The Monster......

[Monster-Mat]

Mark,

have the covers arrived, are they fitted.......is there pics :)

[tdiplc]

Not yet Mat

[Monster-Mat]

what they havt arrived, was supposed to be there in 3 days

[andyhart21]

I don't know why I bother sending things by Royal Mail, it is the most unreliable service I have ever come across :tsktsk:

I will chase it up tomorrow Mat, as you said they should have been there Friday or at the latest today

I **** hate the **** **** ***** ****ing ***** **** ***** Royal Mail :tsktsk: :tsktsk: :tsktsk: :tsktsk: :tsktsk: :tsktsk:

[Monster-Mat]

Mark, any pics yet with the covers on.

Mark, also, feesability ......2 smaller condensers placed in series back to back.....???

what you recon?

place them behind the upper grill

im trying to find a small car with a small condenser, needs to be about 300mm x 70mm, i saw one the other day in a beer cooler, would x2 of these work

[Monster-Mat]

ok...Mark, or one of you other cool dudes(literally)

i need the measurements behind the upper grill

depth from grill mesh to radiator (D)

height, fro crash bar to below slam panel (H)

width ...from left headlight to right headlight (L)

this is so i can get a custom condenser built.......and have aircon again

[Scorpion]

i need the measurements behind the upper grill

Right wheres me bit of string

[Monster-Mat]

Mark.

why again isnt the aircon going back in.....is it the condenser thats in the way or is the problem somewhere else

[Zee007]

Mark.

why again isnt the aircon going back in.....is it the condenser thats in the way or is the problem somewhere else

At least it will save weight I guess...

[wildrnes]

not really a luxury motor tho

[imi]

wildrnes Posted on Jun 23 2003, 10:28 AM

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not really a luxury motor tho 

Zee007 Posted on Jun 23 2003, 10:24 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE (Supracharged-IS340 @ Jun 23 2003, 10:42 AM)

Mark.

why again isnt the aircon going back in.....is it the condenser thats in the way or is the problem somewhere else 

At least it will save weight I guess... 

But Mat with that speed of 200+mph, i am sure passing breeze will cool you down.. :shutit:

[wildrnes]

wildrnes Posted on Jun 23 2003, 10:28 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

not really a luxury motor tho  

Zee007 Posted on Jun 23 2003, 10:24 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE (Supracharged-IS340 @ Jun 23 2003, 10:42 AM)

Mark.

why again isnt the aircon going back in.....is it the condenser thats in the way or is the problem somewhere else 

At least it will save weight I guess... 

But Mat with that speed of 200+mph, i am sure passing breeze will cool you down.. :shutit:

has it got electric windows?

[Micelis]

Won't pretend to understand this but thought maybe it'll help?

Replacing the Engine

There has been quite some discussions recently regarding engine replacements and dropping in other engines than the 7M into the MA7 body. On this page I'm going to give it a try to give my opinion, founding and views on other engines.

Why

A question people tend to NOT ask when doing modifications is why. Why would you make your car go faster in return for reliability. My experiences for the last years where: When you modify the engine it will brake or you will brake something else, like the transmission or possibly the rear end.

Dropping a JZ engine into the MA7 body can solve one of these problems. The JZ engines are at least 7 years ahead of the M engines (M engines came in 1986 and the JZ engine came in 1993), so the JZ engine can be expected to be more reliable. Furthermore it is always 'cool' or 'nice' to build something (a combination) which is rendered 'not possible' or which has never been sold by the original manufacturer.

What

A good point of Toyota cars is that everything is quite the same. Most engines use about the same bolt patterns or engine mounts so it does not take that many efforts to drop in other engines. With regards to the MA7 body, I know of the following possibilities;

S engines (3S-GE, 3S-GTE)

M engines (5M and 7M)

JZ engines (1JZ, 2JZ)

UZ engines (1UZ, 2UZ)

Let's go through the possibilities and have a little discussion

3S engines

There are quite a few flavors of the 3S engines. To name the most common: the 3S-GE and 3S-GTE. These engines came in a few Celicas and the second generation MR2 (SW20/21). The 3S engine is a 4 piston engine with 2 liter displacement. Dropping in this engine would only be considered if you are in a race application and you need a better power to weight ratio (by lowering the weight) and a better weight distribution between front wheels and the rears. The engine is very compact and will sit in the end of the engine bay, nearly completely behind the front wheels. Building this engine into the MA7 body will be quite difficult. I don't know how the bell housing would bolt up to the engine, if it would belt up. I would consider this upgrade as something to be done by the super pro's, like Top Secret, who has done it to a JZA8 body. Note that loads of JZA8 cars doing race competitions use the 3S engine because of the weight considerations.

5M engines & 7M engines

This story can be made very short. This is everything but an upgrade. The 5M engine came from the Celica Supra, also named the Mk2 Supra. The 7M engine is MA7 native, so not a real engine upgrade either ;)

1JZ engines

The 1JZ engine came in various flavors as well, like the 1JZ-FE and the 1JZ-GTE. The 'F' in Toyota terms stands for 'fuel economy' or something, the 'E' stands for 'Electronic Injection' as opposed to carbureted engines. The "G" stands for sportier engines, which is determined by the angle and size of the valves. The 'F' engines have smaller valves and the 'G' engine has bigger valves. To make a long story short, stay away from FE engines as long as you can and always go for 'G' engines.

The widest spread 1JZ engine is for sure the 1JZ-GTE. This engine came in various models, of which the JZA-7 car is the most known. The car has the same body (and looks) as the MA7, and was only available in the Japanese market. As you might know, in Japan they don't drive on the right side of the road (but the wrong side) and thus they have the steering wheel on the right hand side (RHD). This results in having the ECU on the left hand side. Now if you take a peek in your engine bay, you see the engine harness (engine wires) run from the left hand side from the engine towards the firewall and then go into the car to the ECU. You can imagine the wiring harness is considerably shorter on right hand driven vehicles than on LHD.

The 1JZ-GTE engine came with a true twin turbo setup (1 turbo driven by 3 cylinders, in contrast to a sequential twin turbo setup, or just a single turbo setup). The engine is in stock condition good for 280 hp at the crank. As the stroke is rather small (71.5 mm) the piston speed is quite low. This results in a very smooth running engine, which can have the red line moved up quite high, with the right precautions (better valve springs).

As the 1JZ-GTE came in a body quite comparable to the MA7 (JZA7 body), we can consider this engine to be suitable to be placed in our MA7 body. Let's continue with the next.

1JZ-FE 200 hp @ 6000 rpm

250 Nm @ 3800 rpm 86 x 71.5 mm, 11 bar compression

1JZ-GE 180 hp @ 6000 rpm

235 Nm @ 4800 rpm 86 x 71.5 mm, 10 bar compression

1JZ-GTE 280 hp @ 6200 rpm

362 Nm @ 4800 rpm 86 x 71.5 mm, 8.5 bar compression

1JZ-FSE VVTi (Direct injection) 200 hp @ 6000 rpm

250 Nm @ 3800 rpm 

1JZ-GE VVTi 200 hp @ 6000 rpm

255 Nm @ 4000 rpm 

1JZ-GTE VVTi 280 hp @ 6200 rpm

378 Nm @ 2400 rpm 

1G engines

The 1G engine is a 2 liter displacement six piston engine. The engine is quite common in the 'FE' variety, where it found it's way to the Lexus IS200 cars (1G-FE VVTi, these cars came with the 3S engines as well, but this is the 4 piston 2 liter engine with a much lower torque). If you take a look down here in the overview of horsepower and torque specifications, we agree that this engine is not much of an upgrade either.

1G-FE 135 hp @ 5600 rpm

173 Nm @ 4400 rpm 75 x 75 mm, 9.6 bar compression

1G-GE 150 hp @ 6200 rpm

182 Nm @ 5600 rpm 75 x 75 mm, 9.5 bar compression

1G-GZE 168 hp @ 6000 rpm

226 Nm @ 3600 rpm 75 x 75 mm, 8 bar compression

1G-GTE 210 hp @ 6200 rpm

275 Nm @ 3800 rpm 75 x 75 mm, 8 bar compression

1G-FE VVTi 160 hp @ 6200 rpm

200 Nm @ 4400 rpm 75 x 75 mm, 10 bar compression

2JZ engines

The 2JZ engine is considered as one of the best power plants available as of today. The engine came in various cars of which the twin turbo mk IV Supra is one of the best known. Other cars you find this engine in are the IS300 and GS300, which are equipped with the GE version with variable valve timing VVTi.

As the 2JZ engine is very closely related to the 1JZ engine (same family) it shouldn't be much of a problem to drop this engine in the MA7 body, as the 1JZ engine does fit as well (Toyota proved this).

2JZ-FE 220 hp @ 5600 rpm

294 Nm @ 3600 rpm 86 x 86 mm, 11.3 bar compression

2JZ-GTE 320 hp @ 5800 rpm

427 Nm @ 3600 rpm 86 x 86 mm, 8.5 bar compression

2JZ-FSE VVTi 220 hp @ 5600 rpm

294 Nm @ 3600 rpm 86 x 86 mm

2JZ-GE VVTi 220 hp @ 5800 rpm

298 Nm @ 3800 rpm 86 x 86 mm

2JZ-GTE VVTi 280 hp @ 5600 rpm (limited)

454 Nm @ 3600 rpm 86 x 86 mm, 8.5 bar compression

UZ engines

The UZ family of engines are V8 engines to be found in the Lexus LS400 and LS430. These engines are heavy and deliver around 300 hp. Although it would be nice to drop in a V8 into the Supra body, it is not a real upgrade. The engines only came in the "FE" flavor, having the valves on a small angle resulting in less power. Currently I don't find it of any interest to further research the possibility of dropping this engine into the MA7 body, although I know the HKS drag supra uses this engine in a highly modified form delivering over 1800 hp!!!! I assume you are about USD 80k lighter when you want to go that far ;) For what I have seen, the fly plate doesn't bolt up directly to the transmission so it can be quite a problem to drop this in.

Let's resume

So we have two real options from the above sheet to use for a real engine upgrade, namely the 1JZ-GTE engine which came only as a right hand drive model and the 2JZ-GTE engine which came as both a LHD and RHD model.

What is needed for a JZ-GTE engine swap

To mount the JZ engine into your MA7 body you need to consider a few points. Let's go over these:

Motor mounts

As you might know, the Mk3 Supra got a body restyle somewhere in 1988 / 1989. In that time not only the body was restyled (other rear spoiler and other front nose) but some engine internals where changed as well. The engine came with 2 extra horse powers due to some redesign in the turbo waste gate. The engine mounts where changed from the square solid rubber ones, to round 'fluid filled' mounts. Due to this redesign in engine mounts, the cross member was changed as well. This all came with the introduction of the Japanese spec JZA70, having the 1JZ-GTE engine aboard. To make a story short: If you have a 'new model' mk3 supra, you can use your round fluid filled motor mounts to mount the 1JZ engine to the MA7 body. If you don't have a late model mk3 supra, you need to buy a cross member of the late model and buy the two fluid filled motor mounts. If you replace this all in your car you are done. The engine can be mounted.

Transmission

With the transmission we have a solution for both options, manual and automatic. First of all to make one thing clear: the bell housing of your 7M transmission does not bolt up to the JZ engines. None of the bolts are at the same location on the 7M as on the JZ engines, so you can surely forget about that. To make things even worse, the starter motor is on a different position and the starter gear would shoot straight through your M bell housing. The best solution for this would be making use of a bell housing that bolts straight to the JZ engine on the one side and has the same perfect fit on the other side for your transmission. For automatic transmission these bell housings can easily be bought. Such a bell housing is for example the bell housing from an automatic MkIV Supra, or any other auto 2JZ-GE (or GTE) equipped vehicle, like the GS300. These cars all came with the A340E transmission, so if you use that bell housing you're done.

When you are able to bolt up the auto tranny to the engine, you still need to connect the torque converter to the fly plate. It is not possible to connect your 7M fly plate to the crank of the 2JZ, as the 7M fly plate uses 6 bolts here and the 2JZ fly plate uses 8 bolts. I haven't looked into this for the 1JZ engine, but I assume all JZ engines use 8 bolts at the crank. So we need to find a way to fit the JZ fly plate to the M torque converter. For what I have seen they both use 6 bolts but I don't know for sure if these bolts are in the same pattern (same diameter). I have to look further into this for my own upgrade, as I am driving an auto and I wish to stay with it. If anyone can give me the bolt circle diameter on the fly plate I would greatly appreciate it! Please send me the info by email.

Now for the manual transmission. There are not many cars that came with the JZ engine and the same manual transmission as the MA7, namely the R154. This five speed manual was only put in the Mk3 Supra, but to make you not too disappointed, the manual box came with the 1JZ-GTE equipped supra as well! So to get your manual tranny bolted to the JZ engine, you need the bell housing off the JZA70 car. This bell housing can hardly be found on any wreck yard. While the JZA70 cars are quite scarce, the manual cars delivered by Toyota can be counted on one hand! So you need to buy this piece of aluminum new from Toyota. I doubt if JayMarks is able to deliver you this piece, but I can. The Toyota parts number is: 31111-14111 (Housing, Clutch). See if you can find it yourself, if not contact me. The price for this piece is somewhere around 400 USD or so!!!! Yes people, for a piece of metal.

For the clutch you can use the regular Toyota clutch or drop in the HKS twin plate. It's all up to you. Just see what you burn out and then replace it!

More thoughts on Transmission

Why not drop in the Twin Turbo 6 speed

Dropping in the 6 speed is quite ambitious project, but I have heard it is done. First of all, the 6 speed does not fit. The transmission tunnel is not big enough for the V160 transmission to fit in. So you need a big hammer and hammer out the tunnel. Furthermore the end gear ratio of the V160 transmission is very different compared to the R154. Where the end gear on the Mk3 is generally G305 (3.727) the end gear ratio on the MkIV manual is normally 3.133. So if you would put this transmission into your car you would be slipping the tires very much and go through your gears way faster. Besides the gear ratio's, you must consider the driveshaft as well. Where the driveshaft of the Mk3 is a 'slide in' connection, the MkIV makes use of a 'bolt on' connection. A custom driveshaft seems to be necessairy, or another option is taking the differential with you as well! This all would stretch the story too much and I'm not going any deeper into the 6 speed, one last thing to be said: The ABS computer gets its rear spead pulses from the speed sensor bolted to the transmission, it's quite obvious you will either loose the ABS functionality or you have to place some other kind of rear speed sensors on the rear wheels in order to fix this.

Why not drop in the A340E of the Twin Turbo

Good question! First of all for the people who don't understand this question: The A340E automatic transmission of the 2JZ-GTE is not the same as the A340E transmission of the 7M-GTE. (Hence the name I would say ;)

First of all there are minor differences like fluid usage; while the M series auto trannies use the same as the 2JZ-GE auto tranny (ATF Dexron II), the A340E transmission of the 2JZ-GTE uses ATF Type T-II, and one liter more (in total 8.2 liter).

Then the torque converter of the 2JZ-GTE is different; the stall torque ratio of the 2JZ-GE auto tranny is 1.9, the 2JZ-GTE is 2.0 and the 7M-GTE uses 2.1. Furthermore the 2JZ-GTE automatic transmission uses one more disc for the forward clutch (C1), namely 7 instead of 6.

So all together a little difference between the auto tranny of the 2JZ and the auto tranny of the M series. Let's see what the end gear ratio is, for the M series we have the end gear ratio the same as the manual; 3.727. For the JZ series we have an end gear ratio of 3.769. Wow, nearly a perfect fit. A little difference but not all too bad I would say.

Main questions to be answered will be: How are you going to fix the speed sensor for the ABS? How about the driveshaft, is it a bolt on or slide in? For what I have seen on the EPC program, I think the driveshaft is bolt on, just like the manual, but I could be wrong. As I'm going with the auto tranny on my 2JZ I tell you my considerations: I can upgrade my auto tranny to withstand 600 RWHP for less than 600 USD. So why would you bother using the auto tranny of the mkIV when you hear all this?

I've heard the MkIV came with a five speed, Can we use this?

You've heard it right, the MkIV came with a five speed in the non turbo models, similar to the five speed used in the non turbo models for the M series, except for some improvements to make the shifts shorter. The gearbox has the same ratios for all speeds, the end ratio is different though. For the M non turbo we have an end ratio of 4.300 and for the JZ model we have an end ratio of 4.272. Not very much of a difference but still worth the consideration. So your question: Can we use it or not? Answer: I think the best solution in order to save money is going with the W58 transmission of the MA7 and use the bell housing of the 2JZ-GE manual. You will certainly toast your transmission some day. The W58 is not a strong transmission and the more stress you put on it, the earlier it will pop! But you will be driving and have fun, while others will be waiting for their R154 bellhousing. So a good temporal solution is dropping in this cheap transmission and focus on the rest of the engine (like wiring the stuff up). Then hit the road and wait for your bell housing to show up. When it does, you can always drop in the stronger R154 transmission. Good advice?

More thoughts on Engines

The 1JZ engine is RHD only, how do I get the wire loom in my LHD vehicle?

Very good question! The answer is difficult, but to make it short: You need to be fairly good at using a soldering device. The thing is, all wires need to be extended to reach the computer which needs to be mounted in the original location. If you don't want to do this, you should ask yourself the question if you want the 1JZ anyways. This comes with the job and needs to be done, period. I don't see putting the computer somewhere under the steering wheel or so as a good solution!

Where can I learn more about the 1JZ-GTE engine? What about performance upgrades?

People, you really got me by the balls now. I don't know any good site about upgrading the 1JZ engine in stages. Yes, an air filter, an exhaust, a boost controller. But then what? To satisfy your needs, I need at least 20 emails from people who want this and then I'll make you a special document with everything I know about the 1JZ upgrades. And people, trust me, I know a lot about it. So if you want information, let your voice be heard down here in the comments forum or send me an email.

I can buy a cheap Jap spec 2JZ-GTE, should I do it? What's the difference with other engines?

Good question, again. There are various differences between all the 2JZ engines around. The biggest difference is between the Japanese specifications engine and the engine to be exported. These differences are:

General 2JZ-GTE engines have 320 hp Japanese spec 2JZ-GTE engines are limited to 280 hp by waste gate restrictions. This can be solved with a boost controller

General 2JZ-GTE engines have steel blades Japanese spec 2JZ-GTE engines have ceramic turbo blades. These tend to spool quicker but give you less top end performance

General 2JZ-GTE engines have 550cc injectors low impedance (resistor pack required) Japanese spec 2JZ-GTE engines have 430cc high impedance (no resistor pack) This is generally good for 18 PSI of boost

General 2JZ-GTE engines have a Mass Air Flow sensor Japanese spec 2JZ-GTE engines have a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor

Furthermore I can come up with 20 other differences, including cam overlap and lift and such. So what does this mean for you? Depends on what you want. The Jap spec engine is a good performer and it's generally speaking easier to get a Jap spec engine for cheap than a LHD model for cheap. Furthermore the MAP sensor is a nice gadget, in return for the 430cc injectors which can be upgraded without a problem though. Generally speaking 'all' upgrades for export models are applicable to the Jap spec cars as well.

I can get a cheap RHD engine, can I fit the LHD wiring loom?

Yes you can. Make sure you order the right wiring loom, as there are really PLENTY of possibilities. These are the wiring looms I know, if you have anything to add to this list, please be so polite.

82121-1B010 9305-9311 LHD, 5F

82121-1B040 9311-9408 LHD, 5F

82121-14780 9305-9311 RHD, 5F

82121-14781 9311-9408 RHD, 5F

82121-1B041 9408- 5F

82121-14880 9305-9408 LHD, 6F

82121-14881 9408- LHD, 6F

82121-14820 9305-9408 RHD, 6F

82121-14890 9305-9408 LHD, ATM

82121-14891 9408- LHD, ATM (European)

82121-14830 9305-9408 RHD, ATM

82121-14831 9408- RHD, ATM

82121-14821 9408- RHD, MTM

82121-1B020 9408- ATM, Gluf Corporation Council

So in general, please check the year of the engine, and if it's a 5 speed (NA), 6 speed or Automatic. A note for people converting a Japanese specification engine to LHD, the wiring loom is a good 'start' but you will certainly need to make it customized a little.

I live in Country XX, Am I street legal and do I pass emissions?

Another good question! And the answer: I don't know. If you're living in Holland the general rule of the thumb is: When you change the number of pistons, you need to have a new 'type goedkeuring'  for your car. This is a check if the car is still ok, like not too much weight in the nose and the brakes are proportional to the engine power. If you don't change the number of pistons you're generally speaking ok. If you live in Belgium for example, you're screwed. These kind of modifications are not allowed in Belgium. If you live in California, you have to see if you pass emission tests, but this is generally speaking not a real problem with the 2JZ. Another thing is 'visual inspectation' but a normal test agent doesn't understand heck of what engine is in what car, so this should not be a problem. In short: Check with your local authorities before you do such an upgrade.

I can much easier get a 2JZ-GE engine than any turbo charged engine. I was already planning on upgrading the turbo's, so this seems to be a good option. Do you agree?

In some contrast I do agree in some I don't. First of all, the GTE engines and GE engines are about the same price from a wreck yard, so if you buy a GTE engine you got the turbos for free, which in turn you can sell to anyone else when you do the upgrade. If you are going to do a turbo upgrade on the GE engine, you need to lower compression by for example fitting in a 3 mm MHG. This is all quite some work, time and money and it's better to go with the GTE engine anyways. It's all your own decision of course, but going with the GTE is easier and you have other gadgets for free, like the oil nozzles that are not in the GE engine.

Note that all the turbo upgrades designed for the GTE engine do NOT fit the GE engines. On the GE engines, the exhaust ports are different. So any manifold for the GTE does not bolt up to the GE. You need special designed manifolds for doing a turbo upgrade on the GE engine. Note it is possible to replace the intake surge tank of the GE. This will prevent the intake charge from running over the hot turbo, although you might consider this to do on a later stage, as the GE engine has the same idea of the M engine so maybe you can still use your intercooler hard pipe set.

Hope this all gives you a good indication and 'view' about what is possible with the JZ engines in the MA body. If you have any questions please fill in the forum below and I will answer them promptly. If you have any suggestions, view, opinions, flames whatever, just type them as well. Any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[Monster-Mat]

thanks Micelis, we have moved beyond the engine and gearbox instalation phase now, but an intresting read all the same

[Zee007]

Have you got your a/c problem sorted yet matthew?

[Micelis]

Well I figured it wouldnt be usefull for project "Monster" itself but more informative as to what kinda problems one would encounter whilst trying to do something like this....

For the somewhat more "critical" amongst us.. :winky: :D

[tdiplc]

Update...

The gear lever is now in position and working properly, the propshaft is a major problem but we're 3/4 of the way through that.

The air con is a problem but Mat has opted to do without that for the time being to speed things up and save costs.

The next thing to tackle is the power steering, then after that (unless we come across anything else) we will be attempting to get The Monster breathing.

Mark :)

[Zee007]

That's excellent news Mark - you seem to be making some real progress. You think there's a chance of it running by JAE then?

[dark_is200]

Won't pretend to understand this but thought maybe it'll help?

Replacing the Engine

There has been quite some discussions recently regarding engine replacements and dropping in other engines than the 7M into the MA7 body. On this page I'm going to give it a try to give my opinion, founding and views on other engines.

Why

A question people tend to NOT ask when doing modifications is why. Why would you make your car go faster in return for reliability. My experiences for the last years where: When you modify the engine it will brake or you will brake something else, like the transmission or possibly the rear end.

Dropping a JZ engine into the MA7 body can solve one of these problems. The JZ engines are at least 7 years ahead of the M engines (M engines came in 1986 and the JZ engine came in 1993), so the JZ engine can be expected to be more reliable. Furthermore it is always 'cool' or 'nice' to build something (a combination) which is rendered 'not possible' or which has never been sold by the original manufacturer.

What

A good point of Toyota cars is that everything is quite the same. Most engines use about the same bolt patterns or engine mounts so it does not take that many efforts to drop in other engines. With regards to the MA7 body, I know of the following possibilities;

S engines (3S-GE, 3S-GTE)

M engines (5M and 7M)

JZ engines (1JZ, 2JZ)

UZ engines (1UZ, 2UZ)

Let's go through the possibilities and have a little discussion

3S engines

There are quite a few flavors of the 3S engines. To name the most common: the 3S-GE and 3S-GTE. These engines came in a few Celicas and the second generation MR2 (SW20/21). The 3S engine is a 4 piston engine with 2 liter displacement. Dropping in this engine would only be considered if you are in a race application and you need a better power to weight ratio (by lowering the weight) and a better weight distribution between front wheels and the rears. The engine is very compact and will sit in the end of the engine bay, nearly completely behind the front wheels. Building this engine into the MA7 body will be quite difficult. I don't know how the bell housing would bolt up to the engine, if it would belt up. I would consider this upgrade as something to be done by the super pro's, like Top Secret, who has done it to a JZA8 body. Note that loads of JZA8 cars doing race competitions use the 3S engine because of the weight considerations.

5M engines & 7M engines

This story can be made very short. This is everything but an upgrade. The 5M engine came from the Celica Supra, also named the Mk2 Supra. The 7M engine is MA7 native, so not a real engine upgrade either ;)

1JZ engines

The 1JZ engine came in various flavors as well, like the 1JZ-FE and the 1JZ-GTE. The 'F' in Toyota terms stands for 'fuel economy' or something, the 'E' stands for 'Electronic Injection' as opposed to carbureted engines. The "G" stands for sportier engines, which is determined by the angle and size of the valves. The 'F' engines have smaller valves and the 'G' engine has bigger valves. To make a long story short, stay away from FE engines as long as you can and always go for 'G' engines.

The widest spread 1JZ engine is for sure the 1JZ-GTE. This engine came in various models, of which the JZA-7 car is the most known. The car has the same body (and looks) as the MA7, and was only available in the Japanese market. As you might know, in Japan they don't drive on the right side of the road (but the wrong side) and thus they have the steering wheel on the right hand side (RHD). This results in having the ECU on the left hand side. Now if you take a peek in your engine bay, you see the engine harness (engine wires) run from the left hand side from the engine towards the firewall and then go into the car to the ECU. You can imagine the wiring harness is considerably shorter on right hand driven vehicles than on LHD.

The 1JZ-GTE engine came with a true twin turbo setup (1 turbo driven by 3 cylinders, in contrast to a sequential twin turbo setup, or just a single turbo setup). The engine is in stock condition good for 280 hp at the crank. As the stroke is rather small (71.5 mm) the piston speed is quite low. This results in a very smooth running engine, which can have the red line moved up quite high, with the right precautions (better valve springs).

As the 1JZ-GTE came in a body quite comparable to the MA7 (JZA7 body), we can consider this engine to be suitable to be placed in our MA7 body. Let's continue with the next.

1JZ-FE 200 hp @ 6000 rpm

250 Nm @ 3800 rpm 86 x 71.5 mm, 11 bar compression

1JZ-GE 180 hp @ 6000 rpm

235 Nm @ 4800 rpm 86 x 71.5 mm, 10 bar compression

1JZ-GTE 280 hp @ 6200 rpm

362 Nm @ 4800 rpm 86 x 71.5 mm, 8.5 bar compression

1JZ-FSE VVTi (Direct injection) 200 hp @ 6000 rpm

250 Nm @ 3800 rpm 

1JZ-GE VVTi 200 hp @ 6000 rpm

255 Nm @ 4000 rpm 

1JZ-GTE VVTi 280 hp @ 6200 rpm

378 Nm @ 2400 rpm 

1G engines

The 1G engine is a 2 liter displacement six piston engine. The engine is quite common in the 'FE' variety, where it found it's way to the Lexus IS200 cars (1G-FE VVTi, these cars came with the 3S engines as well, but this is the 4 piston 2 liter engine with a much lower torque). If you take a look down here in the overview of horsepower and torque specifications, we agree that this engine is not much of an upgrade either.

1G-FE 135 hp @ 5600 rpm

173 Nm @ 4400 rpm 75 x 75 mm, 9.6 bar compression

1G-GE 150 hp @ 6200 rpm

182 Nm @ 5600 rpm 75 x 75 mm, 9.5 bar compression

1G-GZE 168 hp @ 6000 rpm

226 Nm @ 3600 rpm 75 x 75 mm, 8 bar compression

1G-GTE 210 hp @ 6200 rpm

275 Nm @ 3800 rpm 75 x 75 mm, 8 bar compression

1G-FE VVTi 160 hp @ 6200 rpm

200 Nm @ 4400 rpm 75 x 75 mm, 10 bar compression

2JZ engines

The 2JZ engine is considered as one of the best power plants available as of today. The engine came in various cars of which the twin turbo mk IV Supra is one of the best known. Other cars you find this engine in are the IS300 and GS300, which are equipped with the GE version with variable valve timing VVTi.

As the 2JZ engine is very closely related to the 1JZ engine (same family) it shouldn't be much of a problem to drop this engine in the MA7 body, as the 1JZ engine does fit as well (Toyota proved this).

2JZ-FE 220 hp @ 5600 rpm

294 Nm @ 3600 rpm 86 x 86 mm, 11.3 bar compression

2JZ-GTE 320 hp @ 5800 rpm

427 Nm @ 3600 rpm 86 x 86 mm, 8.5 bar compression

2JZ-FSE VVTi 220 hp @ 5600 rpm

294 Nm @ 3600 rpm 86 x 86 mm

2JZ-GE VVTi 220 hp @ 5800 rpm

298 Nm @ 3800 rpm 86 x 86 mm

2JZ-GTE VVTi 280 hp @ 5600 rpm (limited)

454 Nm @ 3600 rpm 86 x 86 mm, 8.5 bar compression

UZ engines

The UZ family of engines are V8 engines to be found in the Lexus LS400 and LS430. These engines are heavy and deliver around 300 hp. Although it would be nice to drop in a V8 into the Supra body, it is not a real upgrade. The engines only came in the "FE" flavor, having the valves on a small angle resulting in less power. Currently I don't find it of any interest to further research the possibility of dropping this engine into the MA7 body, although I know the HKS drag supra uses this engine in a highly modified form delivering over 1800 hp!!!! I assume you are about USD 80k lighter when you want to go that far ;) For what I have seen, the fly plate doesn't bolt up directly to the transmission so it can be quite a problem to drop this in.

Let's resume

So we have two real options from the above sheet to use for a real engine upgrade, namely the 1JZ-GTE engine which came only as a right hand drive model and the 2JZ-GTE engine which came as both a LHD and RHD model.

What is needed for a JZ-GTE engine swap

To mount the JZ engine into your MA7 body you need to consider a few points. Let's go over these:

Motor mounts

As you might know, the Mk3 Supra got a body restyle somewhere in 1988 / 1989. In that time not only the body was restyled (other rear spoiler and other front nose) but some engine internals where changed as well. The engine came with 2 extra horse powers due to some redesign in the turbo waste gate. The engine mounts where changed from the square solid rubber ones, to round 'fluid filled' mounts. Due to this redesign in engine mounts, the cross member was changed as well. This all came with the introduction of the Japanese spec JZA70, having the 1JZ-GTE engine aboard. To make a story short: If you have a 'new model' mk3 supra, you can use your round fluid filled motor mounts to mount the 1JZ engine to the MA7 body. If you don't have a late model mk3 supra, you need to buy a cross member of the late model and buy the two fluid filled motor mounts. If you replace this all in your car you are done. The engine can be mounted.

Transmission

With the transmission we have a solution for both options, manual and automatic. First of all to make one thing clear: the bell housing of your 7M transmission does not bolt up to the JZ engines. None of the bolts are at the same location on the 7M as on the JZ engines, so you can surely forget about that. To make things even worse, the starter motor is on a different position and the starter gear would shoot straight through your M bell housing. The best solution for this would be making use of a bell housing that bolts straight to the JZ engine on the one side and has the same perfect fit on the other side for your transmission. For automatic transmission these bell housings can easily be bought. Such a bell housing is for example the bell housing from an automatic MkIV Supra, or any other auto 2JZ-GE (or GTE) equipped vehicle, like the GS300. These cars all came with the A340E transmission, so if you use that bell housing you're done.

When you are able to bolt up the auto tranny to the engine, you still need to connect the torque converter to the fly plate. It is not possible to connect your 7M fly plate to the crank of the 2JZ, as the 7M fly plate uses 6 bolts here and the 2JZ fly plate uses 8 bolts. I haven't looked into this for the 1JZ engine, but I assume all JZ engines use 8 bolts at the crank. So we need to find a way to fit the JZ fly plate to the M torque converter. For what I have seen they both use 6 bolts but I don't know for sure if these bolts are in the same pattern (same diameter). I have to look further into this for my own upgrade, as I am driving an auto and I wish to stay with it. If anyone can give me the bolt circle diameter on the fly plate I would greatly appreciate it! Please send me the info by email.

Now for the manual transmission. There are not many cars that came with the JZ engine and the same manual transmission as the MA7, namely the R154. This five speed manual was only put in the Mk3 Supra, but to make you not too disappointed, the manual box came with the 1JZ-GTE equipped supra as well! So to get your manual tranny bolted to the JZ engine, you need the bell housing off the JZA70 car. This bell housing can hardly be found on any wreck yard. While the JZA70 cars are quite scarce, the manual cars delivered by Toyota can be counted on one hand! So you need to buy this piece of aluminum new from Toyota. I doubt if JayMarks is able to deliver you this piece, but I can. The Toyota parts number is: 31111-14111 (Housing, Clutch). See if you can find it yourself, if not contact me. The price for this piece is somewhere around 400 USD or so!!!! Yes people, for a piece of metal.

For the clutch you can use the regular Toyota clutch or drop in the HKS twin plate. It's all up to you. Just see what you burn out and then replace it!

More thoughts on Transmission

Why not drop in the Twin Turbo 6 speed

Dropping in the 6 speed is quite ambitious project, but I have heard it is done. First of all, the 6 speed does not fit. The transmission tunnel is not big enough for the V160 transmission to fit in. So you need a big hammer and hammer out the tunnel. Furthermore the end gear ratio of the V160 transmission is very different compared to the R154. Where the end gear on the Mk3 is generally G305 (3.727) the end gear ratio on the MkIV manual is normally 3.133. So if you would put this transmission into your car you would be slipping the tires very much and go through your gears way faster. Besides the gear ratio's, you must consider the driveshaft as well. Where the driveshaft of the Mk3 is a 'slide in' connection, the MkIV makes use of a 'bolt on' connection. A custom driveshaft seems to be necessairy, or another option is taking the differential with you as well! This all would stretch the story too much and I'm not going any deeper into the 6 speed, one last thing to be said: The ABS computer gets its rear spead pulses from the speed sensor bolted to the transmission, it's quite obvious you will either loose the ABS functionality or you have to place some other kind of rear speed sensors on the rear wheels in order to fix this.

Why not drop in the A340E of the Twin Turbo

Good question! First of all for the people who don't understand this question: The A340E automatic transmission of the 2JZ-GTE is not the same as the A340E transmission of the 7M-GTE. (Hence the name I would say ;)

First of all there are minor differences like fluid usage; while the M series auto trannies use the same as the 2JZ-GE auto tranny (ATF Dexron II), the A340E transmission of the 2JZ-GTE uses ATF Type T-II, and one liter more (in total 8.2 liter).

Then the torque converter of the 2JZ-GTE is different; the stall torque ratio of the 2JZ-GE auto tranny is 1.9, the 2JZ-GTE is 2.0 and the 7M-GTE uses 2.1. Furthermore the 2JZ-GTE automatic transmission uses one more disc for the forward clutch (C1), namely 7 instead of 6.

So all together a little difference between the auto tranny of the 2JZ and the auto tranny of the M series. Let's see what the end gear ratio is, for the M series we have the end gear ratio the same as the manual; 3.727. For the JZ series we have an end gear ratio of 3.769. Wow, nearly a perfect fit. A little difference but not all too bad I would say.

Main questions to be answered will be: How are you going to fix the speed sensor for the ABS? How about the driveshaft, is it a bolt on or slide in? For what I have seen on the EPC program, I think the driveshaft is bolt on, just like the manual, but I could be wrong. As I'm going with the auto tranny on my 2JZ I tell you my considerations: I can upgrade my auto tranny to withstand 600 RWHP for less than 600 USD. So why would you bother using the auto tranny of the mkIV when you hear all this?

I've heard the MkIV came with a five speed, Can we use this?

You've heard it right, the MkIV came with a five speed in the non turbo models, similar to the five speed used in the non turbo models for the M series, except for some improvements to make the shifts shorter. The gearbox has the same ratios for all speeds, the end ratio is different though. For the M non turbo we have an end ratio of 4.300 and for the JZ model we have an end ratio of 4.272. Not very much of a difference but still worth the consideration. So your question: Can we use it or not? Answer: I think the best solution in order to save money is going with the W58 transmission of the MA7 and use the bell housing of the 2JZ-GE manual. You will certainly toast your transmission some day. The W58 is not a strong transmission and the more stress you put on it, the earlier it will pop! But you will be driving and have fun, while others will be waiting for their R154 bellhousing. So a good temporal solution is dropping in this cheap transmission and focus on the rest of the engine (like wiring the stuff up). Then hit the road and wait for your bell housing to show up. When it does, you can always drop in the stronger R154 transmission. Good advice?

More thoughts on Engines

The 1JZ engine is RHD only, how do I get the wire loom in my LHD vehicle?

Very good question! The answer is difficult, but to make it short: You need to be fairly good at using a soldering device. The thing is, all wires need to be extended to reach the computer which needs to be mounted in the original location. If you don't want to do this, you should ask yourself the question if you want the 1JZ anyways. This comes with the job and needs to be done, period. I don't see putting the computer somewhere under the steering wheel or so as a good solution!

Where can I learn more about the 1JZ-GTE engine? What about performance upgrades?

People, you really got me by the balls now. I don't know any good site about upgrading the 1JZ engine in stages. Yes, an air filter, an exhaust, a boost controller. But then what? To satisfy your needs, I need at least 20 emails from people who want this and then I'll make you a special document with everything I know about the 1JZ upgrades. And people, trust me, I know a lot about it. So if you want information, let your voice be heard down here in the comments forum or send me an email.

I can buy a cheap Jap spec 2JZ-GTE, should I do it? What's the difference with other engines?

Good question, again. There are various differences between all the 2JZ engines around. The biggest difference is between the Japanese specifications engine and the engine to be exported. These differences are:

General 2JZ-GTE engines have 320 hp Japanese spec 2JZ-GTE engines are limited to 280 hp by waste gate restrictions. This can be solved with a boost controller

General 2JZ-GTE engines have steel blades Japanese spec 2JZ-GTE engines have ceramic turbo blades. These tend to spool quicker but give you less top end performance

General 2JZ-GTE engines have 550cc injectors low impedance (resistor pack required) Japanese spec 2JZ-GTE engines have 430cc high impedance (no resistor pack) This is generally good for 18 PSI of boost

General 2JZ-GTE engines have a Mass Air Flow sensor Japanese spec 2JZ-GTE engines have a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor

Furthermore I can come up with 20 other differences, including cam overlap and lift and such. So what does this mean for you? Depends on what you want. The Jap spec engine is a good performer and it's generally speaking easier to get a Jap spec engine for cheap than a LHD model for cheap. Furthermore the MAP sensor is a nice gadget, in return for the 430cc injectors which can be upgraded without a problem though. Generally speaking 'all' upgrades for export models are applicable to the Jap spec cars as well.

I can get a cheap RHD engine, can I fit the LHD wiring loom?

Yes you can. Make sure you order the right wiring loom, as there are really PLENTY of possibilities. These are the wiring looms I know, if you have anything to add to this list, please be so polite.

82121-1B010 9305-9311 LHD, 5F

82121-1B040 9311-9408 LHD, 5F

82121-14780 9305-9311 RHD, 5F

82121-14781 9311-9408 RHD, 5F

82121-1B041 9408- 5F

82121-14880 9305-9408 LHD, 6F

82121-14881 9408- LHD, 6F

82121-14820 9305-9408 RHD, 6F

82121-14890 9305-9408 LHD, ATM

82121-14891 9408- LHD, ATM (European)

82121-14830 9305-9408 RHD, ATM

82121-14831 9408- RHD, ATM

82121-14821 9408- RHD, MTM

82121-1B020 9408- ATM, Gluf Corporation Council

So in general, please check the year of the engine, and if it's a 5 speed (NA), 6 speed or Automatic. A note for people converting a Japanese specification engine to LHD, the wiring loom is a good 'start' but you will certainly need to make it customized a little.

I live in Country XX, Am I street legal and do I pass emissions?

Another good question! And the answer: I don't know. If you're living in Holland the general rule of the thumb is: When you change the number of pistons, you need to have a new 'type goedkeuring'  for your car. This is a check if the car is still ok, like not too much weight in the nose and the brakes are proportional to the engine power. If you don't change the number of pistons you're generally speaking ok. If you live in Belgium for example, you're screwed. These kind of modifications are not allowed in Belgium. If you live in California, you have to see if you pass emission tests, but this is generally speaking not a real problem with the 2JZ. Another thing is 'visual inspectation' but a normal test agent doesn't understand heck of what engine is in what car, so this should not be a problem. In short: Check with your local authorities before you do such an upgrade.

I can much easier get a 2JZ-GE engine than any turbo charged engine. I was already planning on upgrading the turbo's, so this seems to be a good option. Do you agree?

In some contrast I do agree in some I don't. First of all, the GTE engines and GE engines are about the same price from a wreck yard, so if you buy a GTE engine you got the turbos for free, which in turn you can sell to anyone else when you do the upgrade. If you are going to do a turbo upgrade on the GE engine, you need to lower compression by for example fitting in a 3 mm MHG. This is all quite some work, time and money and it's better to go with the GTE engine anyways. It's all your own decision of course, but going with the GTE is easier and you have other gadgets for free, like the oil nozzles that are not in the GE engine.

Note that all the turbo upgrades designed for the GTE engine do NOT fit the GE engines. On the GE engines, the exhaust ports are different. So any manifold for the GTE does not bolt up to the GE. You need special designed manifolds for doing a turbo upgrade on the GE engine. Note it is possible to replace the intake surge tank of the GE. This will prevent the intake charge from running over the hot turbo, although you might consider this to do on a later stage, as the GE engine has the same idea of the M engine so maybe you can still use your intercooler hard pipe set.

Hope this all gives you a good indication and 'view' about what is possible with the JZ engines in the MA body. If you have any questions please fill in the forum below and I will answer them promptly. If you have any suggestions, view, opinions, flames whatever, just type them as well. Any input is greatly appreciated.

 

does this explain the engine mounting problems? two different versions of the Supra engine, one with 6 bolt mounting and newer one with 8 bolts.

[Monster-Mat]

kind off.........

what about my aircon questions mark.........

[Bazza-old]

c`mon mat

whats the latest

is it going to be running soon ???

were all waiting in anticipation

[Monster-Mat]

so i had the choice, order a rubber pipe....or this

a new top hose, made out of metal.....yes yes yes i know its shiney, its all they had

[TonyGoose]

so i had the choice, order a rubber pipe....or this

a new top hose, made out of metal.....yes yes yes i know its shiney, its all they had

Bling Bling :D :shutit:

[Monster-Mat]

well more progress has been made, ive contacted Mark today, so im sure it wont be long before he's around telling you exactlly whats been done this past 2 weeks, and some more splendid pictures hopefully

[Scorpion]

supracharge-is340(stated on his sig)

NO BLING BLING ON MY CAR HOMEBOY EVERY PART HAS A PURPOSE, AND ITS NOT TO JUST SPARKLE

Whats that then