Recommended Posts

Wow what examples of cars getting knackered after a Battery disconnection due to a spike when Battery replacement connected.

To me that smacks of a totally different problem. A properly working group Battery won't spike but a cheapo one may.

Yes I suppose a trickle charger is a good friend to some. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Hello.

Could someone with a practical knowledge of  CTEK intelligent chargers please tell me whether they can be connected directly to the 12v auxiliary Battery in the boot of my IS300h  preferably with the 'eyelet' connectors and if so must the Battery be completely disconnected from  the vehicle or just its Negative lead when  charging.

I have recently experienced starting problems usually after a cold spell and worryingly after only as few as 5 days lack of using the vehicle.

The car is fine when it eventually starts and I think regular trickle charging may be the answer as my monthly mileage is fairly low at present.

I am aware that the car can be jump started from the connector in the engine compartment but the Owners Manual states that the 12v Battery in the boot can be charged but has to have its ground lead disconnected before charging.

The CTEK's handy eyelet connector would seem to do away with the need for constantly disconnecting then reconnecting to the Battery.

I would be grateful for some advice from CTEK users. Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never disconnected batteries when using CTEK as they advise this is not necessary and never had an issue

https://smartercharger.com/faq/#application8

Previous LRs/RRs CTEK was connected to Tow Electric socket but now using comfort connector attached to Battery in boot via eyelets

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you, Paul, for you swift response.

I take it you have not had any problems with your Lexus dealership during service if they've seen the eyelet connectors connected to the Battery and you've experienced no other electrical problems as a result of having done so?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The quiescent current is around 15mA so a 55 amp hour Battery should last 3600 hours or 150 days. Dont leave the key fob in or near the car as this will keep the electronics alive.  imho if your Battery was flat after a 3 week holiday then it is either faulty or was not fully charged.

Ed:yawn:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shane - I've not had chance to visit dealer regarding Battery issue but can't see connector being a problem - LR are in fact now selling CTEKs as accessories (IMHO because of Battery issues) - if I didn't use one the Auto Stop/Start wouldn't work on my Disco Sport because it always registered low battery 

Lexus Assist/AA advised me to use my CTEK as I wasn't using the RC regularly so that's good enough for me

Edwardo - I disable the key fob for security when I park mine so no chance it's keeping the electrics alive - modern luxury vehicles don't like standing unused or short trips in my experience and reading countless posts on LR/RR forums - I'd hoped the Lexus would be different but no such luck

So I can argue with the dealer that it shouldn't fail to start when I return but the CTEK is easier for me at the moment and I already had it because of the same problem on previous vehicles being a low mileage user

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a quick comment - I notice that Paul mentions that short journeys don't like to be left standing, or short trips, according to the Landrover /Rangerover forums. I agree that this is a very good point, but only as far as diesels are concerned. Diesels take a lot more whack when starting, and after that short journeys will clog up the DPF.

As far as I am aware, having made a lot of inquiries, these issues don't concern petrol engines.The Battery will probably go flat after a couple of weeks because the car alarm system will have a constant draw, but the short trip issue is more or less irrelevant unless one keeps doing trips of perhaps 2 miles a day, for weeks on end.

I had a Merc E220 cdi and that drove me nuts until I was able to get rid of it. It had two batteries, one under the bonnet and one in the boot. As I am now retired I tend to do short journeys most of the time. But every fortnight or so I would have to take the car out on the motorway and drive the car at around 50-60 mph for an hour or so, to clear the DPF because to ignore it meant that the car would keep going into limp home mode. 

At least with a petrol IS 300h I don't have to worry about these problems now.

Parkman.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, capese21 said:

The quiescent current is around 15mA so a 55 amp hour Battery should last 3600 hours or 150 days. Dont leave the key fob in or near the car as this will keep the electronics alive.  imho if your Battery was flat after a 3 week holiday then it is either faulty or was not fully charged.

Ed:yawn:

The IS has a 48 Ah Battery and the current draw is more than 15mA with the alarm and keyless entry enabled. A Battery three years or older would have lost some of its capacity too. The OP left his vehicle for 6 weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've read lots about problems with dpf although never suffered this personally 

Low batteries have been my issue on diesels and now petrol RC 300h without ctek 

My Battery was 4 months old when it happened 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

The IS has a 48 Ah Battery and the current draw is more than 15mA with the alarm and keyless entry enabled.

I measured it and it was 15mA once everything had shut down which took 15 mins iirc.

Ed:winkiss:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Muddywheels said:

I've read lots about problems with dpf although never suffered this personally 

Low batteries have been my issue on diesels and now petrol RC 300h without ctek 

My Battery was 4 months old when it happened 

The DPF issue is a real pain in the a**e, and it is something that dealers don't mention at all. I had a friend who was an ex-jaguar mechanic, who worked for himself, and he had a Jaguar XJ 2.7 TDVI in for repair, and even though it was only 4 years old it needed a new motor. It seems that the DPF system kept dumping raw diesel into the engine each time it started, and this diesel leaked down past the piston rings into the sump and mixed with the oil. As the self cleaning system meant that this diesel was dumped each time it ended up that there was a lot of thin oil in the sump, as well as having too much fluid in the sump.

The engine eventually blew up because the bores in the block were no longer lubricated and because there was about 30% more oil/diesel in the sump than there should have been. All of this was caused because the car was not driven for a fairly long journey every week. The idea is that the engine has to be run above a certain temperature to ensure that the excess fuel is burned off, and that then means that the emissions are down to a satisfactory level. The problem is when you don't do the long journey the excess fuel is not burned off and runs into the sump.

About two years ago it seems that it was almost impossible to pick up a second hand 2.7 Jag diesel engine as they had all been either used or gone bang. My friend told me that the XJ 2.7 in question was for sale, and the seller would accept £5000 for the car, four years old with 35,000 miles on the clock. You couldn't give them away at one point.

I don't think it matters what you do with new cars when you leave them parked up - the Battery will go flat because the alarm is armed all the time, and although the drain is small the Battery will eventually go flat. Unless you have a means of actually disconnecting the alarm your Battery will go flat - end of story. I have a classic Merc and I can lock the car with either the central locking, which turns on the alarm, or use the key which just locks the doors. If I use the central locking the Battery will be flat in about ten days, because the alarm is on.

If I lock the car with the key the Battery will last about four weeks without a problem.

Parkman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My other car a pretty new BMW with the latest diesel engine has no such problems with the DPF. If I have done a few short journeys it does an auto regen which makes the exhaust note  a little deeper for around 20 mins other than that not noticeable.  The 2.7 Jag is an older design pre Euro 6.

Diesel technology has moved on since 2003 when Ford announced the 2.7.

You are correct in that a unused car will eventually go flat. More likely in a Lexus hybrid with a small 12 Battery although my GS quiescent current was 15mA so should last several months assuming the Battery is fully charged.   My BMW which has a huge 12v Battery in comparison, 95Ah should be able to supply the 45Ma current for 20 months.  Maths isnt my strong point so may have got a decimal point wrong although a collegue parked his car up while posted overseas and on his return 6 months later it started first click.

45mA = .045A   so 95Ah is 87 days before flat so even allowing for only 50% should be good for 10 months.   The GS  assuming half size Battery then 5 months. I measured the GS & the quiescent current was 15mA so well you do the maths.

 

Ed:wink3:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Edwardo, I agree with your comment regarding older cars. I keep a 1991 Merc 260E at Manchester airport, parked for several months at a time. It is just locked with a key, as it is in a locked warehouse the alarm is not on, and it will stay charged probably for between three and six months. It is a big Battery, as well, and is only about 9 or 10 months old.

Parkman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, parkman said:

I agree with your comment regarding older cars

Neither of my cars are old both less than 3 years. :winkiss:   All the figures are if the Battery is fully charged to begin with though.

Ed:wink3:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, capese21 said:

45mA = .045A   so 95Ah is 87 days before flat so even allowing for only 50% should be good for 10 months.   The GS  assuming half size Battery then 5 months. I measured the GS & the quiescent current was 15mA so well you do the maths.

50% of 87 days = 10 months?

There are a few other factors in play that make the calculation a little more complicated. 20% of the capacity isn't usable, once a Battery get to that state of discharge it is being damaged and, whilst it can probably supply enough current for the standby load, there won't be enough to operate the doors/ignition etc. Compared to other types of batteries lead-acid have quite a low self-discharge rate but it will still be around 1 to 2% per week. Dirt and moisture on top of the Battery will increase the discharge rate. Cold weather will reduce the effective capacity of the Battery. This all adds up to the fact that the Battery won't last as long as you might think.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a very good point to be made here. As Colin rightly points out, cold weather is a killer for a standard lead acid Battery. I used to drive artics on the continent, refrigerated trailers, and the biggest problem that we faced in the winter was not being able to start the fridges. A big part of the problem was down to cold batteries as they wouldn't have the "ooomph" to keep turning over the diesel engine that ran the refrigeration system.

Also, leaving the Battery with a very low level of charge generally means that you might as well just buy a new one, as the Battery will very rarely return to a good, steady charge.

If anyone has ever done it, you will find that even taking the Battery out of the car and storing it in the garage for a couple of months, the Battery will discharge and will not start the car. If I am correct you will find that a lot of motor factors won't keep fully charged batteries on the shelf all the time. I have a recollection of buying a Battery for an old Jag, and the motor factor guy asked me to return the following day as the Battery had to be charge.

Interestingly, Mercedes use gel filled batteries rather than lead acid, but the charge storage doesn't seem to much different. I had one in an E220 cdi and even though it was new, about three years ago, after 18 months it would still go flat after about 10 days.

Parkman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comparing a modern Lexus that only needs 12v to power the electronics to a old refrigerated diesel lorry interesting but hardly relevant.  The Lexus Battery is an AGM type so performs well in low temperatures & has low self discharge & can charge at a far higher rate.

The Lexus system can output 40A to charge it when required.

It isn't just a standard lead acid as found in a lorry. Probably why is costs £250. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My point was that standard lead acid batteries do not perform particularly well in cold conditions, as they lose the necessary motive power to turn a motor of any description. A warm lead acid Battery performs much, much better in warm conditions. That's all.

Parkman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 28 February 2018 at 4:15 PM, parkman said:

The DPF issue is a real pain in the a**e, and it is something that dealers don't mention at all. I had a friend who was an ex-jaguar mechanic, who worked for himself, and he had a Jaguar XJ 2.7 TDVI in for repair, and even though it was only 4 years old it needed a new motor. It seems that the DPF system kept dumping raw diesel into the engine each time it started, and this diesel leaked down past the piston rings into the sump and mixed with the oil. As the self cleaning system meant that this diesel was dumped each time it ended up that there was a lot of thin oil in the sump, as well as having too much fluid in the sump.

I can see why he is an ex-Jaguar mechanic, either that or has been badly mis-quoted.

Look at where a DPF is located in the car and please explain to me how a DPF manages to dump raw diesel into the engine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The DPF mode overfuels to allow the filter to heat up to burn off the soot. If the engine is stopped before the cycle has completed the excess fuel ends up in the sump. Jag forums have examples about it. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, capese21 said:

The DPF mode 

So as I thought, a mis-quote. 

Big difference between the DPF itself and a DPF mode. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to Edwardo, for the clarification, and confirmation.

Parkman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Marvelous !

Many thanks to Paul (Muddywheels) and to all you other contributors.

I ordered the CTEK MXS 5.0 from amazon on Thursday and it arrived today Saturday.

I scrounged a couple of 10mm nuts from my neighbour and connected up the 'eyelet' connector to the 12v Battery in the boot easily in a couple of minutes and then to the charger on Car/AGM cycle.

It was up to stage 4 in an hour, stage 6 in two hours and then stage 7 (Battery fully charged) after three hours.

The car started without a problem after, ofcourse,  disconnecting the charger.

The little comfort connector plug now just peeps out from the bottom of the panel in the boot should I require it again.

Whilst it was disconcerting to hear from so many contributors that they too had experienced low Battery problems with relatively new vehicles left unused for relatively short periods(amazing to me who hadn't needed to charge a car Battery in more than 30 years) I have learnt a lot from your shared experiences.

Thank you all very much for your help and here's to many more years of trouble free motoring.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Mr M said:

Marvelous !

Many thanks to Paul (Muddywheels) and to all you other contributors.

I ordered the CTEK MXS 5.0 from amazon on Thursday and it arrived today Saturday.

I scrounged a couple of 10mm nuts from my neighbour and connected up the 'eyelet' connector to the 12v Battery in the boot easily in a couple of minutes and then to the charger on Car/AGM cycle.

It was up to stage 4 in an hour, stage 6 in two hours and then stage 7 (Battery fully charged) after three hours.

The car started without a problem after, ofcourse,  disconnecting the charger.

The little comfort connector plug now just peeps out from the bottom of the panel in the boot should I require it again.

Whilst it was disconcerting to hear from so many contributors that they too had experienced low Battery problems with relatively new vehicles left unused for relatively short periods(amazing to me who hadn't needed to charge a car Battery in more than 30 years) I have learnt a lot from your shared experiences.

Thank you all very much for your help and here's to many more years of trouble free motoring.

I have the same, they are great chargers! The eyelet connector it comes with shouldn't require you to use any other bolts other than what's on the positive and negative terminals already though. How have you connected it?

I ended up purchasing one of these (the enclosed one was fitted to another vehicle). It has a Battery indicator level on it and is also fused in case any surges hit it. Unlikely I know. Shame, price has nearly doubled in less than a month since I purchased. Some reviews say inaccurate, but I was most interested in the fuse. Plus, the one with the indicator was cheaper than the one without one!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B002MT8S7E

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Matt, 

I simply connected the eyelets on to the protruding ends of the tightening bolts already fitted to the Battery so that I could connect or disconnect at will without loosening the fitments on the Battery.

I was looking at those comfort indicator connections but as the charger already came with a set of eyelet connectors I didn't bother. I might later buy a set as my wife's car Battery had to be replaced this week too.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now