Rx400 Buyers Tips

[Unity]

Hi,

I'm currently looking at buying a used Rx400h, most likely a mid to late 2005 model SE Navigator or SE-L. Whilst I'm not a bad judge of standard mechanicals, the hybrid drive system throws up all sorts of questions and it's hard to know what to look for on a test drive to check it is working properly!

I'd find it really useful if Rx400 owners could post any comments they have on :

a) Checking the hybrid drive system on a test drive

b) If I should be concerned about cars with more that ~50-60k mileage

c) Any other useful tips concerning buying a used Rx400

I had a test drive in a dealers new demonstrator car recently and thought it was great. However, I know that this is the latest revision of the car so any views on how that one differs to a 2005 car would be gratefully received (I realise the Sat Nav system / screen is different in the new one).

Thanks for you help.

[lfoggy]

I've got a RX400h and can confirm its a lovely and very civilized car to own and run. I've not heard of any reliability issues so far either. May be worth looking for info on buying a used Toyota Prius as these have been around for a long time and have a very similar hybrid system. I know one of the car magazines has done an article about buying high milage examples recently.....can't remember which magazine though.

Also worth remembering that the vehicle's high voltage Battery and hybrid components is covered by a five year warranty.

Hope you find a good car !

[Unity]

Thanks for the reply Ifoggy.

Going through the brochure it seems that the hybrid warranty covers up to 5 years or 60k miles, whichever comes first. Which is why I'm curious about how much the Battery wears out in later life. There's a number of used ones about that have 55-65k so are either out of warranty for the hybrid drive or soon will be. Having said that I'll most likely get one through Lexus Approved used so will get a 1 year warranty anyway.

If the name of that magazine that did that article comes back to you I'd be very interested to know which one!

[Boxbrownie]

I saw that article myself.......it also had info on taxis in Japan that have been running Prius up to and over 150K with no problems or even reduction in hybrid performance! Damned if I can remember the mag though....sorry.

Best regards David

[Damer]

I am getting a RX400h for a 24 hr test drive on Saturday, be interesting to see how it compares to my current RX. Will let you know.

[Unity]

Sounds good Damer. Please do feed back your experience with it and if possible the mpg's that you get with different types of driving.

[jbanfie]

Also,

In the USA Lexus warrant the hybrid system for 7 or 8 years, I can't remember but it's certainly more than 5, check www.lexus.com, rather than .co.uk

Assuming we have the same Battery, then they are a bit more confident in it than just the 5 years warranty they can get away with giving us.

Cheers

Jon

[Damer]

Sounds good Damer. Please do feed back your experience with it and if possible the mpg's that you get with different types of driving.

MPG is what I am most interested in. My RX is sometimes as low as 16/17 mpg around town Be interested to see how the RXh compares. Also whether there is any difference not having the trick suspension.

[lfoggy]

I've done 3500 miles in mine now from new and have averaged 30.2mpg over this distance. My driving style is fairly smooth and sedate but not obsessively economical! Its best on A roads at 50 - 65 mph where I can get 32-33 mpg. Around town it is also very good getting up to 30mpg. On the motorway at 80 - 90mph its running exclusively on the engine and only does about 25 mpg (or less). The really unusual thing about the car is that it is very economical in slow town driving especially if you drive to maximise the regenerative braking and electric motor use. Also very nice to sit in stationary traffic with the engine off not having to think about all that fuel that an idling engine is pointlessly burning.

It has been said before but the great feature of the car is that it is relatively economical when driven sedately but there is power available for more spirited use if you feel the need.

[Damer]

Well I have had the RXh on test drive for a day. Opinions.

It feels much "tighter" than my RX and the gear box is much smoother. It is quite earie starting it, and being almost silent at low speed freaked out my wife, worried it wouldn't be heard by kids on the school run.

The screen is showing average MPG at 32, much better than my RX which shows about 18 for the same kind of journey.

Sat Nav screen much brighter and clearer, great sound from the stereo, I like the energy screen. It feels quicker.

However I just don't think it is different enough from my RX to justify buying one. It doesn't have the air suspension, so actually looks and feels higher than mine. As the batteries are under the back seat my 5 year old found it harder to climb into her booster in the back. And the torque steer! Something I have never experienced in my RX. Quite un nerving when you are not used or expecting it. Sounds like tram as you come to a stop.

All in all I love the technology, if I was looking for an RX for the first time now I would go for a Hybrid. However already having one I cannot justify the extra £10k premium you are paying.

I am fortunate work pays for my fuel so I can live with 17/18 MPG, afraid it looks like my next Premium SUV will be a Porsche, or the next gen RX.

[Unity]

Thanks Damer.

Yes, I found it quite weird at first but got used to it after one day (I had a 24h test drive). However, when I got back in my A4 I felt like my eardrums had exploded!

I'm not sure if there are big differences between cars but I didn't find the brakes noisy on the demonstrator I had, just a slight whine. I must admit I didn't experience the torque steer because I didn't really hammer it about at all. I regret that I didn't try that now. I'll have to have another go and check it out before I buy.

I reckon I'll stick with the hybrid idea as my commute is virtually all stop-start urban so I'd be suprised if I even got 18mpg on a journey like that (with a non-hybrid).

As for 5 year olds... mine loved the car and has been hassling me ever since to get one. He liked the good/high view of the dash and windscreen and is certainly not opposed to a bit of clambering about to get onto a booster. In fact he does it all the time. :)

Thanks for the feedback.

[ihpj]

Hi Mate,

You might find my post of the following an interesting read:

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...mp;#entry466928

[Rob]

if you ever plan on not driving the car for more than a few weeks - eg holiday etc then u might want to think again as the Battery goes flat and then u cant start the car - its a well known problem.

[Damer]

Unity

Just a point on the torque steer. I didn't hammer it, just put my put down after turning left at some lights, was still below 30 but the sudden rush of power pulled quite a lot to the left.

If I was looking to get my RX now I would get the 400h, I just dont think it is worth changing my car for one.

[Unity]

Thanks Damer for your last point. I was starting to be a bit put off by all this negative stuff (e.g. flat battery's, torque steer and strange noises!).

Happy Rx400er's please feel free to chip in too!

As I see it, if you want a SUV type car with decent performance that's not too big and doesn't put out a ridiculous amount of CO2 whilst doing your urban crawl each day then it seems like the only option.

[lfoggy]

There is a faint whining noise as you slow down which is most audible once you are below 10mph. My understanding is that this is to do with the regernarative braking rather than the hydraulic brakes. I presume it is comes from the electric motos being driven as dynamos by the momentum of the car. I don't find it at all intrusive and regard it as just marking the car out as a little different from ordinary.

All in all a great car for me and the family, purchased after much test driving of all the usual suspects (X5, merc, Range Rover Sport etc). In the end the RX400h won out due to the combination of performance, economy and uniqueness. Also quite a discreet car with none of the social connotations of the competitors.....

[MartyCee]

Hi All, I'm new here - so be gentle!

I looked into this website a few months ago, signed up & watched, got loads of useful information - we've all donw that I guess.

Now I've done it, bought a new RX400h & I thought I'd share some reasons why, & some experiences - so forgive me if this is a bit long.

Reasons:

Compared to a colleague I'm currently getting around 29/30mpg with a tight engine & am sure there's a little more to come, possibly 32/33 as a max, my colleague runs a Range Rover Sport 2.7 TD (not a real Range Rover, a Discovery in a party frock!) & is getting around 24 at best. Now take into account the difference in the fuel prices at the pump & you can see why I made the choice I did - so can my colleague - btw, is his facial colour why this RX is considered "green"?

Build quality & dealer experience (more on the latter in a moment) - based on reports & those for Volvo & Land Rover it was a bit of a "no-brainer" really.

I plan to tow a large caravan (others on here already do it!) & the acceleration figures made for interesting reading too, compared to the competition.

Hybrids are going to be a major force in the market place, with Porsche, VW, Land Rover, Ford, BMW (including solar panel on the roof! - OK 'til you fit a roof box!) all plan to have new Hybrids out by 2012, most will be Diesel Hybrids (Lexus take note before you release the next generation!) & this leads me to think that any Hybrid will be assured a sensible residual value in the next few years (until Hydrogen!).

Any car over 225g on the polution index will start to deprciate much faster over the next handful of years as the Congestion Charge idealogy kicks in with a vengence.

Now experiences:

Good -

The car, everything I expected & more - but you have to read the manuals to get the best out of it & you have to modify your driving a bit to get good fuel figures - like slowing down early & use light braking to maximise the time of recharge to the batteries. That milk float sound becomes nothing more than background noise after a few days - you forget about it.

That smug feeling as you sit in a traffic jam & watch everyone (well those non-Hybrid folk) burning fuel as you sit there in comfort, quiet & with no money going out the tail pipe.

Don't beleive the prices - a new RX400h SE Multimedia can be yours for £38K - I did it, so can you! As I was looking at a one year old with circa 20K on the clock for only £700 less on the screen, with harder bargaining dealer, I consider this a "good deal"

Not so good:

The dealer, Lexus of Oxford, part of the mighty Sytner group.

They wanted the car on their January sales figues, which meant collecting on a Thursday, only 3 days later.

An offer to give them the part-ex ahead of time wasn't good enough, it had to be completed on the last day of the month.

So time was taken off work (unpaid) & arrangements made for the hand over to done indoors as high winds & heavy rainstorms were predicted for the day - a cream interior isn't best for soaky days climbing in & out of a new car as you get to know it.

A "new guy" was left to do the handover - 90% of what we were told by him was WRONG & only referring to the handbook later would get anything to work as it should. - Silly things like "the light for dual on the air con is off for dual & on for solo"....... one or two things maybe, but 90%? No way...

Then the rains came down & the place under cover wasn't available anymore & the whole situation went downhill fast, we were kept hanging around for the paperwork to be finished, despite earlier assurances that we'd already signed everything to save time.

The rush to conclude the deal meant a delay for the transfer of the personal plate from the part-ex.

What do you know.... a friend calls two days later & says "you were batting it bit earlier weren't you?"

My reply was "eh?" - he hadn't seen or had knowledge of the new car - he'd seen my part-ex with my personal plate (no trade plates -he'd have spotted them & they weren't needed the car was taxed) whizzing along a road locally - I checked it out - sure enough ther car was filthy, I'd handed it over super clean - so it had been out & about - that's illegal folks, you "own" a personal plate & it can't be used by anyone else without a written agreement with the DVLA.

My protest was noted, or so I was assured, but, being honest, how do I know? The plate has been transfered now.

Then the post sale paperwork started to flow - everything was on the original registration, everything had to go back & be changed to the personal plate .... why?

Surely things like Lexus breakdown cover & Superguard could have had the personal plate details from day one? It would have saved everyone a lot of extra work.

Now, as a final small little stab, on every new car I've bought there has a been a bunch of flowers for my good lady or something similar.... here we are, a £40K plus car & zilch, nowt, nada, rein, nothing....

OK I pressed for a good deal, but I could ahve got the same pricing through a natioanl Lexus dealer using "What Car" ... I didn't go beyond the figures that market forces would offer anyway.....

Are such small courtesies dead - even at Lexus? My mate with the RR Sport got a flowers, a bottle of Champagne & some Belgian Chocs.....

All I was given was a small plastic box with some breath freshner mints in it & the words "Lexus - Completely Satisfied" & the line from the saleman "we give you these to remind you that these words are what Lexus like to hear when they contact you in a few days to see how the handover went".

Lexus might call - he'd better hope they forget!

So why such a poor hand over, paltry treatment (not just the last bit, the broken promises & poor planning) - I don't know, but having handed over nigh on £40K I was p****d - it ruined what should have been a great day - the day we stepped & took delivery of a lexus.... I had better treatment with a second hand Fiat years ago (the salesman bought me lunch at the pub next door!) - now that's telling!

So in all a great car, no regrets there.... but, sorry guys, Lexus of Oxford have shot themselves in the foot BIG TIME - my partner wants to change her car soon - I suggested a 200 series Lexus - "No Way!" was her response - I'll have another Honda!

So... you want a recommendation? Yes, buy one, buy an RX400h - I doubt you'll regret it ... but you might want to stay away from Oxford for your purchase......

[ihpj]

Compared to a colleague I'm currently getting around 29/30mpg with a tight engine & am sure there's a little more to come, possibly 32/33 as a max, my colleague runs a Range Rover Sport 2.7 TD (not a real Range Rover, a Discovery in a party frock!) & is getting around 24 at best. Now take into account the difference in the fuel prices at the pump & you can see why I made the choice I did...

I plan to tow a large caravan (others on here already do it!) & the acceleration figures made for interesting reading too, compared to the competition.

Please don't think that this is a personal flame or an anti-Lexus post. I quite like the brand and own an RX myself. I find that I loathe the RX 400h and in your circumstances am surprised that you feel that the 400h is the better vehicle when compared to your colleagues Range Rover diesel.

If you plan to tow, then you are towing with, what is in essence, a FWD only vehicle. Sure you have a rear electric motor to power the rear wheels, but that only works when the main Hybrid Battery is charged and able to provide power to the motor. You will very quickly come to realise that you spend more time charging the Hybrid Battery rather than it discharging power. Especially under load, the Hybrid Battery discharges very quickly and when you are towing, will find that you are running on the petrol engine only. You will then get running costs associated with a petrol 3.3L V6 engine. A cost that will again rear its head when you are cruising at 'motorway speeds' - at these speeds you are 100% reliant on your petrol V6 for all of your power.

Then there is the handling. Whether or not you are towing, a vehicle of this size and weight should be AWD all of the time. But it is not. When towing you will always find it beneficial to have 4 driven wheels rather than 2.

So I am amazed to see that you think your RX is better value than your colleagues Range Rover diesel which offer better towing proposition than yours, better MPG on any distance driving and especially towing, better low down torque than yours and remember, the technology you are so proud of in your Hybrid can become obsolete over night the moment Lexus develop ad release the 'next generation' of Hybrids whose batteries can hold charge for longer and provide more power. The diesel engined vehicle will not run this risk and retain value better.

Just my 2p worth.

[Unity]

Thanks for the info MartyCee. Sounds like your big day was rather tarnished by less than perfect service from the dealership.

I must admit that I'm far from impressed by some of the interaction I've had so far (with the Stockp*rt dealership in particular! I don't think I'll be wanting to "pay their wages" by buying a car off them). Having had Audi's for the last 12 years I can't say I've noticed the "step up" in quality of customer service that various surveys point to

You did pretty well on negotiating that price. That is the kind of spec I'm after and a 2.5year old / 40k mile example can be £31k which looks like very poor value compared to your new one!

It will be interesting to know how you get on with towing for the reasons that ihpj has refered to. A big torquey turbodiesel would seem more suited to that particular role but doesn't have the other benefits of the hybrid system (and can feel pretty sluggish in comparison).

[Mr Pants!]

Hi Unity,

I have had an RX400H for about 7months now, over all it is a brilliant car and I am very happy with it.

Slightly negative points:

-Torque steer can catch you when you are off guard (Now I am used to it, its fine and I catch it every time. Only sometimes happens under hard acceleration)

-Noisy brakes (they are, but only when the windows are down, although some of the noise is definitely the elec motors helping to slow the car)

-Squeeky centre arm rest in the back seat (Fixed by leaving it down, which I prefer... ) :)

-The electric lift boot motor restricts the head room for the rear left passenger a little, being 6'4" I sit on the right if in the back.

-on electric drive I have had two padestrians step out in front of me as they could not hear me behind them! (not really a negative, but it could have been if I run them over!)

Positive points:

-I have a very heavy right foot, love the acceleration and power and still managed to get an average of 27mpg!

-Its such a nice car for long journeys with 4 people in it, loads of room and comfort

-Excellent loading space

-sound system is amazing!!!

-looks stylish and cool, already have been a wedding car for a friend!

Personally, again with my height, I would definitely get the one with electric steering column adjuster, the one without the adjustment really was not right for me! I think it was the SR model? Not sure....

In terms of the Battery going flat, yes there is a possiblity over a 3 week holiday, I have left mine for two weeks without an issue. I guess if you have a garage, leave it on trickle charge if you are away.

[Unity]

Useful info Mr P! :) Thanks for the reply.

Since forums tend to have alot of people asking for help they can sometimes seem a bit overly negative. So I'm grateful to hear from a happy owner.

It's good to know that the flat Battery syndrome does not get every car. I must admit that I wouldn't be that happy if I arrived back at the airport after a two week holiday only to be greeted by a long wait for the AA to turn up. I guess that is just down to luck if you get one that does it.

[Mr Pants!]

Useful info Mr P! :) Thanks for the reply.

Since forums tend to have alot of people asking for help they can sometimes seem a bit overly negative. So I'm grateful to hear from a happy owner.

It's good to know that the flat battery syndrome does not get every car. I must admit that I wouldn't be that happy if I arrived back at the airport after a two week holiday only to be greeted by a long wait for the AA to turn up. I guess that is just down to luck if you get one that does it.

I really don't think you will be dissapointed.

I think the main thing is you need to make sure you are buying the car for teh right reasons, I wanted more loading space, comfort for 4 people. I had an IS250 before, really nice, but the loading space and back seat room was terrible, hence the change over, but it had its advantages over the RX, like better looking IMHO and had more feel through the steering wheel.

Another point I did not put in, is the handling of the car. Whilst there is not a lot of feel through the steering wheel and it feels wollowy (Spelling?) round corners, it actual corners and sticks to the road very well indeed. It took me a while to find the confidence at first, but the car is remarkably good! Also I did some practice emergency stops in the wet and dry in the test model (as requested by the sales chap to do), on an open road I slammed on the brakes and took avasive action to avoid an imaginary obstical and the car performed extremely well. I was waiting to see if it had the characteristics of a discovery where you feel like you are about to end up on your roof, but it did'nt! I do appreciate a disco is set up for off roading, so much softer shocks, but being a high up vehicle I wanted to make sure it was safe for the road.

Its like any car Unity, you can always find faults in them. Overall the RX really has a lot more ticks than crosses.

[MartyCee]

Please don't think that this is a personal flame or an anti-Lexus post. I quite like the brand and own an RX myself. I find that I loathe the RX 400h and in your circumstances am surprised that you feel that the 400h is the better vehicle when compared to your colleagues Range Rover diesel.

If you plan to tow, then you are towing with, what is in essence, a FWD only vehicle. Sure you have a rear electric motor to power the rear wheels, but that only works when the main Hybrid Battery is charged and able to provide power to the motor. You will very quickly come to realise that you spend more time charging the Hybrid Battery rather than it discharging power. Especially under load, the Hybrid Battery discharges very quickly and when you are towing, will find that you are running on the petrol engine only. You will then get running costs associated with a petrol 3.3L V6 engine. A cost that will again rear its head when you are cruising at 'motorway speeds' - at these speeds you are 100% reliant on your petrol V6 for all of your power.

Then there is the handling. Whether or not you are towing, a vehicle of this size and weight should be AWD all of the time. But it is not. When towing you will always find it beneficial to have 4 driven wheels rather than 2.

So I am amazed to see that you think your RX is better value than your colleagues Range Rover diesel which offer better towing proposition than yours, better MPG on any distance driving and especially towing, better low down torque than yours and remember, the technology you are so proud of in your Hybrid can become obsolete over night the moment Lexus develop ad release the 'next generation' of Hybrids whose batteries can hold charge for longer and provide more power. The diesel engined vehicle will not run this risk and retain value better.

Just my 2p worth.

Thanks for your comments, I note you have an RX 300 & wonder if you've actually towed with an RX400h?

My towing mileage will only be about 10% of of my annual mileage, so that has to be factored in.

Most car/caravan combinations are FWD only these days - AWD isn't required on road with all the high tech stability systems, off road, on grass at low speeds, this might be an issue, & the RX400h covers that as the rear motor always cuts in during braking & initial acceleration, to about 10mph.

My mate tows, is 17mpg on more expensive Diesel good value? I think not! Especially when i've seen others with an RX400h acheive in the low 20's on cheaper petrol.... a price difference that is set to increase in the budget.

Diesel cars have to be a minimum of 10% better on fuel to justify the pump pricce alone, add in the extra costs at purchase time & it soon becomes clear that you need to do a lot of miles to get the equations to balance - add in the fact the ANY 225g CO2 vehicle is set to solde in the residual value stakes (hence why so many new lower CO2 versions are coming over the horizon) & the RR Sport, like many others of it's kind, are on borrowed time - 5 years from now, outside the Supercar Club, I dubt there will be many serious polltuin vehicles on the market - the taxes will price them off.

Remember as well, the £400 tax disc is due soon for such cars & that's only been frozen for the next 2 years to give the manufacturers time to adjust, the £1000 tax disc is a serious possiblity for such vehicles - read the Government's own "think tank" documents for more.

I'm not dependant on the petrol engine at motorway speeds atm, the electric motors cut in & out frequently, although compared to a full petrol/diesel the driving technique is different to get the best from the power train.

As my mate's RR Sport cost over £60K it isn't really a fair comparison .... I could have gone the Discovery route I guess, but didn't want "a box" - quite apart from the fact that my mate's RR Sport has been in & out fo the dealership with several relaiblity issues, including failed air suspension at 70 mph dropping it to the bump stops! Reliability is a BIG MUST for me.

These days I don't see any excuse for frequent failures with a car, not when the Koreans can offer 5 & 7 year warranties.

I am certain Hybrid technology will advice, I welcome that & Fuel Cell technology.

However, as to becoming obsolete, well the London Congestion Charge is set to wipe about 5%- 8% off used cars in Band G (225g CO2 or above) by the end of the year according to many sources within the trade, as many Mercs, BMW's et all are tradied in for lower emmissions versions.

Hence why Porsche have decalred their intent to take legal action against Transport for London over this contentious charge. The financial damage to them & their customers is probably emmense - where are the SMMT on this issue? Silent, thanks guys, your members have our money, nice to know where their loyalty lies!

Like you, no offence taken or menat, but a response to make everyone at least think about where we're heading (off a political cliff with no driver!)

[Mr Pants!]

Having had Audi's for the last 12 years I can't say I've noticed the "step up" in quality of customer service that various surveys point to

I missed this bit on the post, hence my late reply.

When I was buying my RX400H I had an IS250 to trade in, which was nice, but just lacked a bit of room for me. So I went to Audi and BMW and I have to say the Audi sales man was a joke! I won't name names as I am sure it is not allowed on this forum, but I went in and said to him and I quote "I have £40k to spend on a car, I would like to trade my IS250 and want something with a little more room, possibly and A4 or A6 estate and I would like something with a bit of oomf?" He just did not seem interested! I thought to myself, well I guess he has people all day long with £40k to spend!!!

BMW was a different experience, the salesman was fantastic, worked at Barons in Farnborough, unfortunately for him the RX400h was the winner, plus the salesman at Lexus Bracknell is a good bloke and always looks after me! So he should as I am on my third Lexus!

Point being, I was shocked how bad the Audi rep was, he never called me back despite me forcing all my details on him. I should perhaps visit his sales manager one day with the RX400h all polished up and explain to him what happened. I thought these guys were on commission....?

[derekyau]

Sounds like tram as you come to a stop.

Hehe.

I know exactly what you mean.

Love it though!