Purchase Price Data - How Much Did You Pay?

[benvallack]

Hiya,

I'm thinking about getting an LS400 Mk4 - sounds like the best one of the LS400 bunch. However, looking on eBay and Auto Trader there seems to be a wild over-estimation of asking prices compared to the figures I've seen mentioned on here. Certainly the ones from dealers. I'm assuming people have made lower offers and they've been accepted. The question is how much is a sensible offer.

I wonder if this thread could be used to consolidate a list of cars and prices you've paid for them (and any problems which you later found about which might have explained a low offer acceptance!). Perhaps using this as a basis:

Model: (i.e LS400 Mk4)

Year:

Asking Price:

Price actually paid:

Date purchased:

Condition:

Mileage:

Full Service History:

Lexus Service History:

Color: (just out of interest!)

I guess a lot of people on here have also sold cars so would be good to know how much you let them go for!!

Also - if anyone knows of any Mk4s near Bath please let me know - can't seem to find any much nearer than 100 miles away from me.

[Scribe]

I think there are two problems here. Firstly, there's the personal one - that a lot of people will be unwilling to disclose how much they bought or sold their Lexuses for. In the past, when a member has been sharing the excitement of his new purchase and another member has asked bluntly, 'How much did you pay for it?' there's been a resounding silence, as if to say, 'Mind your own business.' The other problem is a more general one that probably affects all of us who have old LS400s: there's no official market value for any car that old, so to some extent they're only worth what people will pay for them. And that seems to vary - sometimes from month to month. For example, prices on eBay and Autotrader seem higher at the moment than in the spring. There's also the complication of old LS430s, which can now be picked up for the same price as late 400s. Plus there's the issue of mileage, which seems to affect the value of Lexuses less than it does other cars - maintenance history being more important. It's often been pointed out on here that the overpriced cars stay unsold for months, but I think finding a bargain is still largely a matter of luck. As a general guide (at the moment) I would have thought a decent Mk.IV would fetch at least 1500 quid; and at the top end, whatever someone will pay to get a rare late, excellent condition car (which few owners want to sell).

[Scribe]

I forgot to add: good luck with your search. Be prepared to travel around to look for a decent car - I did (and I don't regret it).

[benvallack]

Thanks for the info. I do appreciate the point you're making. I have however seen quite a few threads on here where people have mentioned their purchase price so did assume that there would be others who would also be happy to share. Still, you can but ask!

Yeah it is looking like I'm going to have to travel some distance to find a good one.

[Bluesman]

Thanks for the info. I do appreciate the point you're making. I have however seen quite a few threads on here where people have mentioned their purchase price so did assume that there would be others who would also be happy to share. Still, you can but ask!

Yeah it is looking like I'm going to have to travel some distance to find a good one.

Hi Ben.

Its like all these things nothing comes easy and the work that finding a good car involves should just be looked at as part of the process of finding that pot of gold.

I think in this day and age with the pictures of cars on the internet you can easily fall into the trap of traveling hundreds of miles to look at a wreck which looked perfect in the pics when really we should look at more the way the advert has been written and the manner in which it has been written.

Someone who has nothing to hide will clearly present Mileage, MOT, Road Tax Service history/Full service history and so on they will also provide clear focused pictures of the car showing not just the good bits but the bad bits as well.

I recently sold our Mondeo ST24 and posted 43 pictures and loads of info. It sold well and no nutters.

If someone cant be bothered to do this then they don't deserve your custom and hard earn't money.

After all that said you might think that the type of advert you are looking for is rare and you would be right and the reason for that is the car you are after is also rare, but just keep hunting don't get carried away with pretty pictures and you will find the car of your dreams.

Good luck Mike

[Scribe]

Absolutely - you can but ask. Personally, I'd be suspicious of a Mk.IV that cost less than £1500, and I probably wouldn't spend more than £3000 on one because I'd then be in 430 territory. On the other hand, I'd much rather have a good late 400 than a not-so-good early 430.

I planned to look at a few before buying, because otherwise I'd have no means of comparison. The first one was okay, but only okay, for the money; the second, which was about 250 miles away, was a year older, with 30,000 more miles, but in much better condition and about £500 less, and I bought it on the spot.

Buying such an old car is a risk, but you minimise the risk by knowing what to look for. Lots of new members/owners have asked for advice about this - I did it myself - so have a look at the various threads on here. And of course feel free to ask for information - we're happy to share it because we love our cars so much!

[Scribe]

Another thought: It's a sad fact that the value of older 400s puts them in banger territory, which means that many of them are traded by 'dealers' who operate from their driveways, who know little about Lexuses, and who spend as little as possible on preparing them for sale. Then there are the forecourt-based dealers who wack £500-1000 on the price to cover their overheads and a short warranty, and whose cars then sit unsold for months. The official Lexus dealerships rarely have 400s for sale these days - the now defunct Brighton dealership told me they sold traded-in 400s to independent dealers or put them through car auctions. So maybe the best bet is a private seller who's had the car for a while.

[Dave76]

Well I paid about £150 above the last eBay bid at the moment in time. Its '95 & had 125k on the clock, good but not perfect SH. Reason I paid above was I had been looking on eBay 'at that time' for around 2 months more or less but on persistent asking of the right questions all the 'perfects' were far below 'perfects' & quite a lot of delayed & evasive answeres to the questions, I think they are crucial to buying an LS on eBay.

In the last min or so it went to just under £800 & I think it might have ended between that & £820-50 - I have thought of my top offer long before that & made a bit within the last 12 secs or so of £920 - but - method in madness, I knew bids were averaging £20 but in the short time left people would be to confused by the sudden extra £120 bid they would not have time to collect their thoughts & make a decision on their price...

I never looked back - very pleased with it despite the fact I 'might'....or 'might not' have got it around £80-100 quid cheaper.

[Dave76]

PS...I think if your buying off eBay then either eBay literacy or plain damned luck are essentials.

[Bluesman]

Well I paid about £150 above the last ebay bid at the moment in time. Its '95 & had 125k on the clock, good but not perfect SH. Reason I paid above was I had been looking on ebay 'at that time' for around 2 months more or less but on persistent asking of the right questions all the 'perfects' were far below 'perfects' & quite a lot of delayed & evasive answeres to the questions, I think they are crucial to buying an LS on ebay.

In the last min or so it went to just under £800 & I think it might have ended between that & £820-50 - I have thought of my top offer long before that & made a bit within the last 12 secs or so of £920 - but - method in madness, I knew bids were averaging £20 but in the short time left people would be to confused by the sudden extra £120 bid they would not have time to collect their thoughts & make a decision on their price...

I never looked back - very pleased with it despite the fact I 'might'....or 'might not' have got it around £80-100 quid cheaper.

Its also worth remembering if purchased on eBay that when you go to pay and pick the car up, if when checking the car over you find something that wasn't declared in the auction description there is no onus on you completing the deal. ( Finding a dead fly on the windscreen wouldn't be cause to not finalise the deal)

So always print off the auction details and have them with you when picking the car up.

Mike

[Scribe]

We're talking about cars that are between 12 and 23 years old, so they're all going to have some 'issues' and they're all going to need regular maintenance. But if you're serious about buying one, and know what to look for, you can tell the difference between a basically sound, looked-after car that needs a bit spending on it (e.g. wheel refurbishment, wishbone replacement, paintwork) and a neglected money pit. Like Dave76, I probably paid £50-100 more for mine than I needed to, but after travelling such a long way to look at it, and seeing that it was a good one, I wasn't going to risk losing it to someone else. There aren't THAT many to choose from, after all. The only major problem I've had is with the dreaded starter motor, but that can happen to any 400 and it wasn't a problem when I bought the car.

[mikeyv]

Well I paid about £150 above the last ebay bid at the moment in time. Its '95 & had 125k on the clock, good but not perfect SH. Reason I paid above was I had been looking on ebay 'at that time' for around 2 months more or less but on persistent asking of the right questions all the 'perfects' were far below 'perfects' & quite a lot of delayed & evasive answeres to the questions, I think they are crucial to buying an LS on ebay.

In the last min or so it went to just under £800 & I think it might have ended between that & £820-50 - I have thought of my top offer long before that & made a bit within the last 12 secs or so of £920 - but - method in madness, I knew bids were averaging £20 but in the short time left people would be to confused by the sudden extra £120 bid they would not have time to collect their thoughts & make a decision on their price...

I never looked back - very pleased with it despite the fact I 'might'....or 'might not' have got it around £80-100 quid cheaper.

eBay should only use enough of your best bid to make you top bidder.

I know this having bid £15,000,000 for a motorhome, instead of £15,000, and getting it for £14,700.

Thank God I wasn't up against somebody as daft as me, or my 100% feedback might have been under threat!!

[Malc]

Maybe try to find someone on here who is selling a good one . that might take some of the sting from the trauma of finding one.

Wasn't I lucky to find ACLex's magnificent Mk3 and get that,........... last June now !

Malc

[Dave76]

Ebay should only use enough of your best bid to make you top bidder.

Its odd you say that. I have bid over the odds before on some smaller things & won but the price went back down to 'just' above the other bidders when I won, I was thinking about those things when I bid on the LS, but, it did not go back down this time, there is a POSSIBILITY that whilst I was making that bid and could see nothing but the process of my making my bid someone else came close, I dont know.

[Bluesman]

Ebay should only use enough of your best bid to make you top bidder.

Its odd you say that. I have bid over the odds before on some smaller things & won but the price went back down to 'just' above the other bidders when I won, I was thinking about those things when I bid on the LS, but, it did not go back down this time, there is a POSSIBILITY that whilst I was making that bid and could see nothing but the process of my making my bid someone else came close, I dont know.

You can always check how the bidding has completed by clicking onto the number of bids and although it wont give you the bidder name you can see in eBay hieroglyphics what the under bidders were doing.

Mike

[mikeyv]

Ebay should only use enough of your best bid to make you top bidder.

Its odd you say that. I have bid over the odds before on some smaller things & won but the price went back down to 'just' above the other bidders when I won, I was thinking about those things when I bid on the LS, but, it did not go back down this time, there is a POSSIBILITY that whilst I was making that bid and could see nothing but the process of my making my bid someone else came close, I dont know.

Does it also depend on what bidding increments apply possibly?

Might be 50p for example on small items, but £50 on something like a car, so if best bid was £1200, eBay would take £1250 from you rather than £1201, but then would they not allow a bid from you if you had 1249 as best bid?

I've given myself a headache now, time for a lie down.

[benvallack]

Thanks for all the interesting points. Yes I was hoping to find someone on here who's selling. Some of the way the eBay listings are written doesn't exactly fill you with confidence! You're right about the detail, explanation and photos of all issues - they add so much credibility to a listing.

Regarding the eBay price you pay when you win a bid - I think it comes down to what the previous winning bidder has set as his/her highest bid to. For example lets say Joe has added a maximum bid of £100 to an item. The listing had a starting big of £50 so eBay will only bid £51.00 on Joe's behalf, i.e enough to be the highest bidder. Then, if Jane comes along as says, "hum I want this, I'm going to put £200 maximum bid on it", eBay will then set her bid to £101.00 - enough to beat Joe's bid, but no more. If someone else, John, comes along and thinks "I want to enter the running, I'm going to bid £150" - eBay will then actually just change Jane's bid to £151.00, but she'll still be the highest bidder. John's bid doesn't even get him anywhere. He'll need to bid again with a higher bid than Jane's £200 to actually be the highest bidder. So I think the explains why some people are seeing big leaps after bidding on lower current bids.

[Bluesman]

Thanks for all the interesting points. Yes I was hoping to find someone on here who's selling. Some of the way the eBay listings are written doesn't exactly fill you with confidence! You're right about the detail, explanation and photos of all issues - they add so much credibility to a listing.

Regarding the eBay price you pay when you win a bid - I think it comes down to what the previous winning bidder has set as his/her highest bid to. For example lets say Joe has added a maximum bid of £100 to an item. The listing had a starting big of £50 so eBay will only bid £51.00 on Joe's behalf, i.e enough to be the highest bidder. Then, if Jane comes along as says, "hum I want this, I'm going to put £200 maximum bid on it", eBay will then set her bid to £101.00 - enough to beat Joe's bid, but no more. If someone else, John, comes along and thinks "I want to enter the running, I'm going to bid £150" - eBay will then actually just change Jane's bid to £151.00, but she'll still be the highest bidder. John's bid doesn't even get him anywhere. He'll need to bid again with a higher bid than Jane's £200 to actually be the highest bidder. So I think the explains why some people are seeing big leaps after bidding on lower current bids.

bang on thats exactly

Thanks for all the interesting points. Yes I was hoping to find someone on here who's selling. Some of the way the eBay listings are written doesn't exactly fill you with confidence! You're right about the detail, explanation and photos of all issues - they add so much credibility to a listing.

Regarding the eBay price you pay when you win a bid - I think it comes down to what the previous winning bidder has set as his/her highest bid to. For example lets say Joe has added a maximum bid of £100 to an item. The listing had a starting big of £50 so eBay will only bid £51.00 on Joe's behalf, i.e enough to be the highest bidder. Then, if Jane comes along as says, "hum I want this, I'm going to put £200 maximum bid on it", eBay will then set her bid to £101.00 - enough to beat Joe's bid, but no more. If someone else, John, comes along and thinks "I want to enter the running, I'm going to bid £150" - eBay will then actually just change Jane's bid to £151.00, but she'll still be the highest bidder. John's bid doesn't even get him anywhere. He'll need to bid again with a higher bid than Jane's £200 to actually be the highest bidder. So I think the explains why some people are seeing big leaps after bidding on lower current bids.

Bang on that's exactly how it works. Happy hunting Mike

[plastic orange]

Check out your local car auctions as they can appear from time to time. I know of a 2000 LS 400 with full MOT that went locally for £400 - and everything works as it should.

Pete

[benvallack]

Car auction is an interesting idea. What sort of access do you get to check the cars over before? I've not had any experience of car auctions and the idea is pretty scary! Any tips/best practices? £400 for a 2000 with everything working is incredible.

[Malc]

In my limited experience ( as an ex car dealer and trader, some years ago now tho' ) at auction you get to see the car, read it's history ( if there is any ) check out the MOT and documents, and then watch and listen to the car being driven through the block by one of the auction house staff as you make your bid.

That's it ! You might even know the vendor maybe ( another car trader or garage ) to give you some inkling of it's quality or not.

If the car is cheap ( as a Lexus LS400 will be ) it will probably be " sold as seen " with NO recourse.

Drive away when you have paid your cleared funds to the auction house and expect it to have little or no fuel, maybe no road tax and maybe just a day or two's MOT possibly.

And don't forget to pre-arrange the insurance OR get a car trader friend to help you, drive it away for you on his trade plates and then worry about the road tax situation and insurance at your leisure.

More expensive cars from dealers and the like just might have some sort of warranted mileage etc and especially if they have come off lease rental or whatever.

Bit of a chancy thing to do to my mind without some help from a friend who knows summat about the car you're thinking of buying !

But you might get a goodun and be laughing all the way to the bank .. don't forget that car dealers and traders also BUY cars at auctions and assess their likely purchase from a position of some knowledge and strength.

Good luck if you go that route

Malc