Lexus dropping 2.0T for U.K.

[J Henderson]

On Autotrader right now - 18 cars for sale with the 2.0T engine, nationwide. And that's the total for all 4 models combined that feature this engine, not just IS's. Unbelievable.

Surely Lexus could've at least matched these dismal sales figures with a 3.5 V6 option that would've cost peanuts to introduce (it already exists in another country after all). Perhaps the big V6 would be unwanted in the SUVs, but it surely would've done well enough in the RC.

 

[Linas.P]

13 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Believe an IS200t is about 145MPH flat out and 0-60 in 7s. Hardly a snail in my book. Quite a bit quicker than your IS250 too

You probably have "Book of Snail Species" then. On more serious note:

You wrong - IS200t is just a little quicker than IS250. I believe real life results comes at 7.0s vs 7.6s (some claims even 7.4s, but I leave that to them). What is true is that IS250 sound great if you really push it, whereas IS200t sounds trashy without even trying.

And it doesn't really matters what is in your book, you need to put it in perspective - what other manufacturers has to offer in similar shape and price range. And that is - BMW330i - 2.0t engine, but 5.9s 0-60.

@noby76 - I don't think it is what "BMW want me to think", I have owned BMW 328xi and it was awesome "drivers car", it was nowhere near as well built, as reliable, as luxurious as IS250 both before and after it, but for pure driver experience or cornering - it was in another league. Same says every single motoring journalist there is ... on this planet...

@J Henderson - thanks. Same opinion here - especially agree with RC350 (actually seems like it was my post, my mind - bit weird to read).

[paulrnx]

As someone who owned an IS200t for about 5 months and did about 10k miles, I got to know this engine.

It is powerful and feels fast in an IS. I've had a 5 litre V8 XF (385BHP) and two 3 litre twin turbo diesel S XFs, all below 6s to 60, the V8 in 5.5s, and I never felt short of go in my IS200t. I'm not saying it was as quick as these cars, just that it felt rapid. Certainly more so than any IS I've driven apart from of course an ISF.

It is however disappointingly uneconomical. I got the same figures, 32-34 in normal driving as I did in a previous 3rd gen IS250 F-Sport. Not a great sound in comparison with an IS250 either but perfectly ok judged in isolation.

The other disappointment of the IS200t was the lack of zing in the engine. It just didn't seem to rev that quickly in comparison with other 4 pot 2 litre turbos - I've driven Golf GTIs and owned an A5 Coupe 211 TFSI and they all rev so much quicker and are faster as a result of it. Just driven a current model 328i and this is also quite a bit nicer than an IS200t.

If Lexus took a bit of inertia out of the engine and made it more economical I think it would have sold in many more numbers. But then they wouldn't sell so many hybrids. I think they missed a trick to be honest.

Oh and the supposed direct shift gearbox was pretty horrible but I learned to drive around the worst shifts by feathering the throttle. From memory, the 3rd to 2nd shift, be it manually initiated or auto initiated, was simply not good enough in a modern car.

All in all though, I enjoyed the car way more than any Lexus hybrid I've owned. But that's probably because I've never owned a 450h!

[paulrnx]

9 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

You probably have "Book of Snail Species" then. On more serious note:

You wrong - IS200t is just a little quicker than IS250. I believe real life results comes at 7.0s vs 7.6s (some claims even 7.4s, but I leave that to them). What is true is that IS250 sound great if you really push it, whereas IS200t sounds trashy without even trying.

And it doesn't really matters what is in your book, you need to put it in perspective - what other manufacturers has to offer in similar shape and price range. And that is - BMW330i - 2.0t engine, but 5.9s 0-60.

@noby76 - I don't think it is what "BMW want me to think", I have owned BMW 328xi and it was awesome "drivers car", it was nowhere near as well built, as reliable, as luxurious as IS250 both before and after it, but for pure driver experience or cornering - it was in another league. Same says every single motoring journalist there is ... on this planet...

@J Henderson - thanks. Same opinion here - especially agree with RC350 (actually seems like it was my post, my mind - bit weird to read).

Oh man. I have never driven an IS250 that feels that quick. Never. Let's just disagree on this one

[Linas.P]

7 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Oh man. I have never driven an IS250 that feels that quick. Never. Let's just disagree on this one

you mean 7.6s?

I have tried times and times again with ODB2+GPS - 7.6s is standard 0-60 without any mods and without any luck. Pretty simple to achieve as well - put it in D, PWR-On, do not use S or paddle shifters and you have it. You can go to various forums and car magazines which actually tested IS250 in real life condition and all report it being much faster than official 8.2s.

Obviously, video like that are wrong as the speed is inaccurate on Speedo (though he tried to cover it by doing 0-105 instead of 100) :

 

[Linas.P]

@paulrnx - actually, I was probably being wrong above.

Doing some research I actually realised that 0-60 time in IS250 is 7.3s. The confusion comes from 0-100km which is ~0-62 miles. So IS250 does 0-62 miles in 7.6s... that is what I got myself, because I was all the time using metric and incorrectly converting 0-100km into 0-60 miles, whereas I was doing 62.

Now for IS200t defence - the official time is 7.2s, but actual times are quicker as well ~7s. BUT that is to 0-60 and not 0-62, meaning that actually cars comes extremely close at 7.0s vs. 7.3s

[paulrnx]

Nope. I've owned two and they never felt that quick, ever. I drive my wife's Mini Coper 1.5t which is about 7.8s to 60 and it feels faster than both of my IS250s. I just don't believe an IS250 is capable of 7.6s. Certainly not the ones I've driven anyway. Probably driven about 10 in total I'd say. A 2nd gen IS250 feels quicker than a 3rd gen IS250 though. Marginal but definitely felt a bit quicker. If an IS250 can do 7.6s then maybe an IS200t is a low 6s car. Must be if an IS250 can lop about 0.6-0.7s off its official acceleration figure. Maybe all cars are like this in your world?

[paulrnx]

10 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

@paulrnx - actually, I was probably being wrong above.

Doing some research I actually realised that 0-60 time in IS250 is 7.3s. The confusion comes from 0-100km which is ~0-62 miles. So IS250 does 0-62 miles in 7.6s... that is what I got myself, because I was all the time using metric and incorrectly converting 0-100km into 0-60 miles, whereas I was doing 62.

Now for IS200t defence - the official time is 7.2s, but actual times are quicker as well ~7s. BUT that is to 0-60 and not 0-62, meaning that actually cars comes extremely close at 7.0s vs. 7.3s

Awesome. Even better. Next week they'll be dipping below the 7s 0-60 which should make them feel even quicker

[rayaans]

7 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Stop thinking inside the box. It doesn't matter what I want, the fact is that IS200t or 2.0t engine was huge flop, so much in fact that Lexus is dropping this engine across the range mid-cycle. That is not what Linas wants or not happy about - there are actual problems, obvious for anyone looking to buy new car.

What is the difference between me and the rest? I am just to loyal and too patient, additionally I am active member of this forum... the rest just chooses other brands and will never come to say what they think about Lexus IS200t in this forum. But it doesn't mean it makes IS200t any better. Simply by any measurable way it is not competitive proposition by Lexus.... Are they trying to say that the only reason to buy their car is their brand badge and they don't really need to back it-up by it actually being any good? If that is sufficient for people then it is quite sad..

Well this is blatantly wrong.

Huge flop?! Lexus only offered the 200t in the UK so there are more options available for buyers who don't want a hybrid. 

Their main market is the US and the 200t drivetrain sells like hotcakes in the NX. Australia and New Zealand have the 200t option and they buy them, as well as countries such as Phillipines and Malaysia. 

The 200t is perfectly fine - you just need to get that finger out of your backside - if you can find it

[Linas.P]

Just now, rayaans said:

The 200t is perfectly fine

Tell that to Lexus, it seems they have different opinion than you... 

[paulrnx]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

Tell that to Lexus, it seems they have different opinion than you... 

Guess that's what you and Lexus have in common then

[Linas.P]

13 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

Awesome. Even better. Next week they'll be dipping below the 7s 0-60 which should make them feel even quicker

I am not asking you to believe me..  go and do your own research, come back with proof and I will be more than glad to be worn, because that will amount for good and factual discussion. 

I wish there would be more in common between me and Lexus e.g. RC350 in UK.

[rayaans]

6 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Tell that to Lexus, it seems they have different opinion than you... 

Well they dont because if you read the title of this thread, it says "UK" in it, not the world

[talaipwros]

1 hour ago, noby76 said:

But thats what BMW has sold to you... tell you 1 thing real drivers look past the badge... nice cars but overrated in my opinion.

better value for money I am afraid

[paulrnx]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

I am not asking you to believe me..  go and do your own research, come back with proof and I will be more than glad to be worn, because that will amount for good and factual discussion. 

I wish there would be more in common between me and Lexus e.g. RC350 in UK.

I did all the research I needed to when I had my 2nd gen IS250 SE-L for nigh on 3 years and about 60,000 miles. I did some more research when I had my 3rd gen IS350 for 7 months and about 18,000 miles. I also did a bit more research when I test drove about 8 or so other vehicles including courtesy cars when mine were in for servicing. Suspect you've done plenty of keyboard research. Bet your p***s is bigger than mine too

[paulrnx]

5 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Well they dont because if you read the title of this thread, it says "UK" in it, not the world

I don't think he's going to let a simple fact like that get in the way of his argument 

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

I did all the research I needed to when I had my 2nd gen IS250 SE-L for nigh on 3 years and about 60,000 miles. I did some more research when I had my 3rd gen IS350 for 7 months and about 18,000 miles. I also did a bit more research when I test drove about 8 or so other vehicles including courtesy cars when mine were in for servicing. Suspect you've done plenty of keyboard research. Bet your p***s is bigger than mine too

I am sure about the last one....

Well done you seasoned driver like I am. I had 3x IS250 and bunch of other similar cars in quite short time span so was able to get good sense for all the differences.

As I have said before, I have tried with OBD2+GPS and it came back as 7.6s 0-62mph. That is in line with what other are reporting with Racelogic and similar kits. Similarly my comment above is in line what people are reporting in terms of IS200t acceleration (that is 0-60 in 7.0s) again... using Racelogic and similar.

What I can say about IS200t experience, I have not timed it, but it felt slow and sounded trashy... that is it.

[Linas.P]

4 minutes ago, paulrnx said:

I don't think he's going to let a simple fact like that get in the way of his argument 

If we really think about it... that is just a rumour anyway. Something somebody said to somebody, which was reported on forum where anybody can say anything..... I am a bit surprised that you bunch of geniuses haven't pointed out that before me.

I guess we have discussion for the sake of having it, but again my original comment was - "if that is true I would be very happy for that, I hate this trashy engine and hope they will replace it with something better".... but there were plenty of 2.0t heroes defending it, which then 150 post later left us with where we are.

[paulrnx]

Just now, Linas.P said:

I am sure about the last one....

Well done you seasoned driver like I am. I had 3x IS250 and bunch of other similar cars in quite short time span so was able to get good sense for all the differences.

As I have said before, I have tried with OBD2+GPS and it came back as 7.6s 0-62mph. That is in line with what other are reporting with Racelogic and similar kits. Similarly my comment above is in line what people are reporting in terms of IS200t acceleration (that is 0-60 in 7.0s) again... using Racelogic and similar.

What I can say about IS200t experience, I have not timed it, but it felt slow and sounded trashy... that is it.

I must have been wrong then

[noby76]

20 minutes ago, talaipwros said:

better value for money I am afraid

in terms of what?

[talaipwros]

Just now, noby76 said:

in terms of what?

better specification in larger vehicles with more powerful engines for the - real, not the RRP - money.

[peachy]

1 hour ago, paulrnx said:

Believe an IS200t is about 145MPH flat out and 0-60 in 7s. Hardly a snail in my book. Quite a bit quicker than your IS250 too

Yeah but a snail for a modern 2 litre turbo. Infact I can't think of a slower 4 pot turbo.

To say it's quite a bit quicker than my 250 is total garbage. I've drove both and it's slightly quicker. 

[noby76]

better specification in larger vehicles with more powerful engines for the - real, not the RRP - money.

give us an example

[paulrnx]

1 minute ago, peachy said:

Yeah but a snail for a modern 2 litre turbo. Infact I can't think of a slower 4 pot turbo.

To say it's quite a bit quicker than my 250 is total garbage. I've drove both and it's slightly quicker. 

You must have one of those special IS250 cars than do low 7s to 60. That would figure. Linas.P has one too

[talaipwros]

6 minutes ago, noby76 said:

better specification in larger vehicles with more powerful engines for the - real, not the RRP - money.

give us an example

bmw 7series vs GS450h on PCP after carwowing