Mot Testing ,,,the Changes

[fil4362]

Last night i attended the latest round of VOSA mot seminars (2 hours of shear bordem and they charge for the tickets). Any just though i would share some of the changes that may affect some members.

Theres seems to have been some talk about about hid lights fitted to car that didnt have them origianally. At present there is nothing abotu them coming into test to be a testable item. They are working on it, but there seems to be some confusion as to what a hid is. As with all mot testing,you are not allowed to dismantle anything on the car, so without seeing the bulb who says its a hid. Thats their concern. Also as hids have been deemed to be benificial they dotn want to ban them either, but do they need to have headlight washers and self leveling equipment on them or do they get tested purley on beam aim and pattern as any other headlight bulb would be. So hids, they are not coming into the test although they may do in future.

ABS lights have been in the mot for ages now , as of january next year engine management lights will be included in the test as will airbag light, srs lights, brake fluid level warning lights and main beem warning lights. All will now have to function correctly to get a pass. Non of these have been part of the test before.

Towbars are now included in the test but they wiring harness for them isnt, it doesnt have to function at all you dont even need one at present. From what i was told last night the old style 9 pin sockets wont ever be in the test as there is no standardised pin set up. The new canbus controlled 13 pin towbar sockets will be testable as soon as they find, test, approve and standardise a piece of equipment to test them.

Ball joint dust covers track rod end dust covers will come into test, again as of january the first next year. If they are split they are a fail. MOst of the dust covers i se are split as the joint removal tool used actually splits them. So check your dust covers, if your car is going in for any steerign or suspension work make sure your garage doesnt use the wedge shape for for splitting the joints, if they rip your dust covers from january it will cost you a new joint,unless of course someone starts to sell just the cover.

Inner c.v boots again are now testable from january next year,until now they have only been an advisary item. Battery security also comes into the test at same time, currently your Battery doesnt have to be secure. Engine mounts also will be testable until january your engine can be tied in with string and your car will pass.

Manuel head light adjusters (the switch on your dash to adjust headlight aim) might come into the test an eu directive says it has to be reachable from the drivers seat. Ye silly eu again when have you ever seen one that isnt reachabel from the drivers seat??. It might not come into the test, as your all probably thinking whats the point of that in the test one will never fail on that, which is why they are thinking of not including it in the test.

Catalitic converters will now be in the test, again as of january next year. If you have removed yours it will now be a fail. Until now if your carpassed the emisions test it didnt mater if you had a cat or not.And before anyone quotes the section of the testers manuel that state reason for rejection " part of exhaust system missing" this refers to a part actually missing and not replaced with a straight piece of pipe. A cat bypass was considered replaced not missing piece.

As usual there was talk of test frequency. The idea od cars needing test on a 4 2 2 basis has been rattling around for ages now. Basicly your car,from new, wouldnt need a test for 4 years then only needed one every 2 years after that.

As i stated at the start of the post these are the items discussed at last nights mot seminar they are not my views on mot testing i dont agree with some of the stuff so dotn argue with me if you think dust covers being torn is a bad idea to fail its not my fault. I know of loads of cars with engine management lights on that run perfectly well and have do for ages, why the sudden need to fail them all on mot is beyond me.

[janey]

Great bit of info, thanks for the 'heads up' :D

Guess this means I'll have to get my airbag ecu sorted though

[ormi]

Great bit of info, thanks for the 'heads up' :D

Guess this means I'll have to get my airbag ecu sorted though

^^^^^way round that......connect the a/b warning light wiring to the oil pressure wiring job done light will come on and off as normall...

[steve2006]

Great bit of info, thanks for the 'heads up' :D

Guess this means I'll have to get my airbag ecu sorted though

^^^^^way round that......connect the a/b warning light wiring to the oil pressure wiring job done light will come on and off as normall...

Does that mean if the airbag goes off I get covered in oil? lol

Good write up Ormi

[fil4362]

That would work ormi but is it a job you would do for someone??. I wouldnt ,can you imagine, big crash no airbags go off insurance company ask why , your name comes out VOSA find out your employer gets wind of it,,,, mmmmm i wouldnt risk it. Its all ok until it goes wrong i know i wouldnt want my name involved. Some short cuts to fix problems need to be cut and not used.

I actually though about it myself when a customer asked about her passenger side airbag and her baby in the front seat (ford focus early one cant turn it of) for about 2 minutes i though, ye just pull the glove box out then disconect the airbag. Then thought nah not my problem get a car with no air bag or at least one you can turn off. Not my problem she had a 2 door car with a baby, personally i would have thought she would have got a 4 door car!!.

[dave1]

Not my problem she had a 2 door car with a baby, personally i would have thought she would have got a 4 door car!!.

When my chidren were in "kiddy car seats" strapped into car seats some 30+ years ago they were automatically put into the rear seats of the car. I can't see the point of "front" kiddy seats. The fix Ormi suggested would not alter the operation of the airbag........the srs light not working could just as easily be caused by a blown bulb surely?

[fil4362]

Not my problem she had a 2 door car with a baby, personally i would have thought she would have got a 4 door car!!.

When my chidren were in "kiddy car seats" strapped into car seats some 30+ years ago they were automatically put into the rear seats of the car. I can't see the point of "front" kiddy seats. The fix Ormi suggested would not alter the operation of the airbag........the srs light not working could just as easily be caused by a blown bulb surely?

Hi Dave1 i wondered when you would be along to play devils advocate. Anyway, if theres a fault on the airbag system the light stays on and the system shuts down, therefore the system doesnt work. If the light doesnt operate at all thats also a fail, no warning light,no warning of a failed system. Basicsly turn ignition on, light comes on,start engine, light goes out, anything other than this is a system fail and therefore an mot fail.

The only reason for ormi,s fix would be to make the system "appear" to be functioning correctly. If your system was functioning correctly you wouldnt need ormi,s fix.

The exact same test has been in force now for a year or so for the abs light. If the light doesnt function exactly as it should then its a fail. Ormi,s fix wouldnt work for the abs light as some lights stay on for 2 seconds after the engine starts with ormi,s "repair" the light would go out as soon as the engine fired(or at least as soon as oil presure was achieved).

The new rules also cover brake fluid warning lights and main beem warning lights some stability control lights, epc lights (vag group cars) pretty well much any warnign light on the dash that shouldnt work as it should will become an mot fail. You could wire most of them to the oil presure switch but wouldnt it be better ans safer to just fix the problem.

I was told on the night of the seminar that one mot tester commented that the new rules would just mean he would sell alot more black tape (to cover up the bulbs) he also failed to grasp that a light not workign at all was also a fail.

[fil4362]

as a post script seat belt pretensioners are also coming into the mot test. If the seat belt pretensioner has been fired this is/will be an mot fail. It doesnt stop the seat belt working and holding you in the seat in the event of a crash but it isnt working as designed and is/will become a fail. Basicly from january next year it will be "harder"?? to past the mot if your car has warning lights that dont exactly as they should.

[dave1]

I agree that srs is designed to work but what I was trying to get at is that Ormi's "fix" would not alter whether it worked or not and I'm sure he would not be the only person to think of this "fix." With all these "safety" systems on modern cars there is obviously a need for them to be tested at some point but the question is where will the line be drawn as it would be impractical to be able to check all the various safety systems.

Out of interest was any mention made of checking airbags on cars over 10 years old?

I still say "kiddy seats" should be fitted in the rear seats only whether 2 or 4 door car. What purpose is served by having them in the front seat?

[fil4362]

I agree that srs is designed to work but what I was trying to get at is that Ormi's "fix" would not alter whether it worked or not and I'm sure he would not be the only person to think of this "fix." With all these "safety" systems on modern cars there is obviously a need for them to be tested at some point but the question is where will the line be drawn as it would be impractical to be able to check all the various safety systems.

Out of interest was any mention made of checking airbags on cars over 10 years old?

I still say "kiddy seats" should be fitted in the rear seats only whether 2 or 4 door car. What purpose is served by having them in the front seat?

ormi,s "fix" wouldnt stop the system working, the fact the light was on would mean the system wasnt working in the first place. As i mentioned if the lights on the system doesnt work, all ormi,s "fix" would achieve is to make the light work correctly. The rest of the system still wouldnt function,the air bags wouldnt go of in a crash as the system shuts down if theres a fault. The abs system work the same way. If the wanring lights on the abs doesnt work. This is my entire point about ormi,s fix. It would get the car through the test but it shouldnt have passed as the airbags dont work. All the warnign lights on your dash that come on with the ignition should go out whent he engine is started,if the dont come on or dont go out when they have been on then theres a fault on the system that relates to that light. Ormi,s fix would make it appear there isnt any faults.

The airbag on 10 year old cars was discussed but as with the rest of the test the rule is if its testable item then test it if its not testable they will tell you about it.

I dont see a problem with child seats in the front or rear of a car as long as the seat is strapped in corectly and the baby/child is in the seat corectly then there shouldnt be a problem unless theres an airbag in the way. The worse problem i se with airbags is (usually women) who sit too close to the steering wheel. The airbag is designed to inflate and give you a crashmat fluffy pillow in the event of a crash if you sit to close it will hit you on the way out as you come down onto it . In this case the airbag will do you more harm than good.

[dave1]

The airbag on 10 year old cars was discussed but as with the rest of the test the rule is if its testable item then test it if its not testable they will tell you about it.

I dont see a problem with child seats in the front or rear of a car as long as the seat is strapped in corectly and the baby/child is in the seat corectly then there shouldnt be a problem unless theres an airbag in the way. The worse problem i se with airbags is (usually women) who sit too close to the steering wheel. The airbag is designed to inflate and give you a crashmat fluffy pillow in the event of a crash if you sit to close it will hit you on the way out as you come down onto it . In this case the airbag will do you more harm than good.

As I said previously, the fact that the srs light doesn't illuminate could be a faulty bulb. What I wondered was whether VOSA had mentioned anything regarding the possible introduction of some system to actually check airbags, especially after 10 years, although I have no idea how it would be done.

Totally agree about the drivers who sit right up to the steering wheel.

If kiddy seats were restricted to rear seats there would be no problem as to whether passenger airbag was turned off or not. Why do folk even want their children in the front in their kiddy seat anyway.

[ormi]

if their was a major fault with the air bag system lets say the ecu was shot then the bags wouldnt work.......but if it was a fault with the pretensioners,seat position sensor then the bags would still work and the pretensioner that wasnt faulty would work or if it was the seat position sensor then the bag would go off on the factory time delay......

theirs lots of reasons you'd want to do this ie you race the car and you've stripped it out or you've got an after market steering wheel etc..

also you could also fit a resistor in the wiring which would put the light on and off...

[fil4362]

yes Dave1 it could just be a faulty bulb but if it was just a bulb how would you know if the airbag system was working or not. The warning light is part of the system if it doesnt work then it fails the test.

If your oil light didnt work you would get it fixed as you wouldnt know if you had oil in the engine or not until the car stopped.

Bottom line is if you have got a fault on your car get it fixed dont get round the fault with "fixes",especially when its an important saftey device. I seem to remember me being slated not so long ago for driving with "driver aids turned of" after i mentioned i had pulled the fuse on my abs system and turned the traction control off during the snow as i can drive without them having driven for years cars that didnt have them. I recall someone mentioning it was silly for not using them.

Seems to me now theres a suggestion that a faulty saftey devise should be bypassed to keep the car on the road. I even seem to think that a senior member of the site admitted she would have to get hers fixed now, so its not currently working then. Now theres a good example to follow, 2 suggestions your abs/traction control/airbags (which ever it was) doesnt work so ignore it!! and the other suggestion was bodge it to get it through the mot test. My suprise was these suggestions came from a senior member and an mot tester!!.

[ormi]

although i sugested it im not doing it its up to the members.......if it was my air bag light it was on i would trace the fault and fix it!!!!!!

but say janie has a sports steering wheel and sports seats and the seat belts and stalks have been removed due to it being race/road prepped thats a way to solve the problem without having to refit everything shes removed.....

as you well know people are not silly and always ALWAYS find their way around mot rules i really dont condone it but it happens....

use google and it will tell you ways around everything....

[janey]

OMG what have I started

The car in question is race prepped (firstly by TRD in Japan for the Netz cup) it's the actual airbag ecu which has gone which apparently is quite common in Vitz/Yaris's, I have an aftermarket wheel & Momo boss going on this week & I will be fitting a resistor which under normal circumstances would trick the ecu into thinking that there is a working airbag there but I'm still going to have to shell out for a new ecu as that's the problem.

Question for Fil/Ormi anyone else is...... if the car is fitted with an aftermarket wheel & resistors instead of the original wheel with airbag will that be a future fail (ignoring the light as hopefully will be sorted by then) as the car originally fitted with airbags ?

[dave1]

yes Dave1 it could just be a faulty bulb but if it was just a bulb how would you know if the airbag system was working or not. The warning light is part of the system if it doesnt work then it fails the test.

If your oil light didnt work you would get it fixed as you wouldnt know if you had oil in the engine or not until the car stopped.

Bottom line is if you have got a fault on your car get it fixed dont get round the fault with "fixes",especially when its an important saftey device. I seem to remember me being slated not so long ago for driving with "driver aids turned of" after i mentioned i had pulled the fuse on my abs system and turned the traction control off during the snow as i can drive without them having driven for years cars that didnt have them. I recall someone mentioning it was silly for not using them.

Seems to me now theres a suggestion that a faulty saftey devise should be bypassed to keep the car on the road. I even seem to think that a senior member of the site admitted she would have to get hers fixed now, so its not currently working then. Now theres a good example to follow, 2 suggestions your abs/traction control/airbags (which ever it was) doesnt work so ignore it!! and the other suggestion was bodge it to get it through the mot test. My suprise was these suggestions came from a senior member and an mot tester!!.

In no way would I suggest that cars should be driven with faults fil4362. I have been driving since 1968 and I was always taught to fix problems immediately and not try to bodge or evade them. What might be a simple £5 repair now could suddenly become a £500 repair if left. I merely stated that a dashlight not illuminating might not mean that there was anything wrong with the actual airbag system, but I do take on board your comments about failed bulbs possibly masking other faults. It is of more concern that there appears no simple way to check the condition of the airbags for MOT purposes. As you say, the light is part of the system so if it doesn't work it will fail MOT (if/when this is actually introduced) but it still doesn't mean that the airbag will deploy safely if, as seems to be the case, they can be dangerous after 10 years old. Just my thoughts....as you said, you don't make the rules.

[ormi]

OMG what have I started

The car in question is race prepped (firstly by TRD in Japan for the Netz cup) it's the actual airbag ecu which has gone which apparently is quite common in Vitz/Yaris's, I have an aftermarket wheel & Momo boss going on this week & I will be fitting a resistor which under normal circumstances would trick the ecu into thinking that there is a working airbag there but I'm still going to have to shell out for a new ecu as that's the problem.

Question for Fil/Ormi anyone else is...... if the car is fitted with an aftermarket wheel & resistors instead of the original wheel with airbag will that be a future fail (ignoring the light as hopefully will be sorted by then) as the car originally fitted with airbags ?

no it wont be a fail as the light will come on and go off correctly if your fitting a resistor inplace of the airbag....

[fil4362]

Personally joney i think it will fail as its been deliberatly modified and as such doesnt work. The car should have one if it hasnt then its a fail. What ever happens the new rules WILL change when in january if you havnt got an airbag then it doesnt work properly does it. If its part of the original design then its a fail most items under current rules can fail if "deliberatly modified" in such a way to cause it not to function correclty. I think taking it out all together will cause it not to function correctly wont be doing you any use sat in your shed should you crash, just as a thought does your insurance company know you have removed it?? Its a pretty important saftey device ok you might never crash but what next not wearing your seat belt why not take your seatbelts out as well afterall if you havnt got one you cant wear it. I think thats what the rule is going to say on the matter If it doesnt function correctly then its a fail.

By the way vosa are actually looking into a scan tool the will check all onboard systems. They are in the market place trying to find a quick cheap reliable tool that will check every system as part of the test. If and when they find one they wil then try to get it in as part of the test.

Dave1 it could just be a faulty bulb but if i fail a car for the light being on and the owner simply goes away and takes the bulb out does that then mean i have to pass it. Removing the bulb so it didnt light up is the oldest trick there is. The only way to have a simple pass or fail is to kep it simple if the light doesnt work as it should then theres a problem with the system and it should fail.

To me its simple, the bigger problem i see is retest fees. If your car fails for a light not working you get to the end of the next working day to fix it and return for free rest. IF and airbag light is considered a light and not a brake component,then it should come under the same retest fees. Lets face it if your car gets tested at dinner time chances are your not getting it back next day repaired. Alot fo garages still dont have equipment to even diagnose the fault therefore your car would be in the dealers. You migh tnot get your car back for a week if it ends up in the dealer system. You will end up with a full restest just for a bulb!!.

Most Abs systems dont activate (therefore register a fault) until the car goes over 5/6mph. In the case a carcould have its abs light turned of by the owner in the car park then when it came for test it would pass as i wouldnt have triggered the fault as i wouldnt have driven it fast enough to actually turn the system on. So theres ways round these light still passing the mot even when there is a fault. THe only sure fire way is to get the scan tool brought in as part of the test,the only down side to this is the increase in cost of equipment to test stations and theefore would mean a rise in test fee to cover the casts.

[janey]

OMG what have I started

The car in question is race prepped (firstly by TRD in Japan for the Netz cup) it's the actual airbag ecu which has gone which apparently is quite common in Vitz/Yaris's, I have an aftermarket wheel & Momo boss going on this week & I will be fitting a resistor which under normal circumstances would trick the ecu into thinking that there is a working airbag there but I'm still going to have to shell out for a new ecu as that's the problem.

Question for Fil/Ormi anyone else is...... if the car is fitted with an aftermarket wheel & resistors instead of the original wheel with airbag will that be a future fail (ignoring the light as hopefully will be sorted by then) as the car originally fitted with airbags ?

no it wont be a fail as the light will come on and go off correctly if your fitting a resistor inplace of the airbag....

Personally joney i think it will fail as its been deliberatly modified and as such doesnt work. The car should have one if it hasnt then its a fail. What ever happens the new rules WILL change when in january if you havnt got an airbag then it doesnt work properly does it. If its part of the original design then its a fail most items under current rules can fail if "deliberatly modified" in such a way to cause it not to function correclty. I think taking it out all together will cause it not to function correctly wont be doing you any use sat in your shed should you crash, just as a thought does your insurance company know you have removed it?? Its a pretty important saftey device ok you might never crash but what next not wearing your seat belt why not take your seatbelts out as well afterall if you havnt got one you cant wear it. I think thats what the rule is going to say on the matter If it doesnt function correctly then its a fail.

By the way vosa are actually looking into a scan tool the will check all onboard systems. They are in the market place trying to find a quick cheap reliable tool that will check every system as part of the test. If and when they find one they wil then try to get it in as part of the test.

Ohh conflicting stuff :duh: Thanks for your input guys :D

So..if the light doesn't come on (with use of resistor) it should be ok and guessing that a scanning tool (if they ever get round to introducing them) won't pick it up as a fault due to the resistor being in place 'tricking' the system

I can perfectly understand how the safety aspect & original design re: failure could come into it all though I think that the 'deliberately modified' bit maybe tough for them to judge especially on a car like mine as it's (as far as I know) the only 1 of it's kind in the country (and yes my insurance co. are fully aware of what it all is) though as seatbelts are required by Law and airbags aren't will they have the power to fail despite whether it originally had one or not it as they aren't required by law. If the answer to this is yes then there's going to be a heck of a lot of modified car owners in the poop

Looks like I'm just going to have to wait until MOT time then I will be hanging onto the old wheel just in case though :winky:

[fil4362]

It will all come down to the wording of the new rules Janey. If like ABS lights the rule just reads "check the light functions correctly" then your fine. If its worded like an an exhaust "check to see if any part of the system is missing" then it a fail. Pretty well much all cars since the late 90s have had atleast one airbag and vosa usually leave it to the testers discresion,it could still be a fail. .

Another example of what could happen,, Ladas didnt use to have catalitic converters but still had to be tested in the same manner. The only way round it was to get a letter from Lada that read "the vehicle in question was never designed to meet the required standards". I never saw a single letter stating such like subsequently Ladas disapeared of our roads within 12-18 months. Vosa could give you the same option. This rule could be applied to your car Your arguement of not knowing if it was original design wouldnt stand up to this. Not having an airbag to me isnt a saftey issue i dont plan on finding out if mine work but liek i said its not my rules i just have to enforce them.Lets wait and see what the new rules come out as. As sson as i see what they new rules are anything else is speculation.

[ormi]

spoke to a vosa boy on this matter today..(he was in testing a new tester)the a/b system is going to be tested like the abs light must light up for 1.5 to 2 seconds then go so if it does this then its a pass but he said not to rule out ob2 testers within a few years..(too expensive to kit out stations now)

[Boxbrownie]

I agree that srs is designed to work but what I was trying to get at is that Ormi's "fix" would not alter whether it worked or not and I'm sure he would not be the only person to think of this "fix." With all these "safety" systems on modern cars there is obviously a need for them to be tested at some point but the question is where will the line be drawn as it would be impractical to be able to check all the various safety systems.

Out of interest was any mention made of checking airbags on cars over 10 years old?

I still say "kiddy seats" should be fitted in the rear seats only whether 2 or 4 door car. What purpose is served by having them in the front seat?

FWIW there is new legislation coming up for "larger" child safety seats, and some of the smaller current vehicles will not pass regulations for fitment in the rear seats due to lack of space, so some people will have no choice.....having said that current seats will fit most rear occupant areas and should be fitted there rather than the forward seating area.

One other point of course is that some three door vehicles make it practically impossible to buckle in a child whilst the seat is fitted in the rear.