Deisel Beters Rx400h

[Lexusjohn]

Well check this out guys. http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-sto...p?news_id=12868

Any comments!

[adz]

Although 4x4'a aren't my thing my Dad has an ML270 merc and it's horrible , Like a big tonka toy without the build quality.

I don't suppose a german car magazine would be biased then!

The test they did wasn't typical of standard usage either, where I believe the Lexus would win, and I am biased. :winky:

[fergy]

Does sound like the test was designed to show off the Merc's abilities..

Though, sure I saw in another review that a x5 diesel did better mpg than the RX400....

[JohnRX400h]

Want Lexus, want petrol, want power.

Merc? aye that i'll be right.

[walks back to RX400h and purrs]

:winky:

[Kazi]

Them Mercs are nasty, hideous infact, the Lex has les environmental effect which is good for the green peace entusiasts!

Apart from which, don't care how hard a company tries to reduce smog from diesels, they stink and they just don't have the same drive in my opinion.

[AFICIO]

Well check this out guys.                  http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-sto...p?news_id=12868

Any comments!

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Well I know what I would prefer to be in. My Father-in-Law has the Merc and it just doesn't compare in anyway to my RX400

Mark

[Lexusjohn]

:) Ithough that would inject some fire in you guys, I agree the Merc has a build quality issue ( the germans also think this) so the LEX wins for us anyway.

[DieterML]

Hi,

That was an interesting comparison, especially regarding 'in town' driving i.e. not much better than 320 CDi :P .

As others have said the main reason for buying 400h is the power increase :D . Thus the 400h gives extra power with better fuel economy than its petrol parent (albeit at a supplement of £5K) which is progress.

What the above article showed (to me) was that a petrol hybrid is equivalent to a diesel. Currently Lexus does not have a diesel so the hybrid is a(an expensive) substitute for a diesel.

I don't believe any sensible person should compare the Mercedes 270 Cdi engine with the new 3rd generation V6 320 CDi engine (unless you're biased, of course) and equipped with the Brabus D6 chip this diesel unit will give both equivalent power output (to 400h) and fuel consumption (for 1500 euros without invalidating warranty etc.) to standard car. Plus it's still a full time 4wd with a proper gearbox and without torque steer etc.

I think the 400h is a good car but it's not for me. And that's the way it is :D . Choice based on availability and preference, not bias and jealousy etc.

I'm looking forward to my new ML 320CDi sport (with airmatic :D ) and shall enjoy it as much as the 400h owners enjoy their car.

Pleasant driving.

Cheers,

Dieter

[nickjwarman]

I saw the new Merc at the Geneva motor show. It does look great - a bit more aggressive than the RX.

To me, it looked like a mix of the old ML and an RX!

I test drove the RX400h sel last week. It was impressive but didn't blow me away. The sooner they get rid of aluminium bits and gimmicky displays on the hybrids, the better.

I had to turn the efficiency display off - it became quite irritating!

The one thing that no other 4x4 can get around is the 400h's low co2 levels. So it's ideal if you really want a 4x4 and have to tolerate hippy environmentalist banter from relatives or collegues!

[Parthiban]

At the end of the day, a diesel may have better economy than the hybrid, but I see the hybrid as a vehicle for people who don't want to put up with the stink, or the noise, carcinogens, should I go on? :)

The fact that the hybrid can come that close to the economy of the diesel, but can do it with the refinement that a £40000 luxury car should, makes it an absolute winner to me, and should do to any other person with any sense

Why spend so much money on something, that sounds like a truck, chucks out black smoke and other rubbish that is harmful, and isn't a complete pleasure

[DieterML]

Hi Parthibun,

Modern diesels have long put that image behind them :D and this is even more so for new Euro IV compliant diesels etc.

You make it sound like the 400h has zero emissions :P . Under the new system of 'eco-scoring' it gets a red sticker (just like ML) and it's not a coincidence that it's not exempt from (London) congestion charge (unlike Prius).

The real facts are that the hybrid was touted to have the economy of a family car. If this is so then, by same token, so does new ML, X5 3.0D etc.

What the 400h does is make the fuel consumption of a petrol powered car (but only if driven lightly) equivalent to that of a diesel (no mean feat + you get extra power etc.). I have no problems with this but at a @ £5000 premium! and what value when 7 years old? (year left on Battery warranty :yack: )

In my opinion diesel hybrid (using bio-diesel if this Government would only encourage its use) is the next step (prior to fuel cells etc.) and this step won't be LED by Toyota.

Enjoy your 400h.

Cheers,

Dieter

[Parthiban]

You make a fair point, but for me a diesel is not an option unless they make them much, much better. They still sound like trucks when they idle (even a brand new E320 CDI that I rode in) and they don't sound great when you rev them either. I agree diesel's are very torquey, but there is no smooth progressive power band, and instead it all comes in one big lump, and then you run out of revs and shift up. A diesel can't make a true driver's car

I am not buying a 400h, but totally back the technology, because in my opinion a diesel will never be the answer, so until other fuel sources become available, hybrids are the way forward for those who want everything, smooth petrol power and good economy :)

Btw, with the current state of fuel prices, I don't see how a diesel is cheaper to run than the hybrid with such a big difference between the price of diesel and unleaded

[The Mole]

Preferences are preferences, but no one can argue that the RX400h is the ONLY 4x4 in the world to offer 30+ mpg, 7 sec bracket 0-60, saloon car emissions and the smoothness, quietness and refinement of a lux saloon.

To get the same power you've got to go to 4 to 5 litres with the competition and that will give you less than 20 mpg and huge emissions.

To get the same economy you need a diesel that is slower, noiser, smellier and less refined and still with high emissions when in a 4x4.

Hybrid really is a leap forward.

[fergy]

Preferences are preferences, but no one can argue that the RX400h is the ONLY 4x4 in the world to offer 30+ mpg, 7 sec bracket 0-60, saloon car emissions and the smoothness, quietness and refinement of a lux saloon.

To get the same power you've got to go to 4 to 5 litres with the competition and that will give you less than 20 mpg and huge emissions.

To get the same economy you need a diesel that is slower, noiser, smellier and less refined and still with high emissions when in a 4x4.

Hybrid really is a leap forward. 

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It will be very interesting to see how the RX400 compares to the new X5...it will come with the 3 litre twin turbo engine presently in the 535d....274bhp and LOADS of torque... and it is lovelly and smooth being a straight 6. With the partical trap etc I'd expect the emissions to be very good also. Just the price of the BMW that will be very scary..as usual...

[spwolfx]

Eh, this looks like it was designed for MB diesel to win.

Let me offer few facts:

- RX400h has a lot more torque than ML

- AutoBild's own tests show that RX has significantly better passing speed

than ML320CDI

- RX400h is a lot faster in every other performance test as well

- Auto Motor und Sport's individual tests shown RX400h getting average consumption of 30% better than ML320 while on their test fleet.

I wonder what exactly did they qualify as city driving when on all of the individual tests, ML320 spent 1l-3l more in city driving than RX400h.

Let me show Autobild's own results for both cars:

0-100kmh

RX - 7.7 sec

ML - 9.0 sec

60-100kmh

RX - 3.9 sec

ML - 5.0 sec

80-120kmh

RX - 4.9 sec

ML - 6.4 sec

As to the RX400h premium of 5k, it is still on the same level of pricing as ML320CDI.

And these are Auto Motor und Sport mpg's during their testing:

RX400h 10.1l/100km

ML320CDE 12.9l/100km

To be fair, ML320CDI is an fine suv, and certainly holds advantage over RX400h in high speed highway mpg especially, but I find it quite funny that they only managed to get 11% difference at task that was specifically done to suit ML... And even taken at face value, 11% difference in MPG gives you 30% difference in speed.