My Own Gearbox Dilemma

[floggit]

Hi have been keeping up with the other toyota gearbox fluid thread and not wishing to hijack with my own story thought id start my own.

After reading if your fluids brown too many times now ( as mine is ) i decided to look into getting mine changed today. Really easy as i dont have the ability to do it myself and theres only one local specialist to go to as im aware.

Really nice guy informed me its £200 + vat job done. Thats proper vacuum sucking 99% of old oil out ( his words ) not just a flush. When i mentioned toyota specific oil he just said they use dexron and its £200 all in + vat.

And this was with no price checking of lexus filters or oil quantity so im guessing they just have a standard price which doesent give me much confidence. I wouldnt think offering to supply my own oil would be welcomed as i got doubts id ever know if they actually used it !

Dilemma... Ive had my lex now for nearly 4years and have no ideas when it was last changed .199500 miles on clock. Its really really brown, but apart from the odd rare clunk between rev and d or p it drives sweet. Should i just drive it and buy another if it breaks or book it in and hope lol. All peoples post saying yo must change if brown have started to weigh on the mind a bit but i really dont want a situation in a few weeks time that im saying to them " it was fine before you changed the oil "

I guess what im saying is my after leavin the specialist i had doubts which i suppose you shouldnt .how important is it?

Thanks or your thoughts

Steve.

[abs66]

Dexron is a big NO NO on AW boxes on the 400 and £240 is a lot even for a vac out. I personally wouldn't touch them, but its up to you.

With regards to it being brown, its already overdue a change in my opinion so sooner the change the better but not dexron its the wrong fluid no matter what they say.

I would think a competent garage should be able to do that at least £100 cheaper.

Have a look on LEXLS for an idea whats involved, seems pretty simple to do if you have access to ramps or a lift. Im going to invest in some good ramps and buy the correct fluid and filter and do it myself and I expect it to still cost way less than that quote plus I will have a set of ramps for future use.

Anyway what ever you decide, good luck and heres the link.

http://www.lexls.com/tutorials/transmission/transchange.html

[Parrot of Doom]

£200 for sucking the old oil out? Is he having a laugh, proposing only half a job? If that's all you he thinks should be done then just buy a boat engine vacuum (£40), some new fluid, and save yourself £100!

Not only should all the old oil be removed (which a vacuum won't do since bits will be left in various parts the vacuum can't reach), but the filter should be replaced, and the pan gasket also.

I don't know about Lexuses but certainly on Mercedes you can disconnect the ATF cooler pipes, turn the engine on, and let it pump the old stuff straight out (obviously engine off once the flow has stopped). On mine we just drained the old stuff from the gearbox sump, and also from the torque converter, which had its own drain plug.

[cleverdick]

I did manage to do this job on my previous LS (about 5 years ago), with the help of the lexls tutorial. It is reasonably straightforward provided you have access to a hoist and plan the work meticulously. I did have trouble obtaining T4 from the Toyota dealer but got there in the end, it cost about £100 for the requisite 10 litres IIRC, plus a filter and gasket from a company in the US. I used red Hermitite to reseal the sump. This is the kind of procedure that needs to be tackled in a calm, collected and methodical manner, without time constraints. Best of luck...

[Malc]

Reading the Owners Manual with my 1995 LS400 ...... last page:

Fluid Type: Automatic transmission fluid Type T-11 or equivalent.

Probably different for the MK4 I guess !

Malc

[itarumaa]

LUBRICANT

Item Capacity Classification

Automatic transmission fluid

Dry fill

Drain and refill

8.4 liters (8.9 US qts, 7.4 Imp. qts)

1.9 liters (2.0 US qts, 1.7 Imp. qts)

ATF TYPE T–IV

From service manual of Ls400 ,year 2000

[floggit]

Thanks guys, it looks like il have to try a few more garages for quotes. Had no idea what sort of price to expect.its really not a job i want to contemplate on my drive as im not mechanically minded. If i had a problem which i probably would id be stuck with a car i have to have towed to a garage which i then have to trust so i might as well just find a good garage lol.

My usual guy who has all the tools and ramps doesent want to do the job which in these hard times makes me think its a bugger.

Ill try some more places.

Steve.

[Parrot of Doom]

Steve have a look on this site, you should be able to find somebody reliable near you:

http://www.fedauto.co.uk/

You really need a 2 or 4-post ramp to do it properly.

[Malc]

I guess that if you're really worried about it all maybe you should get a quote from the Lexus dealer ......... you might be surprised ( one way or the other ! ) AND then you will have peace of mind if you decide to go with them.

I would simply have my local guy do the job for me that's been looking after my cars for years now and who would charge me very little I think for this relatively simple job with having all the right tools.

It's having confidence in the garage, well the individual, that you have used for years maybe.

Good luck with it. BUT the 1995 Mk3 seems to be rather less stressful to look after than the Mk4 !

Malc

[colmcork]

I am sorry about this, but just to throw a bit of a spanner in the works here.

When on the Toyota Supra forums the guys there always stressed that a full auto gearbox flush should only ever be performed after the gearbox had major surgery carried out on it. This had something to do with a mineral build up inside the gearbox if it was subject to a batch of clean fresh transmission fluid all of a sudden.

What they all recommended for the Supra ( and surely the lexus autobox is very similar, if not the same? ) is that the lower sump/pan be drained, approx 1.5 to 2 litres, and the gearbox be topped up by this amount. This procedure was then repeated over the next few thousand miles until you have ended up replacing approx 10 litres or so of transmission oil, or until you are satisfied that the oil is now a consistent cherry red.

They also insisted that ONLY Toyota type IV transmission fluid be used.

I really hope this doesn't confuse things here. This is the procedure I will follow if and when I need to do a transmission fluid change on my future 400. It seems to have served all of the auto Supra's very well in the past.

[ambermarine]

I am sorry about this, but just to throw a bit of a spanner in the works here.

When on the Toyota Supra forums the guys there always stressed that a full auto gearbox flush should only ever be performed after the gearbox had major surgery carried out on it. This had something to do with a mineral build up inside the gearbox if it was subject to a batch of clean fresh transmission fluid all of a sudden.

What they all recommended for the Supra ( and surely the lexus autobox is very similar, if not the same? ) is that the lower sump/pan be drained, approx 1.5 to 2 litres, and the gearbox be topped up by this amount. This procedure was then repeated over the next few thousand miles until you have ended up replacing approx 10 litres or so of transmission oil, or until you are satisfied that the oil is now a consistent cherry red.

They also insisted that ONLY Toyota type IV transmission fluid be used.

I really hope this doesn't confuse things here. This is the procedure I will follow if and when I need to do a transmission fluid change on my future 400. It seems to have served all of the auto Supra's very well in the past.

Hi

I changed the transmission fluid on my Mark 1 Lexus when she had done 150k I used a marine engine Pump to suck the oil from the gearbox using the dipstick tube. Advised at the time to do this in three litre stages .ie take out 3 litres put in new 3 litres go for a trip round the block repeat process until the oil is back to red. Using about 15 litres of new doing it this way it enables the process of not shocking the system ,which to all intents and purposes is the seals, the transmission fluid as a ingredient which services the seals and over time the fluid reaches a happy medium with the seals any severe shock to the system will inevitably show up in the seals by way of leaks.

With regards to the filter I did not change that as I had no reason to believe there had been any foreign bodies or contaminents in the Gearbox.

I have put a further 30k on since then and everything is running smoothly ,I also used this method to change the fluid in the power steering but with obviously less fluid but with shorter periods between service changes.As for the Fluid used I followed the Workshop Manual specs ATF T-11 or equivelant.

[floggit]

Wow ...a lot of different opinions and views this has always been a varied subject. Im not a mechanic so its a lot to take in. Thanks to parrots link ive found another specialist locally so ill try there next friday and see what they charge / do ,,

Thanks

Steve.

[M.IQBAL]

Hi

Juat wanted to add i was thinking of getting the oil changed on my Mark 4 (80K) just for piece of mind and was quoted £180 for a complete change by lexus. They reckon it takes 45 mins

regards

miq

[floggit]

Thanks miq, it will be worth checking my local stealer as well then. Id certainly pay that. Ill find out fri

[AndyCheltenham1]

When I phoned Lexus in Cheltenham about having my gearbox serviced and spoke to the service manager he told me the gearbox on LS400 was a sealed unit and could not be serviced and that was the reason I used an independent specialist from fedauto.co.uk.

I have since spoken to 5 different garages who are members of fedauto and ALL say they do not use genuine Toyota fluid but a compatible which is perfectly acceptable.

The price quoted by lexus of £180 seems a good price for using genuine fluid (plus filters??)

I'll be interested to see what your independent specialist garage quotes and what type of fluid they use and what they think of the argument that only genuine toyota fluid can be used-I still can't quite accept that all of these specialists have been servicing these gearboxes for quite a long time now( and these same gearboxes are not only fitted to Lexus) and have never had any problems with them??

[abs66]

Well Colms comments about gradual changing of fluid intrigued me as it definitely makes life a whole lot easier from a diy stand point.

Whilst doing a little more digging I remembered an old friends brother was an auto gearbox man many moons ago and as that facebook thingy had managed to recently get us back

in touch I asked him if his brother still worked on gearboxes. He does as it turns out and he confirmed there was a certain logic to the Supra boys claims and thats exactly what he does on his auto box

mainly as its easy for him to do at the end of the day at work.

He also told me that he has only ever used either the correct toyota type t-IV mainly when customer brought their own or other makes that are jws 3309 specs like Mobil 3309 etc. He said it was down to correct friction. He also said they had come across boxes that hadn't had 3309 spec when last done and were now playing up.

Thats pretty much all I needed to know to be honest. I'm going to replace the atf 3 litres at a time until its cherry red and I will probably use the Toyota stuff as I cant get equivalent stuff any cheaper.

Happy days. I love these forums, they can get you thinking outside the box with all the different info flying about. Thanks guys.

[Malc]

Just a thought, why don't you simply ask the Lexus dealer which ATF they would use for your specific car ...... from the registration. Coz if it's a Mk3 then I fear that you may only require the T-11 !

Malc

[floggit]

T11 , never heard of that one before on the forums, ill find out fri. Ta

[Malc]

See my post 29th July and the other post 30th. July specifically mentioning ATF T-11 for the earlier cars.

Just don't get the wrong fluid !

Malc

[Parrot of Doom]

When on the Toyota Supra forums the guys there always stressed that a full auto gearbox flush should only ever be performed after the gearbox had major surgery carried out on it. This had something to do with a mineral build up inside the gearbox if it was subject to a batch of clean fresh transmission fluid all of a sudden.

This makes little to no sense to me, and sounds like an old-wives tale not dissimilar to the old "don't let the fuel tank run dry, there's crap at the bottom of it" story, or "use engine flush between oil changes". Better just to change all the fluid in one go every 60,000 miles or so.

We have filters for a reason.

[abs66]

Doesn't the T-IV replace the T-II, I'm sure I've read that somewhere.

I see your point Parrot about it sounding like an old wives tale and it maybe that's true, but the crap in a tank isn't necessarily an old wives tale just ask some of the beemer owners that have had crap in the bottom of their tanks due to corrosion, that kind of debris might be the cause of the bottom of tank scare talk. True, the filter generally will pick up the debris in fact that's what its there for, which begs the question why is it there if contaminants don't come out of the tank?

I wish we had the chance to chat to a guy from Aisin Warner who could clear the whole thing up for us, does anyone on the forum have links with them by any chance? (See if you can get us a discount on the fluids lol)

[Parrot of Doom]

Fuel filters exist to prevent any detritus whatsoever from entering the pump. That could be from corrosion, through the filler nozzle, whatever. Some filters also remove water from the fuel.

But fuel tanks drain from the bottom, so how anything collects on the base of the tank I'm not sure.

[floggit]

Right heres the latest and not surprisingly different quotes from two new places.

Another local specialist has quoted £120 + watever the gasket and filter costs. Thats ok but they only use a catrol equivelant not genuine toyota oil.

And now for the weirdest quote of all which gives me no confidence in putting my car anywhere.

LEXUS MAIN DEALER PLYMOUTH. £271.75 inclusive of everything. Not bad as a initial price but i then asked how much for the correct oil if i were to do the job myself....... 5 litres £ 9.95 +vat !!!!!!!!! They must be selling cooking oil lol. Even if i bought 10ltrs its under £25

There is one more place im going to try monday.

I appriciate eveyones input but i dont have the knowledge confidence or tools to do the job myself and every garage i quoted with gave me no confidence in giving them my car ,including lexus now i know theyd use £9.95 oil .if the garage on monday is the same ive decided to just run it as is . The box is running fine so i dont see the point of risking it being serviced and coming back with a fault.

Even if lexus has just quoted me wrong how do you hand over the keys to your baby with confidence? To the people who should know.

Steve.

[abs66]

Did you try DJ Autos in plymouth I think they are called. If they use a Castrol equiv, double check it is complient with the jws 3309 as stated in previous posts. Opie Oils down in Redruth can give you advice on which ATF's are compliant to that standard. I dont think they are the cheapest around but if I remember right they only stock quality oils and are very helpful on the phone.

Good luck

[floggit]

Hi pete yep DJ transmissions quoted me the £120 + With Castrol. They did seem ok.. Ill have to check exactky what they use against whats compatable. Ill find out.