Average Speed Camera On Southbound M3/m25 Junction

[Mr Pants!]

I think I am going to receive a NOIP in the next 14 days, or more possibly now there is a postal strike on!

:(

It is rediculous, I drive around in an RX400h, very rarely pass 80mph on the motorways, very careful driver. There I am on a Saturday afternoon, driving off the M25 on to the M3, went through the first set of average cameras on the slip road, doing 45 mph in the 50mph limit, I was chatting to my friend I just picked up from Heathrow about her holiday. Hardly any traffic on the road, no signs of any road work men at all, as I was getting near the end of the road works I started to accelerate and move to the middle lane settled at 75mph and then bang, just realised I was still in the average speed limit as I passed under the second set of cameras!

I used to be in the police a while back and did a fair amount of speed enforcement, stopping true road hooligans, youngsters thinking they were on a rally track, business men in big cars doing double the speed limits and totally flaunting the law. Where do us normal, careful drivers fit into that category.

It really aggrevates me that someone like myself who is 99% careful, makes a small mistake, a simple mis-judgement or lack of concentration and you are done, without common sense or and human interaction at all.

Total revenue driven nonsense!

Soap box packed away.

Bottom line I was speeding, not a danger to anyone, but I was speeding, so I guess I have to take it on the chin! :(

[MacRS200]

Were you in the same lane when you passed the last 2 cameras? Sounds like you changed before the last camera

Also if you were doing an indicated 45 (probably nearer an actual 40) and only speeded up for the last short part to around 70 it is likely the average speed would be recorded at 50 or less.

Good luck anyway mate :D

[sparkystav]

The average speed cameras, theres normally a few in a row but only a couple will actually work so you may have got away with it.

Have to wait and see matey.

Stav

[WylieCoyote]

Gutted for you matey. The wait is horrible whilst you're waiting for the NIP. When it lands on your mat you just feel sick. I'm in full agreement with what you say. People who drive safely and responsibly 99.9% of the time are always the ones that get screwed by the cameras because they make the odd mistake and are just unlucky enough for there to be a camera when it happens. People who are a genuine danger on the roads never get caught because they're all too clever. They know where the cameras are, they have devices that tell them which ones work and so on, it makes me mad. What I've always thought is that for a first minor offence (say for example doing 60mph in a 50 zone or whatever (ACPO guidelines are 10% + 2 last time I checked) you should just be given a warning. If then you get caught again, then you get hammered by a big fine and 6 points or something like that. Surely that would work far better as a deterrent. OK I admit 75mph in a 50 is excessive, 75 is exceeding the national speed limit in itself (yes, we all do I know) and if you were fully concentrating on the road you would have realised what you were doing and that it was in the middle of the cameras. Still, everyone makes mistakes so don't beat yourself up about it.

Speed cameras aren't there to make money (I know there'll be a lot of people who disagree). The fact is, if you've been caught, you'll be more careful in future and isn't that proof that the speed camera has done it's job? It's made you a more careful driver than you were before.

There, you can have your soap box back now!

It's horrible when it happens, but you accept it and move on. Don't let it ruin your day, it's not worth it.

Keith

[Mr Pants!]

Thanks guys...

I always felt when I was doing speed enforcement, I was making a difference, educating people and having common sense in the job I was doing. I assessed the danger the persons driving was to the conditions of the road and if I felt that someone was in excess of the speed limit, I would use the laser to record their speed and act appropriately. Where as a camera does click away at 10% plus 2mph, no questions asked.

One thing that we had to get 100% right in court was to "Form the opinion the vehicle was speeding" before we track the speed! We also had to prove that in court that we formed the opinion before we were even allowed to lift the laser gun to our shoulder. This has to be written on the ticket and evidenced.

Yet these civilians who sit in the back of a speed camera van, and most are civilians, have exactly the same laser LTi20.20 device, on a tripod with a camera bolted to the side and just sit there clicking away at every driver who comes into sight, processing anything up to 50 cars an hour in some hot spots! You do the maths!!

So I argue that where do they form the opinion the vehicle was speeding? On what basis do they feel that there was a genuine reason to record the speed of the vehicles they trap when looking through a small window out of the back of a van.

Sorry Keith, but I do feel that it is revenue driven and is not promoting road safety at all. The government have already said that none the funds will be going to the councils any longer, you watch how the camera vans drop off all of a sudden.

I feel getting more police out there doing the job I did is promoting road safety, educating drivers and giving us all a safer driving environment.

I stopped so many people with no insurance, over the prescribed drink/drive limit, stolen vehicles, laser jammers, vehicles containing stolen goods, illegal tyres, no tax, using mobile phones, driving dangerously, failure to have their vehicles under proper control, you name it, where does a speed camera offer any where near that sort of pro-active policing or road safety??

Like you say though at the end of the day, I will have to take it, I was wrong and should know better. Just feel miffed that it is so black & white..... :(

[WylieCoyote]

Thanks guys...

I always felt when I was doing speed enforcement, I was making a difference, educating people and having common sense in the job I was doing. I assessed the danger the persons driving was to the conditions of the road and if I felt that someone was in excess of the speed limit, I would use the laser to record their speed and act appropriately. Where as a camera does click away at 10% plus 2mph, no questions asked.

One thing that we had to get 100% right in court was to "Form the opinion the vehicle was speeding" before we track the speed! We also had to prove that in court that we formed the opinion before we were even allowed to lift the laser gun to our shoulder. This has to be written on the ticket and evidenced.

Yet these civilians who sit in the back of a speed camera van, and most are civilians, have exactly the same laser LTi20.20 device, on a tripod with a camera bolted to the side and just sit there clicking away at every driver who comes into sight, processing anything up to 50 cars an hour in some hot spots! You do the maths!!

So I argue that where do they form the opinion the vehicle was speeding? On what basis do they feel that there was a genuine reason to record the speed of the vehicles they trap when looking through a small window out of the back of a van.

Sorry Keith, but I do feel that it is revenue driven and is not promoting road safety at all. The government have already said that none the funds will be going to the councils any longer, you watch how the camera vans drop off all of a sudden.

I feel getting more police out there doing the job I did is promoting road safety, educating drivers and giving us all a safer driving environment.

I stopped so many people with no insurance, over the prescribed drink/drive limit, stolen vehicles, laser jammers, vehicles containing stolen goods, illegal tyres, no tax, using mobile phones, driving dangerously, failure to have their vehicles under proper control, you name it, where does a speed camera offer any where near that sort of pro-active policing or road safety??

Like you say though at the end of the day, I will have to take it, I was wrong and should know better. Just feel miffed that it is so black & white..... :(

The little Hitlers that sit in the back of those vans are basically just getting paid for doing bugger all work. No, it's wrong that it's so black and white, things rarely are. A car being driven at 37mph in a 30 zone safely and carefully is a billion times better than a car driving at 25mph in the same area by a pillock. That's the kind of thing that the speed camera just can't think for itself about and makes things very unfair. A high-vis panda round the streets or a jam sandwich on the motorway is a thousand times more effective at slowing traffic down more consistently than a camera but there just isn't the resources to do that. Until such a time comes where the police has the money to put loads of cars and officers out, a camera is the next best thing.

You say it's revenue driven, maybe so but there is no denying that the cameras (particularly specs) slow people down. Surely some enforcement is better than no enforcement at all?

I think if the public knew just how many cars are on the road that are either unsafe, uninsured, not taxed, being driven by a driver under the influence or used for criminal purposes it would genuinely shock most people. For that you need officers, for officers you need money and so on yada yada yada.

Keith

[Mr Pants!]

You say it's revenue driven, maybe so but there is no denying that the cameras (particularly specs) slow people down. Surely some enforcement is better than no enforcement at all?

Agreed....

To be honest it is scary how the government are funding the police. I was a Special for a little under 3 years with the view to go permi one day, give up IT and go out there and make a difference! After what I saw, I decided against it and will stick with the IT industry.

You will be seeing a lot more PCSOs with no powers other than basic detaining powers where they are not allowed to use force, less police, more cameras... Its just crazy! Scary as hell in fact....

I just wish they would simplify processes, lower the amount of paper work and put more police on the streets. Funny isn't it, to improve the amount of police on the streets costs the government money and gives a better public service, to add more cameras and lower paid PCSOs makes them money and gives less of a public service.... Wonder what we will see more of over time.? lol

[peter026]

I went through there Sat pm as well, about 2 - 2.30, noticed the cameras and signs, so stayed at 50, but a fair few cars went by me at a fair rate of knots

[Ryo]

i go thru the average cameras on the m1 between junction 10 and 6A, yeah us northerners do go that far south :) at 11pm to 12am, and you would be amazed how many people just brake at the first one, accelerate all the way through the roadworks at 60 to 70 mph then brake at the last camera.(do they know something i don't) (i think i needs to find out how these things work.)

up in sheffield the last camera in the row has a light , a very bright light attached, is this to take the pics of the faces? and if so is it just the first and last cameras that take pics,

like i said i think i needs to know how they work...

read how they work,, oops i think im screwed aswell :)

[TigerFish]

i go thru the average cameras on the m1 between junction 10 and 6A, yeah us northerners do go that far south :) at 11pm to 12am, and you would be amazed how many people just brake at the first one, accelerate all the way through the roadworks at 60 to 70 mph then brake at the last camera.(do they know something i don't) (i think i needs to find out how these things work.)

up in sheffield the last camera in the row has a light , a very bright light attached, is this to take the pics of the faces? and if so is it just the first and last cameras that take pics,

like i said i think i needs to know how they work...

read how they work,, oops i think im screwed aswell :)

Those cameras don't take a picture of you, they just read number plates from one to the other and work out your speed as you pass. There are stories that you have to be in the same lane as you pass each one but there are equally as many that say you don't, and that only certain ones track the plates, but again just as many that say they all do.

I go through the same stretch of the M1 at about the same time of night as you on a Thursday going north, and a Monday going south. I'm convinced the things just don't work because of how many people fly through there, but I'm not about to try it myself having 6 points at the moment on my license. I can't believe there would be that many people getting caught in them everyday. The thing that makes me laugh about the whole setup, is that it used to be 40mph through there, and there were so many crashes that they put it up to 50. There still seems to be more accidents through there now than there ever used to be so I'm not sure what they are meant to be achieving.

I don't really get folk that complain about being one of the "careful" people being caught, if you speed, you aint being careful so just take it on the chin. The muppets on the road that use it as a rally track will get what is coming to them at some point, they can't stay lucky forever. Whether you are an occasional or a consistant speeder, you are flauting the rules and riding your luck, luck runs out sooner or later. If someone drove at 50 just once past a school and killed a kiddie, they don't deserve any special treatment IMO just because they had never done it before. FWIW, I suspect you will not hear anything anyway.

[Mr Pants!]

I don't really get folk that complain about being one of the "careful" people being caught, if you speed, you aint being careful so just take it on the chin. The muppets on the road that use it as a rally track will get what is coming to them at some point, they can't stay lucky forever. Whether you are an occasional or a consistant speeder, you are flauting the rules and riding your luck, luck runs out sooner or later. If someone drove at 50 just once past a school and killed a kiddie, they don't deserve any special treatment IMO just because they had never done it before. FWIW, I suspect you will not hear anything anyway.

I totally agree with what you are saying, especially about the school bit. I am not trying to say I am innocent, as I am not, I was speeding. The point I am making is I made a mistake I did not flaunt the law and think to myself I know there is a speed limit here, but stuff that I am going to speed. I accelerated on an open motorway with minimum traffic, no road work men and a few cones on the hard shoulder to 75mph, which is a standard motorway speed for me as I am sure my real speed was 70mph and I completely forgot I was still in the average speed limit. So I felt it was a small lack of concentration and a stupid mistake, all humans make mistakes. Now if there were human interaction involved, this could be taken into account, the conditions, the driver, his track record. But no, its just snap, £60, 3 points done... Now if I were speeding past a school, then I deserve every bit of what would be coming to me, no arguments there. I feel there is a distinct difference between passing a school at 50mph and doing 70mph on a 3 lane open stretch of motorway with very little traffic and no road work men.

Do you know since all these cameras have come about, near on 9% of the country is now on the verge of a ban!!!

I just feel it is a little unfair thats all.

Like you say though, I was speeding and I will take it on the chin. If I were a danger to anyone, that remains open to debate!

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Feel it for you mate!! Good luck!!

There's now string of these between Huntingdon and Cambridge on the A14. I know that stretch better then the back of my hand, and have occcasionally accidentally just crept above 70, but my Lex says 74 when I'm actually doing 70, so I'm normally within margins...

'owever, I use the Cruise whereever possible. My next will have radar/ACC type cruise - it's the way to go!!

Good luck...remember - if you get it after 2 weeks (?) you might have forgotten who was driving - that's what the law says if I remember

[Mr Pants!]

NOIP has to be sent out within 14 days, unless there is a postal strike! Which is just my luck.

I would not go down the route of arguing over who was driving now as there is a possible 6point penalty to be had there!

I will take it, hey whats 3 points....

Perhaps I will get myself one of those Radar things.

[Ryo]

i think on the issue of the motor way camera, as i noticed last night, , you can all be ploddin along at 50 mph, granted in london there are men working 24 hours a day , so obviously the speed limit is there to protect them mainly, any whoo, were all plodding on and some (CZ) check (i know i cant spell) 40 footer came sreamin past us all doing 70 all the way thro, dont think he will get some will he ?

the amount of foreign artic that dont slow down as they think they cant get cought it stupid