[FinLex]

The 2.0i 170bhp BMW Petrol engine is better value for money than the 2.0d (IMHO) but the 2.0d engine is very economical - and with 177bhp and more torque than the Lexus engine, it is very fast in the mid range and very economical - at least 10-15%+ on the Lexus.

More torque than which Lexus engine? 220d has 400 Nm and the BMW's 2.0d only 350 Nm. Can't comment on the actual feeling of torque though, since I still haven't managed to make the effort to go for a spin with the Bavarian. I know I should. Not that I'm thinking of swapping, but rather just to keep up with the field.

Current tank AVG: 5,9 litres -> 47,9 MPG. Me happy. Could I get 53-55 MPG with BMW? Frankly, I don't care that much. The price difference (Lexus vs. BMW) is huge with all the extras I want, and with that pile of money I can buy a lot of fuel.

[Northern Boys Luv Gravy]

with regards to JAMBO'S earlier comment about the seat problem, i have recently had my drivers seat replaced i took around 3 visits to the dealer forthem to try to fix the squeek and they finally admitted that this isnt the first time this problem has been reported, i have had the new seat around 4 weeks and the same problem has started on the new one, i cant be bothered taking it back

The reason it's started again is because the squeek is not in the seat. There are a couple of locating pins used during fitting the seat at the time of manufacture and these cause all manner of strange squeeks from the seat. They are not needed and there is a service bulletin to cover the removal of them by the dealerships. It takes about 45 mins and completely cures the problem - I've had 2 squeeking and rattling driver's seats fixed in this manner. Your dealership need to check their factory bulletins more often.

[harv]

still getting under 30mpg ........ can't belive figures in the 40's ,however mines and early car so must be the earlier 22d's with issues , and tbh its wearing me down .

its just really awful.

[Matus]

my 220d is 12/2005

[Steve ( West Mids )]

the squeek doesnt come from the mounting points its actually from inside i was told the only fix is a new seat which i had

That's what I thought but the pins fixed mine.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

The 2.0i 170bhp BMW Petrol engine is better value for money than the 2.0d (IMHO) but the 2.0d engine is very economical - and with 177bhp and more torque than the Lexus engine, it is very fast in the mid range and very economical - at least 10-15%+ on the Lexus.

More torque than which Lexus engine? 220d has 400 Nm and the BMW's 2.0d only 350 Nm. Can't comment on the actual feeling of torque though, since I still haven't managed to make the effort to go for a spin with the Bavarian. I know I should. Not that I'm thinking of swapping, but rather just to keep up with the field.

Current tank AVG: 5,9 litres -> 47,9 MPG. Me happy. Could I get 53-55 MPG with BMW? Frankly, I don't care that much. The price difference (Lexus vs. BMW) is huge with all the extras I want, and with that pile of money I can buy a lot of fuel.

When I say more torque, I should have said more torque over a longer rev band...the Lexus torque delivery is higher but sudden and narrow - the BMW has a slight flatspot too, but then the surge is very good over a longer period of the rev's. That plus the auto box means that the car just keeps wanting to go faster and faster. Pure effortless. That is what the 220d misses.

It's also the reason why the BMW is so much quicker when you start off. Even the 163bhp engine 320d was faster in a straight line - the 177 320d version is much quicker and with the Auto it is, I have to say, near perfect!

Like you sau Finlex, it's just too expensive when you add the options...which is why the Lexus still sits on my drive...for now!

The fuel economy problem is strange. Looks like Matus and Finlex in Europe get better economy than we do in UK. Is it something to do with speed limits, driving conditions, or software?

PS - the squeaky seat on mine was down to the anchors not being fastened tight enough...no plastic lugs could be found anywhere. They were removed in the factory on mine.

[Matus]

When I say more torque, I should have said more torque over a longer rev band...the Lexus torque delivery is higher but sudden and narrow - the BMW has a slight flatspot too, but then the surge is very good over a longer period of the rev's. That plus the auto box means that the car just keeps wanting to go faster and faster. Pure effortless. That is what the 220d misses.

haven't driven the latest 320d 177hp but the 163hp.

beemer started to pull from 1500rpm. Redline was 4800rpm or 5000rpm.

My IS pulls from 1500rpm and redline is 5200rpm - achievable on 2nd what means app 95kph (60mph). Beemer must be on 3rd already in this speed.

What I want to say is that you are right what you are saying, but I would say the story is a bit different.

The truth is that beemer has better box in terms of ratios. It is not as short as is220d sport and not as long as standard IS220d and the ratios between the gears are better calculated - I don't like on IS the huge ratio difference between 2nd and 3rd, while 4th and 5th are too close in my eyes and 6th is too far again.

IS220d sport has this same problem, because there is no difference in gear ratios, just the final ratio is different. This is much better done in beemer.

We have to understand that the torque - the Nm number is very specific number as the torque is being converted through the box. This means: the 400Nm number is the torque on the engine and this is not fair when comparing two cars with two different ratios in gearboxes.

For example, lets say that on IS220d (standard) has the 4th gear the ratio 1:1, what means that the torque at 2000rpm is 400Nm on the wheels. (1:1 - no conversion) - we ignore the powertrain losses.

320d has slightly shorter box, lets say 15% shorter than IS220d, what means that the ratio is 1:1,15. This means that the torque at 2000rpm is not 350Nm but 350x 1,15 = 402Nm.

And this is why you feel that the torque is spread wider/it is stronger on 320d. 320d has simply shorter box. Long gears on IS220d kill the torque.

Plus - 320d has less weight to move.

And what more - don't know about the 177hp version, but the 163hp is almost lag-free even in low revs. To have no lag in IS220d you have to be over 2500rpm.

I said many times - 320d has better engine/box than IS220d but this is where it ends. The rest of package wins in IS220d.

The fuel economy problem is strange. Looks like Matus and Finlex in Europe get better economy than we do in UK. Is it something to do with speed limits, driving conditions, or software?

well in Slovakia the limits are 60kph in the urban, 90kph extra urban and 130kph on higways, however the police tolerates up to +10kph, so we drive 70/100/140kph.

I reckon that it has to do something with the diesel quality. I don't know much owners of IS220d in here (3 :) ) but including me we have never had something like EGR or injector problems while here it looks like almost everyone had.

[Colm]

still getting under 30mpg ........ can't belive figures in the 40's

You need to find out how people are getting their MPG figures.

I discovered that my trip computer produces vastly optomistic figures ;)

My trip computer reports 27mpg, while I'm actually getting 21mpg. Over 30% out ;) (IS250)

If anyone is quoting mpg from the trip computer, I think you can ignore them if my experience is anything to go by.

[Tango]

the squeek doesnt come from the mounting points its actually from inside i was told the only fix is a new seat which i had

That's what I thought but the pins fixed mine.

Here's the TSIB with the Lexus recommended fix....

http://is350.grantham-international.com/ts...eak%20Noise.pdf

[Matus]

still getting under 30mpg ........ can't belive figures in the 40's

You need to find out how people are getting their MPG figures.

I discovered that my trip computer produces vastly optomistic figures ;)

My trip computer reports 27mpg, while I'm actually getting 21mpg. Over 30% out ;) (IS250)

If anyone is quoting mpg from the trip computer, I think you can ignore them if my experience is anything to go by.

I have real figures in my case. If you take a look on www.spritmonitor.de, you can even see the difference between the TC and the reality (btw the difference is minimal)

[VrmmVrmm]

I have every litre and every klm recorded on a spreadsheet and it is accurate. 31,000 klms done now.

[FinLex]

I always calculate the consumption when filling up the tank. My experience is that the computer is very accurate.

[scott]

Hi All,

I've been off work for almost five months with a serious back injury, the IS220d has not been driven and has been standing still until a few days ago. Inevitably the Battery was flat and I was got going by the RAC. I then took it on a round 50 mile run and have to say I was impressed, performance was great and not at all sluggish - in fact I was taken by surprise on a couple of corners, easy to forget how fast you are going Economy wise it is too early to say as I need a much longer run, prior to my injury I was getting low-mid forties on a 220 mile run averaging about 70 mph most of the way, oh, and the car has done 26,500 miles. I honestly expected it be really rough after standing for so long so was quite pleased to find that wasn't the case at all.

[Pagnobito]

I think it may be the case with any car forum that people with problems migrate to it, or at least say more about them than someone that hasn't had any problems with the car at all. There must be many happy owners out there that perhaps do not even think about looking for a forum at all!

Apart from a minor dash rattle on the car when I bought it with 6K on the clock (which was fixed promptly) there has not been any other problems at all. It has just been in for 30K service and has been fine between, and not need any oil added either.

I looked at other marques when I was looking to replace my last car and was unimpressed by the level of kit as standard, and found that getting near to the same on the Lexus added massive amounts to the list price. Admittedely some of the stuff on the SE-L I do not use much, but it still represents superb value for money in my opinion, particularliy with the MM option. When it is time to replace again, I think I will be hard pressed to find something else and will probably go Lexus again, unless my business goes as well as I think it will, and then I will be looking at something completely different. I really fancy a AM V8 Vantage, and the IS-F is a tempting choice too! That will be another V8 to add to the stable (already have a Porsche 928S4).

[Harrydavy]

I have emailed Auto Express following the article on the other thread and asked the editor to look at this message board.

Perhaps some media attention will make Lexus take some more effective action?!?!?!?