Cameras On The M4

[Jiberjaber]

The thing is, with respect, you probably haven't been there and done that... do you actualy realise how close .5 second headway is on a car... it it closer than them appearing on you bumper in the rear view thats for sure! 

With respect, you DEFINITELY don't know where I've been and what I've done. I tell you I've been there. YES bumpers just about touching at 100mph. And yes I don't need a calculator to tell you how far 0.5s at 100mph is. However it's a LOT further than a caravan attached to a tow bar.

100mph = 160.9km/h = 44.69m/s or 22.35m in half a second.

When it comes down to it. We all have about the same level of judgement and most of us have been there and done that. There was a hump-backed bridge in Stoke-on-Trent where everyone had clipped wing mirrors with cars coming the other way because it was so narrow for example.

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Or that I've sat on numourous motorways throughout the UK evaluating equipment that measures the gap between drivers. Remember things always look biger in the rear view mirror ;) :)

[Fidgits]

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Somethings got to change.They will be looking back at this in 50 years time thinking,how soft we have all become putting up with all this *****!!

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this is Just the point In Britian, everyone moans and whinges, but does bugger all about it..............Less Talking.More action.

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But were British...

Our way, whether its bad service or goverment policy, is to accept it... then go off grumbling and complaining to ourselves/each other...

mind you.... you have to say, they have stopped accidents on the M4... oh wait, no, there has been 2 since they came into force on Friday.... oh, and wait a minute, thats an increase in the rate of accidents not a reduction!

[Fidgits]

mind you, which ever way the statistics go, the goverment will manipulate them...

If accidents increase, it justifies why the cameras need to be there

if they decrease, its because the cameras are there..

[Fargo]

you knwo what.. i drove to devon and back saturday just gone,,, i went on the M4 from Heathrow all the way to Bristol and did nto see ONE single speed camera...

[Fidgits]

the cameras are in 'safety vans' on the bridges Paul... they are not fixed Gatso's (or specs)

and having to drive the stretch they talk about frequently, i can tell you for a fact, speeding is not the main cause of accidents on that stretch.

It is a combination of bad drivers and bad weather - people driving too fast and too close in bad weather - when it rains spray really reduces visibility.

[Fargo]

ahh cool theni was lucky...

yeh i agree its not speed that kills,, its the MISTAKEs people make.

[flotsam]

Or that I've sat on numourous motorways throughout the UK evaluating equipment that measures the gap between drivers.  Remember things always look biger in the rear view mirror ;) :)

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When did you catch me doing 100mph and tailgating someone else? How did you get my number plate? When did I mention rear view mirrors? I'm talking front windscreen!

Honest! I've been there done that and so have most people! Closer than you'd park in a car park. It's no big deal 'cos it's the relative speed which is just about zero.

[dazzab69]

the cameras are in 'safety vans' on the bridges Paul... they are not fixed Gatso's (or specs)

and having to drive the stretch they talk about frequently, i can tell you for a fact, speeding is not the main cause of accidents on that stretch.

It is a combination of bad drivers and bad weather - people driving too fast and too close in bad weather - when it rains spray really reduces visibility.

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Aahha now we reach the crux of this issue. Our lovely non-car owning friends from Islington cheat with the accident figures, because like Iraq's WMD, they are sure that they know that speed is the cause of the accidents and as has been said they hate cars. Thus all sorts of accidents that are caused by other issues are lumped together in the speed catagory. I don't recall the exact figures, but I seem to remember that travelling too fast alone was the cause of about 15% of accidents and by far the biggest problem was driving without due care and attention.

[javadude]

Speed is one factor in 30% of accidents. Which means that things like poor driving are a factor in the other 70% and possibly some of the 30%. And how exactly do speed cameras detect poor driving? Surely if money was spent on traffic police instead of speed cameras far more accidents would be prevented.

[Fidgits]

The biggest problem is though....

Now the cameras are there - if the number of accidents increase, they can just say it justifies the need for the cameras

and if they go down, then the cameras are effective and should stay..

Did you hear about the scamera, sorry, camera in Somerset in its first 2 months netted £750,000 in fines..

[Rillo]

saw some stats about Wiltshire Traffic Camera Partnership today in Autocar .....

Formed in 2002 - number of fatalities on Wiltshire Roads 43

2004 - profit from cameras £1.1 million - number of fatalities 61

make your own mind up......

[Matthew_McNally]

hardly surprising - there is precious little real evidence of the effectiveness of speed cameras.

personally - I think they are at best useless (at anything other than generating fines) and at worst - outright dangerous.

How does causing drivers to spend more of their time looking at their speedometers than they spend watching the road make things safer?

Yes - a child stands a better chance of survival being hit at 30mph than 40mph.

But then again - if the driver was actually concentrating on the road and not his speedo - then he may not actually hit the child at all.

I am not a fan of speeding, nor do I condone it in any way.

But speed cameras are not the solution

[Scorpion]

Speed limiters are the way forward or a chip that can tell what limit you should be doing on any given rd,that'll sort out any disputes.

There sorted!!!

I should be transport minister. :D

[Matthew_McNally]

Speed limiters are the way forward or a chip that can tell what limit you should be doing on any given rd.

There sorted!!!

I should be transport minister. :D

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speed limiters are not an answer either Pete

we need drivers to have MORE control over their vehicles - not less.

A better answer is make it harder to get on the road, and harder to stay on the road, including compulsory retests every n years.

Get the bad drivers off the road, and keep them off

[Scorpion]

harder to stay on the road, including compulsory retests every n years.

Get the bad drivers off the road, and keep them off

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I've been a advocate of retests for years,this action alone will greatly decrease traffic in one swoop then i think those over 60 should give up their license and the new license holders when they pass cannot drive without a proven driver who has held a license for 10 yrs or over for 2 yrs

[Scorpion]

Or each car owner will be given a red or green pass that will only allow you on the rd on certain days,and if your a multiple car family owner you get the same colour so you cant dodge it.

I know it doesn't help people control the car but it will decrease the traffic problem significantly

[Matthew_McNally]

I've been a advocate of retests for years,this action alone will greatly decrease traffic in one swoop then i think those over 60 should give up their license and the new license holders when they pass cannot drive without a proven driver who has held a license for 10 yrs or over for 2 yrs

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not too sure of the over 60 rule.

those older drivers, who drive badly would be culled by the retests.

I would seriously consider raising the age limit for driving though - to maybe 25.

this would remove a hell of a lot of boy racers, and inexperienced drivers.

True - it would mean we had more 25 / 26 year old inexperienced drivers - but these people are (by and large) more mature than a 17 year old.

[jaylist]

Speed limiters are the way forward or a chip that can tell what limit you should be doing on any given rd,that'll sort out any disputes.

There sorted!!!

I should be transport minister. :D

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The eu is going to implement gps based trackin into every single car in the union. And one of the things this can measure.... average speed!!

Big Brother is watching you.

[dazzab69]

Speed limiters are the way forward or a chip that can tell what limit you should be doing on any given rd,that'll sort out any disputes.

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C-Class Merc cruise control already does this, you can set a max speed. I only know because I was err test driving one for a friend....

[Fidgits]

There is a protest to these cameras planned..

There's going to be a protest about the M4's new speed cameras in Wiltshire.

It is planned that a protest convoy will leave Membury services M4 westbound at 10:00 on Saturday 30 April, and drive slowly along the motorway to junction 17 (the other side of Wiltshire). Another convoy may leave Leigh Delamere services eastbound at the same time.

This is the weekend before the general election, so is your chance to pay back the government for all the anti-car nonsense they have enforced on us over the last 8 years.

The media are bound to be there in force, and are likely to video the gathering at the services beforehand, so print some of our speed camera signs from the ABD website and display them in your car, make them into banners, make up your own banners.

When in the convoy, put your lights on and wave at any TV crews you see, make it clear to the powers that be that drivers are not going to tolerate speed cameras on motorways.

If you don't want to join the convoy itself, there are over a dozen bridges over the M4 betweens junctions 14 and 17 where you could show your support with banners and flags.

The organiser, M4 Protest, said it hoped this action will show the driving public's dissatisfaction with speed cameras in the run up to the general election, and show that safe driving is too complex to be measured simply in miles per hour.

Campaign founder, Robin Summerhill said, "After £700 million pounds of speed camera fines, road deaths are going up, yet the greedy camera partnerships simply keep expanding, placing more and more cameras. The motoring public is at breaking point and something has to give.  I believe it is important that the entire ethos of speed cameras in the UK is re-examined from the very foundations."

Robin said, " We've been running for less than 24 hours and already the response is amazing.  I hope drivers and riders will turn out in big numbers on the day.  Speed cameras are an issue that affects road users everywhere. Let's hope that the politicians get the message - we're not going to stand for it any more."

[Scorpion]

Sorry Ian but that isnt going to make them take the cameras down,dont you remember the fuel protest in Park Lane with the Haulage assoc,it just caused havoc for a few hours then it all went back to normal then the fuel went up!!!

The only way to get at them is to travel at the speed limits this way they wont colect any revenue......i dont think there is an answer to this topic?

[Fidgits]

hey, i just posted it, nowt to do with me...

as far as im concerned, im avoiding the M4 that day...

as i said earlier, no matter what happens from now, they will manipulate the statistics to make the cameras stay..

[Scorpion]

Not having a go m8,i just dont think that whatever the motorist does they will not pull cameras down.They are here to stay im afraid.

I dont like it anymore than you but there is no answer to this

[Zee007]

I would seriously consider raising the age limit for driving though - to maybe 25.

this would remove a hell of a lot of boy racers, and inexperienced drivers.

True - it would mean we had more 25 / 26 year old inexperienced drivers - but these people are (by and large) more mature than a 17 year old.

I think this would just encourage more youngsters to break the law (in the same fashion as driving without insurance/MOT/tax etc)....

[Matthew_McNally]

I think this would just encourage more youngsters to break the law (in the same fashion as driving without insurance/MOT/tax etc)....

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that would be a risk mate.

but - why bother legislating for people who pay no heed?

people who ignore the law are in a minority, so this would reduce the number of immature drivers on the road.

plenty of young people do tax and insure their car, you need only read threads on places like TOC, where young lads are paying thousands to insure their yaris.