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:shutit: It would apear Lexus UK, are not really interested in "existing customer satisfaction" more in recrutment of NEW customers, I found when "joining the club" they bent over backwards, after the honeymoon things went down hill fast, in my area Lexus are fast becoming a poor seller many guys in sales are already gone to new jobs, only a couple of desperados are still there.

If the trend of ignoring customers concerns (as Mercs have done) carries on sales will drop further, someone in marketing needs to wake-up and start to pass on the message WE WANT GOOD SERVICE. ;)

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Lexus Guildford kind of contacted me but that was ultimately because I had phones them a few days previous to advise them that the fix was available when I had herad the news from Michael originally. They have now I believe done a 'few' upgrades including mine now. Mine still seems to be working much better than before If there is any slight jerkiness to the changes it really only seems to be when the box hasn't fully warmed up. Driving it yesterday I have to say that the changes were so smooth that with music playing I was completely unable to detect the changes with moderate pressue on the accelerator. My wife has driven it a few times but not perhaps as frequently as Michael's wife has driven their's and we have still onyl covered a few hundred miles. The low speed lurch around 8mph that happened before has not yet reared it's ugly head thankfully and the hesitation which almost caused a few accidents when pulling away from a roundabout has not yet occurred either. So from my side looks OK right now but as said in a previous post would prefer to wait a little longer.

One comment I would make though is that I am still not convinced about the learning of the box yet. I'd love to know what actual benefit this is meant to provide? Whilst so far I'm happy I would say that it doesn't seem 'as good' as it was immediately after the upgrade of the ECU. Originally it seemed always positive and almost more predictable in its behaviour, now whilst uit doesn't hesitate it's behaviour doesn't seem very logical.

br

D

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I have been biding my time waiting for Lexus Brighton to contact me.As ,of course, this did not happen I phoned last week.

They seemed to have only the vaguest notion of what I was talking about and suggested I phone LGB.I spoke to a lady there who treated me in the most off hand manner and seemed to object to the fact that I knew anything about a "fix" She said there was something on the website but it was for internal use only.

She suggested that if I had not complained to the dealer then nothing could be done. I said I had just done so before speaking to her!

I went back to Lexus Brighton who said they would undertake research and come back to me.They did not ,as always when I call and when I followed up they said they had to have more time but had spoken to other dealers who knew nothing about the problem. I am awating another call but I get the impression I should not hold my breath.

I did tell them to look at this site but I got the feeling that that would not be an option.

They should know very well about the problem...to be frank they are telling mistruths!

This is a commmon line that LGB and many the dealers take, its almost as if they hope we will all buy an XC90 or X5 etecetera and then just go away.

Our car has been changed, with a small additional payment because of the problem,

At LGB 's request I gathered a database of info for their use to contact all of those that reported the problem on this forum - they could not manage it themselves.

This has been sent to a Mr Hinshelwood in customer care (!) but he seems to have forgotten he has it as I know he is telling people that there is no problem and no fix that they, LGB, are aware of.

There is a fix - it is next to useless and has made our car far worse.

My advise is to tell your dealers to get of their backside and if they cannot get an answer from LGB then talk to Brussels (see our previous posts for contact and addresses)

Incidentally, the USA Forum seems to have a similar thread about 'weird' gearbox behaviour.

LGB also told me that he fix had been installed in the USA and had ben well received.

I think it is all a 'towing the party line' speach and in fact they all know this car is a problem.

Hence the newer 350 but interestingly that appears to have the same gearbox but with a different management system again.

Let us all know how you get on.

We are due a conversation with the senior customer service man in Brussels later today so we will post later and keep all interested parties up to date.

Michael.

:shutit: It would apear Lexus UK, are not really interested in "existing customer satisfaction" more in recrutment of NEW customers, I found when "joining the club" they bent over backwards, after the honeymoon things went down hill fast, in my area Lexus are fast becoming a poor seller many guys in sales are already gone to new jobs, only a couple of desperados are still there.

If the trend of ignoring customers concerns (as Mercs have done) carries on sales will drop further, someone in marketing needs to wake-up and start to pass on the message WE WANT GOOD SERVICE. ;)

Hi John,

Whats that you say, good service -yes, thats all we want.

Still its only a £40k car what do you expect!

Our car has a definite list to starboard at the moment.

My wife went to drive it yesterday and found it had died in the front offside corner.

it has jsut been recovered and is on its way to the dealer to have a hip replecemnt or whatever it needs now.

Am due a call from Brussels later so it will be an interesting one as the dealer who refused to accept the cars return under the sale of goods act effectively now has the car!

Maybe I should just leave it with them and get a cheque instead?

Now theres a thoufght.......

Have a good day.

Michael.

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Hi Damian,

Thats all very interesting and pretty much in line with our initial thoughts.

Our car certainly learnt quite soon that there are two drivers and is back to its old self again and to be frank, much more so.

Our son was down at the weekend and drove the car.

We swapped cars for a while as he has just bought a TVR and Dad just had to compare it to the AM.

He does not know abou the new ECU upgrade and when we chatted about his car later, he commented, is Mums car Ok as it seemed to be very strange and sluggish about selecting a gear.

Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings...........

Best regards.

Michael.

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Hi Damian,

Good news about your car. Do let me know how you get on with it.

We have now done 20000 miles in ours.

The news is not good I am afraid.

We both find it initially more responsive but that then seems to become a bit wooly (like a flat spot) between 70/80 mph unless you kick down then its OK.

The overall fuel consumption seems about 3 mpg better as well which is good news.

SADLY THOUGH, the lurch is still there.

It is not as frequent as it used to be but on a 500 mile run yesterday when we did motorway and urban driving, the lurch was very definately with us. A passeneger in the car even commented on it so all is not as LGB had hoped.

Let me know what you think but for our part I am going to throw the car back at Lexus Southampton and insist on a refund or an exchange.

Enough is enough.

Has anyone had a new 3.5 model long enough to find out its problems????

Best regards.

Michael.

Interesting you should say that, Michael. I have mixed feelings about the situation too. However I am going to give it another week or two (as my representative miles are not as high as yours) before passing verdict.

Tony

Hi Tony.

any update on yours? Am now worried that ours will start to slide towards Michael's.

Michael, I wonder if your box was reset again would it return to its more positive state before it started to learn? If that was the case I wonder if there is a way to disable the learning aspect as I have yet to find/hear of any benefits of the learning, if anything it appears to make things worse rather than better. An explanation from Lexus as to why the learning element is there would be good.

br

Damian

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I have been biding my time waiting for Lexus Brighton to contact me.As ,of course, this did not happen I phoned last week.

They seemed to have only the vaguest notion of what I was talking about and suggested I phone LGB.I spoke to a lady there who treated me in the most off hand manner and seemed to object to the fact that I knew anything about a "fix" She said there was something on the website but it was for internal use only.

She suggested that if I had not complained to the dealer then nothing could be done. I said I had just done so before speaking to her!

I went back to Lexus Brighton who said they would undertake research and come back to me.They did not ,as always when I call and when I followed up they said they had to have more time but had spoken to other dealers who knew nothing about the problem. I am awating another call but I get the impression I should not hold my breath.

I did tell them to look at this site but I got the feeling that that would not be an option.

They should know very well about the problem...to be frank they are telling mistruths!

This is a commmon line that LGB and many the dealers take, its almost as if they hope we will all buy an XC90 or X5 etecetera and then just go away.

Our car has been changed, with a small additional payment because of the problem,

At LGB 's request I gathered a database of info for their use to contact all of those that reported the problem on this forum - they could not manage it themselves.

This has been sent to a Mr Hinshelwood in customer care (!) but he seems to have forgotten he has it as I know he is telling people that there is no problem and no fix that they, LGB, are aware of.

There is a fix - it is next to useless and has made our car far worse.

My advise is to tell your dealers to get of their backside and if they cannot get an answer from LGB then talk to Brussels (see our previous posts for contact and addresses)

Incidentally, the USA Forum seems to have a similar thread about 'weird' gearbox behaviour.

LGB also told me that he fix had been installed in the USA and had ben well received.

I think it is all a 'towing the party line' speach and in fact they all know this car is a problem.

Hence the newer 350 but interestingly that appears to have the same gearbox but with a different management system again.

Let us all know how you get on.

We are due a conversation with the senior customer service man in Brussels later today so we will post later and keep all interested parties up to date.

Michael.

:shutit: It would apear Lexus UK, are not really interested in "existing customer satisfaction" more in recrutment of NEW customers, I found when "joining the club" they bent over backwards, after the honeymoon things went down hill fast, in my area Lexus are fast becoming a poor seller many guys in sales are already gone to new jobs, only a couple of desperados are still there.

If the trend of ignoring customers concerns (as Mercs have done) carries on sales will drop further, someone in marketing needs to wake-up and start to pass on the message WE WANT GOOD SERVICE. ;)

Hi John,

Whats that you say, good service -yes, thats all we want.

Still its only a £40k car what do you expect!

Our car has a definite list to starboard at the moment.

My wife went to drive it yesterday and found it had died in the front offside corner.

it has jsut been recovered and is on its way to the dealer to have a hip replecemnt or whatever it needs now.

Am due a call from Brussels later so it will be an interesting one as the dealer who refused to accept the cars return under the sale of goods act effectively now has the car!

Maybe I should just leave it with them and get a cheque instead?

Now theres a thoufght.......

Have a good day.

Michael.

:D I hope this smile helps today Michael, one problem after another, I have had the Audi 3.0TDI 11 months now, NO problems, good economy, I have been offered a 20% discount on the new 4.2TDI A8 and have gone ahead and ordered one for september, I do hope you get sorted or just get rid. Best regards J :winky:

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We've had our (used) 2003MY RX300 for 5 months now, and if I indeed noticed the issue described in this thread (tip-in at crawl speed), it is not to an extent that I would complain about it to the dealer.

Now, some cars might be worse than others, or the issue might be appear worse with very different driving patterns. In our case, two drivers (wife and myself). And very different driving patterns throughout the day (race to work/school - quiet cruise to help baby sleep).

Also, when driving fast, I always select the S range on the transmission.

I recommend eveyone having a serious concern about the RX transmission to go out and drive test a Volvo XC90 D5 Geartronic as a benchmark.

Maybe some of you have been driving Lexus for too long and lost track with the real world. :winky:

Cheers,

Fabrice

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Hi Damian,

Good news about your car. Do let me know how you get on with it.

We have now done 20000 miles in ours.

The news is not good I am afraid.

We both find it initially more responsive but that then seems to become a bit wooly (like a flat spot) between 70/80 mph unless you kick down then its OK.

The overall fuel consumption seems about 3 mpg better as well which is good news.

SADLY THOUGH, the lurch is still there.

It is not as frequent as it used to be but on a 500 mile run yesterday when we did motorway and urban driving, the lurch was very definately with us. A passeneger in the car even commented on it so all is not as LGB had hoped.

Let me know what you think but for our part I am going to throw the car back at Lexus Southampton and insist on a refund or an exchange.

Enough is enough.

Has anyone had a new 3.5 model long enough to find out its problems????

Best regards.

Michael.

Interesting you should say that, Michael. I have mixed feelings about the situation too. However I am going to give it another week or two (as my representative miles are not as high as yours) before passing verdict.

Tony

Hi Tony.

any update on yours? Am now worried that ours will start to slide towards Michael's.

Michael, I wonder if your box was reset again would it return to its more positive state before it started to learn? If that was the case I wonder if there is a way to disable the learning aspect as I have yet to find/hear of any benefits of the learning, if anything it appears to make things worse rather than better. An explanation from Lexus as to why the learning element is there would be good.

br

Damian

Hi Damian

I have mixed feelings about the change and would say that there is an improvement with pro's and cons.

To summarise my response

1. some of the low end surging/lurching has gone

2. I find that the responsiveness has been reduced, especially there are two points were the gear is not as responsive as it should be

3. have thought as to whether it would be better to revert to old software - but for the moment I am going to give it a go. I have just done over 10.5 k and find that the situation is improving as the engine is "opening" up

4. mileage has improved on the motorway driving (24-25 mpg) whilst dropped on urban (16-17 mpg)

5. to counter some of the problems above, I have moved back to a higher octance fuel (say 97 RON) which helps with further eliminating the surging problem and improve mpg. Fuel that I am finding most helpful is Shell Optimax or Sainsbury Super. I would strongly suggest you try this out for say 2-4 tank fulls before passing judgement. BP and tesco's equivalents somehow do not tickle.

Hope the above is useful

Tony

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Hi Damian

I have mixed feelings about the change and would say that there is an improvement with pro's and cons.

To summarise my response

1. some of the low end surging/lurching has gone

2. I find that the responsiveness has been reduced, especially there are two points were the gear is not as responsive as it should be

3. have thought as to whether it would be better to revert to old software - but for the moment I am going to give it a go. I have just done over 10.5 k and find that the situation is improving as the engine is "opening" up

4. mileage has improved on the motorway driving (24-25 mpg) whilst dropped on urban (16-17 mpg)

5. to counter some of the problems above, I have moved back to a higher octance fuel (say 97 RON) which helps with further eliminating the surging problem and improve mpg. Fuel that I am finding most helpful is Shell Optimax or Sainsbury Super. I would strongly suggest you try this out for say 2-4 tank fulls before passing judgement. BP and tesco's equivalents somehow do not tickle.

Hope the above is useful

Tony

Unfortunately can't try the higher octance fuels as my fuel is paid for by the company I work for and they won't pay for higher octance fuels.

I can't say for certain and not sure if it's really an issue or not but have found that kick down needs a much greater shove of the pedal than before. I don't know if this is how the reduction in fuel consumption has been gained or not. I was wondering if this is one way they got round the selecting too low a gera which seemed to be causing the lurch before. Thinking being that with a much greater differential between a gentle push of the pedal which gives a smooth take off and one when you want/need to go quickly there is a much greater chance of avoiding the lurch as experienced before. As I say not really able to confirm this but just occurred to me over the weekend how much harder it seemed to get the car to go than before. It could be this need to push the pedal further than before which is creating the perception of less responsiveness?

br

D

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Hi Tony and Damian,

All very interesting.

You both seem to have the same thoughts as we do about the 'fix'.

It does seem to reduce fuel consumption initally but as the box gets to learn again it drops off to the previous levels.

Or, maybe that is just us trying to get the car to go again.

Not sure about that one.

It certainly does have a feeling of lagging somehow.

Ours also slips rather than drops into gear.

We are certainly of the opinion that he fix has not been anything like the panacea that Lexus expected it to be - more of a placebo effect really! Ha, ha.

We have experimented with different octane fuesl and the first mk 2 went better on higher octane but this one seems to make no difference other thanm to my fuel bills.

I confirm the thoughts that Shell Optimax and Sainsburys are better than the rivals.

I try always to put one or other in my Aston, preferably Shell.

When I am on a motorway and can only get BP or Texaco, my car certainly lets me know it is not enjoying its fuel too much!

In answer to Damian's query, yes if you disconnect the Battery for 20 mins plus it resets the learning curve but it comes back again, sometimes sooner and sometimes later than before.

But it does always come back.

STILL waiting for the promised call from Brussels - very disappointing, I thought we had a result there but it seems maybe we were too optimistic.

Oh well, back to plan A - REJECT. REJECT. REJECT.

Keep smiling!

Michael.

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Hello All,

Todays update -

We did not get a call from Brussels yesterday but did get an email saying -

"I have also been in contact with Lexus GB about your other concerns. Please remember that Lexus GB would be the one which makes a decision on any buyback or replacement Lexus. I have made them aware that you are not satisfied with your RX300. "

So, as the dealership already had the car we told them to keep it as we have rejected it.

Have now asked Japan, Brussels and LGB for our money back.

How many of us are going to the motorshow to see Lexus and other cars we should perhaps have bought instead?

Michael.

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Hello All,

Todays update -

We did not get a call from Brussels yesterday but did get an email saying -

"I have also been in contact with Lexus GB about your other concerns. Please remember that Lexus GB would be the one which makes a decision on any buyback or replacement Lexus. I have made them aware that you are not satisfied with your RX300. "

So, as the dealership already had the car we told them to keep it as we have rejected it.

Have now asked Japan, Brussels and LGB for our money back.

How many of us are going to the motorshow to see Lexus and other cars we should perhaps have bought instead?

Michael.

Well at last , progress. It is looking gooD :) I am away in Ireland from Wed now till next Monday, so BFN.

Billy

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Good afternoon to you all,

We have had an email from our dealership telling us that the car is fine and they will not accept its return!

So, thats two rejection letters they have ignored totally.

However, the car is with them.

As we are now totally fed up with being reasonable in our approach, we are looking for outside help.

My research tells me that BBC TV's Watchdog program is off air until September but I suspect the Radio has just the target audience that Lexus are going for.

Having had enough of this saga, we have today spoken to a reasearcher for and at his request have emailed the BBC RAdio Four consumer affairs program 'You and Yours' to tell them of the issues.

Please woill any of you who want to support the issue mail them or call them?

the contact details are

youandyours@bbc.co.uk or telephone 0800 044 044 The gent I spoke to was called Gary.

More posts will follow as we hear more.

Michael.

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Have you had legal advice on this? Wondered if there are strong grounds for taking them to court.

Hi Jroph,

Yes, there are strong grounds for court action.

One would tike to think that a major international corporation whose motto is 'Pursuit of Perfection' may actually have some small understanding of customer relations!

Perhaps they will come to their senses and sdort this out with us and all the others with the same issue before we go that far.

I see on the USA Forum that you guys have the same issues over rhere even though Lexus GB tell me that the fix is a great success in the States............maybe thats all just hogwash too!

Maybe you can make a post on the state forum telling them to look at the UK one and read this thread.

I tried but for some reason I was blocked from doing so - not sure why or by whom but I was blocked form posting on the forum there.

Best regards.

Michael

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Michael,

you mention:

As we are now totally fed up with being reasonable in our approach, we are looking for outside help.

If you're looking to help you fight your corner, 'Which?' are supposed to be the consumers' champion. They certainly do a good job of the legal side of things and have helped many consumers in many areas and particularly with cars.

They are always looking for good stories and are responsive to emails.

Try mailing 'which@which.co.uk' it seems a general mailbox, but it always worked for me! and pass them your potted history and the link to this thread. I've always had a good experience with them and the last thing LGB would want is headline news from Which?

If they insist you need a membership number, I can help you out with mine!

Bart.

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Upgrade to be provided on Thursday.Also had a moan about the wheels and was immediately told new ones would be ordered.

Great stuff.

I look forward to that.

M#Nice to hear about the wheels :)

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Have you had legal advice on this? Wondered if there are strong grounds for taking them to court.

Hi Jroph,

Yes, there are strong grounds for court action.

One would tike to think that a major international corporation whose motto is 'Pursuit of Perfection' may actually have some small understanding of customer relations!

Perhaps they will come to their senses and sdort this out with us and all the others with the same issue before we go that far.

I see on the USA Forum that you guys have the same issues over rhere even though Lexus GB tell me that the fix is a great success in the States............maybe thats all just hogwash too!

Maybe you can make a post on the state forum telling them to look at the UK one and read this thread.

I tried but for some reason I was blocked from doing so - not sure why or by whom but I was blocked form posting on the forum there.

Best regards.

Michael

Hi Michael

Wondering how you are getting along. You have started a movement (!) and I for one want to see and support how your efforts bear fruit.

Thanks.

Tony

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No comments as I had something good to say ????!!!!! :hehe:

OOps sorry. I forgot to reply!!

Yes , that is good news. Let's hope it holds up!!:)

To be honest I misunderstood you when you said an upgrade would be downloaded!

I thought you meant they were going to download details of the 2007 RX400h ugrade.

Silly me :blush:

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