Hydrogen fuel rollout.

[Las Palmas]

 

[flotsam]

4 hours ago, Malc1 said:

hahahahahhahahah   ............ Reality Gives methinks  !

great hype tho' for the hypertension methodology ..  reminding me of the Ruskie Hypersupersonic indestructible mach 10 ? missile that's invincible  .........  BUT one's just been shot down by Zelensky and co OK ..........  🖕

 

as I say  reality " Gives " .....  let's stick with Toyota's Mirai style relatively simple and straightforward and readily achievable sensible cars for the masses .............  well maybe me anyway if i live that long 🤣  .............  and I can rebadge the " sedan " to a Lexus Ls700

Malc

But who's telling the truth?

[flotsam]

34 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

 

Disappointing.

As well as HFC engines it also has hydrogen ICE cars. I want cars powered by electric motors where you get HUGE torque, only one gear and NEGLIGIBLE maintenance.

[Malc1]

1 hour ago, flotsam said:

But who's telling the truth?

The Ruskies and Wagner of course ............... 🤣🤣🤣 

Malc

[Malc1]

1 hour ago, flotsam said:

As well as HFC engines it also has hydrogen ICE cars. I want cars powered by electric motors where you get HUGE torque, only one gear and NEGLIGIBLE maintenance.

For negligible maintenance then you want to revert to the old fashioned and non-hypersensitive V8 of the Ls400 surely and big old Toyota 4 wd and All wd 😉  .  like they might in the rest of the " real world " outside of us cocooned in the EU and USofA  .  and the UK of course 😇

Malc

[Las Palmas]

2 hours ago, flotsam said:

Disappointing.

As well as HFC engines it also has hydrogen ICE cars. I want cars powered by electric motors where you get HUGE torque, only one gear and NEGLIGIBLE maintenance.

HUGE torque = fast from 0 to no longer having a drivers licence.

[flotsam]

52 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

For negligible maintenance then you want to revert to the old fashioned and non-hypersensitive V8 of the Ls400 surely and big old Toyota 4 wd and All wd 😉  .  like they might in the rest of the " real world " outside of us cocooned in the EU and USofA  .  and the UK of course 😇

Malc

You're joking!

Cam belt changes, oil changes, transmission oil changes, spark plugs, de-coking, etc. And ample opportunity for the clowns supervised by monkeys to trash your car.

 

[Malc1]

5 minutes ago, flotsam said:

Cam belt changes, oil changes, transmission oil changes, spark plugs, de-coking, etc

methinks every 10 years or 100k miles is somewhat negligible  imho   😇  .  and all that expensive suspension stuff about every 150k miles too

let's just wait to see what a 10 y/o / 100k miles EV looks like for maintenance costs at that time .......  if I'm still around to find out  🤣

Malc

 

 

 

[dutchie01]

Gang might be able to tell you but if it helps a friend of mine drives a Tesla model S since 2015. He was one of the first and got it because of big tax breaks if he would set it at his company. No road tax. Those cars had supercharging for life as well so free electricity. He is now at 275k km and no regular service needed. Things he replaced are tyres, 2 shocks, wishbones, wipers. So for cheap motoring only biking will beat it..

[Malc1]

14 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Those cars had supercharging for life as well so free electricity.

the free electricity sounds wonderful, can he re-direct this free stuff to use in his home generally too .  now, that would be very very good

Malc

[Las Palmas]

 

Hydrogen Fuel Cell Trucks and Buses Are Here for The Long Haul, Here’s Why

By JAKE MARTIN                    https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/author/jakemartin2233/

 

The transportation industry is one of the major contributors to greenhouse gas emissions, and diesel-powered vehicles have long been the primary mode of transportation for long haul trucking. However, with the introduction of hydrogen fuel cell technology, the industry has seen a significant shift towards cleaner and greener alternatives. Hydrogen fuel cell trucks have emerged as a viable option for many long haul trucking fleets who are looking to reduce their carbon footprint.

Biagi Bros Transportation Shares Experience with Hydrogen Fuel Cell Trucks at the ACT Expo in California

A portion of the Biagi Bros operation is delivering beverages, 24/7 to meet the significant demand for one of their biggest customers, Anheuser Busch Brewing company. Greg Stumbaugh, Corporate Equipment Director at Biagi Bros Inc, spoke about their use of hydrogen fuel cell trucks, emphasizing that they run these trucks non-stop, 24/7. Given the continuous usage, Stumbaugh shared that electric trucks were not a feasible option due to their range limitations and long charging times. In his words, “We run those trucks 24/7, it’s literally non-stop. So for us, electric is just not an option”. Stumbaugh concluded that using electric trucks would require more trucks for the same job, resulting in significantly higher costs.

Biagi Bros is running the fuel cell trucks from Nikola, and these trucks make a 134-mile round trip, covering 110,000 miles per year, non-stop. The advantage of hydrogen fuel cells is that they can be refueled in a matter of minutes, just like traditional diesel trucks, rather than taking hours to recharge like electric trucks. This means that the fuel cell trucks can operate around the clock with no downtime, ensuring maximum productivity and profitability.

It’s been said before just not as loud! Here Volvo also makes the point of Long Haul use and hydrogen.

Many Fleet Owners are Considering These Points When Looking at EV vs FCEV:

• Firstly, these trucks are significantly lighter, allowing them to carry more payload without increasing the weight of the vehicle.
• Secondly, hydrogen trucks can operate in severe weather conditions, including freezing or hot temperatures.
• The charging time and infrastructure required to support a fleet of electric trucks can be a major hurdle during peak hours or periods with brown-out restrictions.
• Electric trucks can take hours to recharge, resulting in significant downtime and lost productivity.
• Hydrogen fuel cell trucks, on the other hand, can be refueled in minutes, ensuring maximum productivity and profitability.

➡️PLAY THIS HYDROGEN NEWS ARTICLE

Fuel Cell Buses: The Future of Public Transit

The transportation industry is constantly evolving, and with the need to reduce carbon emissions, alternative fuel vehicles are becoming increasingly important. Fuel cell technology, which uses hydrogen to generate electricity, is one such alternative. Fuel cell buses have emerged as a viable option for public transport fleets, and many cities around the world have adopted these vehicles. One such city is Foothill Transit in California, where they have been testing fuel cell buses for some time now.

Roland M. Cordero, Director of Maintenance and Vehicle Technology at Foothill Transit, spoken at the ACT event this year, sharing his experience with fuel cell buses – They currently have 33 FCEB’s and 19 BEB’s. He stated that the cost of fuel cell buses has been a factor, but with funding from the government in California, it has become more feasible. One fuel cell bus costs an estimated $1.2 million dollars each, but with funding of $400,000, it becomes a lot more affordable.

He summarized some of their 13-year experience with the challenges of BEBs in these bullet points:

• Limited Range
• Demanding Charging requirements
• Operational Impacts
• High cost of in-route chargers
• High cost of technology parts

In California, the timeline follows this: 25% of buses purchased must be zero-emissions buses by the end of this year, 50% by the end of 2026, and by 2029, 100%.

According to Cordero, the fuel cell buses have been reliable and are performing well. He is confident that they will work better than Battery electric buses. Foothill Transit has been testing these vehicles and has seen a significant reduction in emissions. Fuel cell buses emit only water vapor, making them environmentally friendly and perfect for public transport.

 

The Future of Hydrogen Fuel Cell Technology in Transportation

Hydrogen fuel cell technology is rapidly gaining traction as a potential solution to the transportation industry’s carbon emission problem. However, it is still a relatively new and evolving technology with both advantages and disadvantages when compared to electric vehicles.

While hydrogen fuel cell trucks are lighter, more efficient, and can operate in severe weather conditions, the cost of production and transportation of hydrogen fuel remains a significant hurdle. Refueling infrastructure is also limited, which can be a challenge for companies operating in remote areas, but mobile refueling is a growing sector that is helping relieve this challenge now.

Electric vehicles, on the other hand, have become more popular for shorter distances due to their lower upfront cost and widespread charging infrastructure. However, the need for frequent charging and the lower range may be limiting for long-haul trucking and high-use applications.

In Conclusion, listening to industry experts and companies that have experience using hydrogen fuel cell trucks, such as Biagi Bros and Foothill Transit, it is evident that hydrogen fuel cell technology is highly suitable for long-haul and high-use applications due to their lighter weight, less downtime and mobile refueling. While the cost of hydrogen fuel remains a challenge, ongoing investments and advancements in technology and infrastructure are expected to bring costs down and make it more affordable and accessible for more fleet owners.

 

 

 

 

[ganzoom]

On 5/7/2023 at 5:15 PM, Malc1 said:

methinks every 10 years or 100k miles is somewhat negligible  imho   😇  .  and all that expensive suspension stuff about every 150k miles too

let's just wait to see what a 10 y/o / 100k miles EV looks like for maintenance costs at that time .......  if I'm still around to find out  🤣

Malc

 

 

 

I can tell you in 2027, so 3 years away, though we'll probably hit 100k miles in the Tesla by 2026.

Currently maintance costs = 1 12V Battery, 1 set of front brakes, 1 aircon regas, and tires every 20-25k.

[ganzoom]

Whilst we all wait for the fantasy that is BP hydrogen refueling stations to reach the real world of adults, just the number of DC EV rapid chargers in the UK built by one company is multiplying like rabbits.

I look fowards to seeing hydrogen fuel stations reach similar numbers, end of this year or next? What's peoples bets on here? 🙂

[Malc1]

13 hours ago, ganzoom said:

I look fowards to seeing hydrogen fuel stations reach similar numbers

Why is that then Gang  .  why do you look forward to seeing them ?  are you going to buy yourself a newfandangled hydrogen powered car ?

Malc

[ganzoom]

2 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Why is that then Gang  .  why do you look forward to seeing them ?  are you going to buy yourself a newfandangled hydrogen powered car ?

Malc

Why wouldn't I? I've had an EV since 2015, my current phone folds in half, I've just managed to move my entire work flow to 'cloud' storage, and the builders have just finished foundations to our house where we are installing 4.5 meter high glazing with Alum smart wall support.....I like to try new things, something they work sometimes not, but you never know till you try.

But hydrogen fuel cars, you cannot even buy let alone refuel one. If you can find me one of these 1000+ hydrogen fuel stations you keep on talking about I suspect I'll probably at least try one before some on here who just like to talk but take no action :).

[Malc1]

3 hours ago, ganzoom said:

If you can find me one of these 1000+ hydrogen fuel stations you keep on talking about

On 4/9/2023 at 10:17 AM, Malc1 said:

Those observant enough to understand a little about the Hydrogen Power availability in the UK will already know that the BP hydrogen production facility going on in the North of England will provide a sensible roll-out to the 1200 + BP fuel stations in the UK ........... as a minimum

If there's a BP filling station anywhere close by to you it will enable you to buy and run a good hydrogen power'd Toyota .......  what else would you want  🤩

Gang, you're being terribly obtuse about all this .  a little befuddled methinks  ..  you're just not ( quite purposefully maybe ) reading the BP position in all this in the UK ........  BP is developing it's Hydrogen Power production and it has an existing forecourt estate of some 1200+ at which to pop a Hydrogen Pump into  ......  you're not quite understanding that there are indeed already  a very few Hydrogen Pumps, as yet in the UK and the Toyota Mirai can only be leased from Toyota, not bought ............. 

Hope you do manage to buy one when the time is right ..  and hopefully you'll be letting us know your thoughts ...........  even in extremis 🤣

Malc

 

 

 

[DavidCM]

36 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Gang, you're being terribly obtuse about all this .  a little befuddled methinks  

🤣

 

 

 

Malcolm,you are clearly wasting your time on this.Someone is clearly a sole practitioner in the priapic arts.

David

[Malc1]

I know …… saintly patience is a tenuous virtue ….. I do however, strangely maybe, quite enjoy following the BP financial and other markets stuff …… quite informative AND it’s British too 👍

Malc 

[ganzoom]

30 minutes ago, DavidCM said:

Malcolm,you are clearly wasting your time on this.Someone is clearly a sole practitioner in the priapic arts.

David

All I want to know is where these 1200 BP* hydrogen fuel stations are....Is that too much to ask? 

*I miss quoted the figure before as 1000, so 20% underestimate.

[flotsam]

On 5/11/2023 at 9:19 PM, ganzoom said:

Whilst we all wait for the fantasy that is BP hydrogen refueling stations to reach the real world of adults, just the number of DC EV rapid chargers in the UK built by one company is multiplying like rabbits.

I look fowards to seeing hydrogen fuel stations reach similar numbers, end of this year or next? What's peoples bets on here? 🙂

Actually, the hyperion youtube video I posted featured a mobile hydrogen filling station. As it's probably billionaires who might buy a hyperion, I'm surprised they haven't bought one of these along with the filling station. As well as having a 1,000m/1,600km range, that largely solves the scarcity of hydrogen filling stations problem.

[Malc1]

16 hours ago, ganzoom said:

All I want to know is where these 1200 BP* hydrogen fuel stations are....Is that too much to ask? 

Gang, when you get permission from your daughter ( is it ) to use her secret access code to her computer then you can look up where all the BP forecourts are and understand that is likely to be the locations where you will be able to refuel with Hydrogen when the pumps are installed ..............  also there are the existing Hydrogen refuelling points where the local police forces refuel, where they have the Toyota Mirai Hydrogen cars 

Gang, why don't you ask the Police where they refuel maybe .  then you'll maybe believe them 🙄......  and then continue your rigorous questioning with them ...  they might appreciate your attention to their needs  😅

Malc

[ganzoom]

20 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Gang, when you get permission from your daughter ( is it ) to use her secret access code to her computer then you can look up where all the BP forecourts are and understand that is likely to be the locations where you will be able to refuel with Hydrogen when the pumps are installed ..............  also there are the existing Hydrogen refuelling points where the local police forces refuel, where they have the Toyota Mirai Hydrogen cars 

Gang, why don't you ask the Police where they refuel maybe .  then you'll maybe believe them 🙄......  and then continue your rigorous questioning with them ...  they might appreciate your attention to their needs  😅

Malc

So Still no answer to my very simple question of where these 1200 BP hydrogen fuel stations are?

At this point I have to assume you are talking about fantasy versus reality? 

[Las Palmas]

18 hours ago, Malc1 said:

I know …… saintly patience is a tenuous virtue ….. I do however, strangely maybe, quite enjoy following the BP financial and other markets stuff …… quite informative AND it’s British too 👍

Malc 

 

You have saintly patience, so do not worry. Seems though, that Canada, China, EU and US (especially California) are investing very much more in H2 than UK, so you’ll probably need to wait a few years before driving the 700 on hydrogen. Funny enough as UK is having water all around the island that can be made into hydrogen along the coasts and the very steady tide can deliver power enough to make the hydrogen really green, while other places tide and water are not that abundant.

A few years may also be the time needed to find out how to make the combustion machine completely pollution-free, so you can have the rumble from a big engine instead of a noiseless fuel-cell delivering power to electric 4 x 4 drivetrain.

Though I also like the noise from a well-tuned machine, I think that a fuel-cell car will be good enough for our use.

[Bluemarlin]

1 hour ago, ganzoom said:

So Still no answer to my very simple question of where these 1200 BP hydrogen fuel stations are?

At this point I have to assume you are talking about fantasy versus reality? 

I'll try a very simple answer then.

There aren't 1200 BP hydrogen filling stations, and I don't believe anyone has claimed that. Currently there are a dozen or so hydrogen filling stations, as per the map earlier. What is being claimed is that BP currently have 1200 filling stations where they can add the ability to refill with hydrogen.

How many there are now is immaterial, as was the number of electric charging points in 2005. If hydrogen becomes widely adopted for passenger cars, then BP, along with other fuel providers, will provide the necessary capability at their filling stations, in the same way that electricity charging points have been provided to cater for the adoption of electric cars.

It is no more a fantasy than that claimed by EV supporters regarding electric charging points before there was widescale adoption, and is instead simply an understanding of how such markets work.

In short, if hydrogen powered passenger vehicles are developed and adopted by consumers, then sufficient filling stations will be provided by the fuel suppliers. If not, then they won't.

[ganzoom]

So 1200 hydrogen fuel stations is currently fantasy...just want to make sure I really understand :).