Piston Slap Issue And How Can I Avoid

[Carl911]

I have been looking at buying an IS250 but recently read about the issue with piston slap from cold.

I will most likely be looking at 2006-2007 models within my price range and I am concerned about this problem.

Can someone clarify, does this effect all these years models or was it only a few that had the problem.

I really could not bare that sort of noise every morning.

Is there anything I can look for to avoid buying one with this problem?

Carl

[Carl911]

I have been looking at buying an IS250 but recently read about the issue with piston slap from cold.

I will most likely be looking at 2006-2007 models within my price range and I am concerned about this problem.

Can someone clarify, does this effect all these years models or was it only a few that had the problem.

I really could not bare that sort of noise every morning.

Is there anything I can look for to avoid buying one with this problem?

Carl

Nearly 100 views but still no replies.

Surely someone here has knowledge of this problem.

Even better, who has a 2006 plate and doesn't have the problem, maybe this only ever effected a few.

Carl

[normski2]

I'm sure i saw a comprehensive note about this from someone very knowledgable....think it was Tango. I'll have a hunt around.

Piston Slap?.... this sounds utterly horrendous, finding it hard to believe. Conjures up all sorts of hideous problems.

[bluenose1940]

I have been looking at buying an IS250 but recently read about the issue with piston slap from cold.

I will most likely be looking at 2006-2007 models within my price range and I am concerned about this problem.

Can someone clarify, does this effect all these years models or was it only a few that had the problem.

I really could not bare that sort of noise every morning.

Is there anything I can look for to avoid buying one with this problem?

Carl

Nearly 100 views but still no replies.

Surely someone here has knowledge of this problem.

Even better, who has a 2006 plate and doesn't have the problem, maybe this only ever effected a few.

Carl

Hiya Carl, I have had my 2006 IS250 for a week now and I can honestly say that I have not had any problems with mine. It's pretty quiet right from start-up. I do keep listening for any strange noises particularly since I first read about 'piston-slap' I don't know if this will be of any relevance but mine is a one owner job with full Lexus service history and is absolutely immaculate inside and out, and so I feel that is has been well cared for by the original owner. Not being a mechanic I don't know what causes piston slap, i don't know if it would be caused by particularly hard driving or allowing the car to get low on oil or anything like that. All I would say is to try to find what appears to be a well cared for car that has the full Lexus history but, I would say again, I really don't know how relevant that would really be. I only know that from a personal standpoint I would feel happier choosing a car for myself that met that criteria.

Hope that is of some help or comfort.

Geoff

[normski2]

Try here matey.

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=78869#entry789193

[Carl911]

Try here matey.

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=78869#entry789193

Thanks normski,

I had actually read that thread and was hoping there was more on it.

I guess it seems to be a fairly isolated from the limited threads.

Carl

[Tango]

The piston slap issue from cold appears to be more of a problem with the IS350, but it's hard to determine if that's true because most of the issues have been reported in the USA. Not sure what number of IS250 sales in Norh America are now in comparison to the IS350, but contrary to expectations the smaller engine was selling well when first introduced (probably due to buyers realising that the cost of gas was getting more expensive).

My IS250 SE-L was a 2006 model which I placed on order in March 2005 and received in December 2005, and never suffered from either piston slap or the cold rattle on start-up.

Piston slap occurs at the top and bottom end of stroke in IC engines and can be audible with even small clearances between piston and bore, especially when starting from cold before heat expansion of the pistons reduces the clearance between piston skirts and bores. Some say the viscosity specification of the oil is a factor, but apparently piston slap noise can be transmitted hydraulically through the oil coating the bores anyway. Design of the engine may be a contributing factor as I assume a shorter skirt piston is more prone to the noise.

I wouldn't be at all happy if I had piston slap that did not disappear when the engine warmed from cold, or got progressively worse over time.

[mrahman136]

Hi All,

Just in response to this as Tango provided some info in relation to this in my post (thanks again). Dealer is apparently replacing cam shafts for me this week to resolve the described problem I had ie. Rattling like diesel whilst driving when engine in cold. I will wait and see what this warranty work does for the problem and report back.

[Silver Arrow]

That will probably be the cam adjusters then - the diesel like rattle on startup for a few seconds (rarely up to 30s) which stops abruptly. Akin to someone holding a card board tube against the spokes of a spinning bicycle wheel. This can and does happen on the IS250, especially the earlier ones, but it can happen not only on cold but warm engines too.

That is different to piston slap, which I understood afflicts a a lot of cars. Our VW Golf Mk6 suffers from this horrendously, but I have heard the courtesy cars doing the same. Piston slap is a duller tappety noise, almost like big ends being worn, but only happens when the engine is cold. It doesn't stop abruptly, but gently quietens down over a period of 10seconds or so as the oil rushes in and provides some cushioning.

[briatore]

Hi Carl911

From my basic knowledge on engine operation in general, it sounds like it has much to do with the oil pressure. The valves are regulated by it and when the car is cold and almost all the oil is down in the pan, the pressure to the rocker arms is not sufficient and the valves slap. If you had a car with oil in the engine far below the minimum, this is exactly how it would behave. I've heard a similar in configuration and displacement, albeit much older engine with almost no oil in it, and it sounded quite like this video. It's normal it goes away when the pressure builds up and some oil reaches the lifters.

Other possible reasons, that are less likely because the sound wouldn't go away so fast or at all, are, in order of un-likeliness, that the oil is of the very wrong kind, or the oil filter is clogged, or the oil pump is faulty, or the camshafts are damaged, or the rocker arms are damaged or the chain slipped. Now, there is one more thing that could cause the oil to lose pressure. There is always a hose sucking the oil from the pan, and normally it has a very fine mesh in the end to prevent larger particles from entering the engine with the oil. It could be clogged, but that's extremely rare. Again, I haven't had or worked on the 250, so I could be very wrong. This is all based on what I've learned on other engines and cars.

[Silver Arrow]

There are some Youtube vid's on IS350's in the 'states showing the rattle on startup. These ones are very short duration - like 2-3s, but I have heard some VAG engines doing this for a bit longer. Very un-nerving.

The way they sort it on them is by replacing the cam adjusters, timing chain adjusters and in some cases the whole timing chain! I believe VAG have TSB's (bulletins) on this.

The one on that video from Tim Roberts sounds like a terminal case of Piston Slap....actually sounds more like big ends gone, though our old Toyota Corona used to sound like that, and we found it to be the Exhaust Manifold gaskets.

[rd27]

My car had a rebuild back in 2010 when it was in posession of the first owner at 55k due to the piston slap issue. It's a 2008 '57 reg car, although since the rebuild it's covered 25k and all is still well on cold startup's. The repair bill was £4000 for parts alone, god knows what it would have been including Lexus' labour rates.

[johnatg]

I don't believe this problem is due to piston slap - for one thing, as others have said, it doesn't sound like piston slap, and it would not go away quickly on start up. It would not be cured by a 'top end rebuild'. This noise is much more likely to be caused by the hydraulic tappets (Lexus call them 'lash adjusters').

They get a build up of gum in the very small channels from engine oil, and don't come up to pressure quickly enough when the engine is started. Then it's like conventional tappets with too much clearance. After a couple of seconds, they do get up to pressure and the noise disappears - unless they are really gummed up! It is not a serious or damaging problem as long as it only lasts for a few seconds - just annoying.

The ways to avoid it are:

1) Use the correct engine oil - always fully synthetic - I use Mobil 1 0W-40

2) Change the oil (and filter) every 5000 miles. 10000 intervals are much too long and the official recommendations are there to reduce service costs for fleet users who will dispose of the car anyway at typically 60000 miles.

3) Use an engine flushing additive immediately before every oil change.

If you have the noise, change the oil at 2500 mile intervals and use the flush additive. It will go away after a few such changes.

I have a 2006 IS250 and have no problems.(and a '92 supercharged MX-5 - ditto)

(PS What do I know about the issue? For several years, I was tech adviser for the MX-5 Owners Club (and subsequently Chairman). Mk 1 MX-5s suffered from this, and the cure was as described above. It affected Mk 1 MX-5s to such an extent that Mazda replaced the hydraulic tappets with solid ones for the Mk 2 MX-5. That cured it - but of course, whereas hydraulic tappets are self adjusting, solid ones (buckets and shims) are fiddly, complex and costly to adjust when they do need it - involves measuring clearances and shims, then selecting new shims to make up or reduce the gaps)

JC