Auto Express article "Lexus GS vs rivals"

[TonyGoose]

From this weeks Auto Express email there's an article comparing :-

Lexus GS 450h

BMW 535d M Sport

Audi A6 3.0 BiTDI

http://www.autoexpre...us-gs-vs-rivals

TG

[noby76]

I have come to realise no matter how hard Lexus tries it can never be as good as the German brands in the eyes of european car review companies. this was the same case with when the LS400 was released. review companies in Europe shut it down before they had even turned the key saying what was Toyota thinking taking on the Germans? and after about a year, thier tone changed as the LS400 brand new was said to be more refined and quieter than the Rolls Royce at that time.

I mean how can they say this looks dated?

http://wot.motortren...450h-cockpit-2/

compared to these?

http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

http://newsexpensive...erior-wallpaper

or Lexus does not have driving/handling dynamics as seen in this video courtesy of wendle?

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=Ht-_CxBB-kc

America is the No1 consumer of any products in the world and the No1 Luxury car selling there is Lexus that alone should tell these European reviewers something. dont get me wrong Germans do know how to build a car but Auto Express please give credit when its due to a non German car manufacturer. like i said no matter how good it is, it will never be on par or surpass German cars why because it does not waer a German badge. I bet you if the GS450h would have been wearing a BMW badge it would be hailed as the car of the decade! what a joke...

[PJ S]

Joke review/article by a joker of a journalist, for the joke of a publication - don't bother wasting your breathe talking about it.

It is the Daily Mail of the car sector publications, and only fit for wiping your bum with to save the softer toilet paper for special occasions.

Nothing they write about cars should be taken in any way seriously.

[Silver Arrow]

Having owned a string of German cars and 2 Lexus's (the first was the rubbish 220d) I have to say the GS250 isn't a bad car compared to the german cars. It matches most of them except when driven at 70%+ of the handling limits (and who actually drives at that rate all the time???) and CO2/economy so it doesn't make a good company car.

It's the best compromise between all of the Luxury cars out there if you are buying it out of a company car scheme/privately. The BMW has a rubbish ride quality and fragile engines, swirl flaps, turbo's etc, Audi's overpriced and MB have the worst interior of any car out there. They all suffer from dreadful dealership experience!!

The new GS is a wonderful car.....and I wouldn't have said that given I had the unreliable, rubbishy IS220d before....I was a die hard german car fanatic until I drove one of these.....

[ColinBarber]

The GS has always handled badly, along with poor ride quality over bumps compared to the German competition. It is something that Toyota/Lexus cannot get right, or really don't want to as the car is designed for their biggest market the US. For a short term road test the BMW is a much better experience and that is what reviews are based on. Average dealers and average reliability from the German cars is where Lexus makes up ground, together with wanting to drive something different.

Lexus as the biggest luxury brand in the US is over after an 11 year reign. They are not even number 2 now.

BMW number 1 and MB number 2.

However this is partly because of supply issue due to the problems in Japan and high export prices.

[noby76]

Lexus as the biggest luxury brand in the US is over after an 11 year reign. They are not even number 2 now.

BMW number 1 and MB number 2.

for a brand that was setup only in 1989 to topple and hold No1 spot for 11 years is a big achievement and the reason why they not reigning any more was all down to conspiracy theories which some say was fabricated by the bankrupt US car companies(General Motors) in 2008 to give Toyota a bad reputation with accusations of failing brakes and cars speeding up for no reason. one question we need to ask ourselves is why was this only happening in America and none of these problems was experienced by owners in Russia, Middle East , Africa and Europe where the same Toyota/Lexus models are also sold? def not knocking German engineering but most european reviewers be it on TV, website articles all seem to talk down on Lexus be it LS,RX,GS,IS or the h models. just read or watch any youtube videos comparing Lexus to german makes and the result is always one sided 'biased' towards German. all am saying is honest credit needs to be given when its due. LS400 in its day toppled any german car in its class but still did not get credit.

[dave1]

From this weeks Auto Express email there's an article comparing :-

Lexus GS 450h

BMW 535d M Sport

Audi A6 3.0 BiTDI

http://www.autoexpre...us-gs-vs-rivals

TG

The email doesnt actually equate to the articles! In issue1225 (11-17 July) they tested the GS450h and stated, realistically I think, that the hybrid batteries reduced the boot size so didn't match MB E-class for rear passengers and luggage. Apart from the CVT they appear tp praise the car for quality, finish, reliability and "toys".

Issue 1227 compares the GS250 with the Audi A6 Allroad 3.0BiTDI quattro. Whilst it mentions the fact that the 528i Msport is more fuel efficient and has lower CO2, is faster, handles better and is cheaper, it doesn't actually decry the GS. It would appear that the email refers to 2 seperate articles over a period of 3 weeks.

Why are owners so sensitive about any reviews/comments which may appear to be suggesting that Lexus have real competitors in the marketplace who can outperform Lexus in certain areas?

Out of interest, issue 1227 also reports on the ISF Cabrio (page 23)

[noby76]

this is definitely not being over sensitive! this is about biased articles or review videos which gives Lexus 5% credit then knocks it down 25% in the process. The bias is evident and maybe I haven't come across one which Lexus has come out 1st place yet but all articles i have read and videos i have watched online comparing any Lexus model to its competitors always favours the competitors. even with it holding top spot for 11 years with J. D power awards under its belt it still ends up last in comparison reviews! something is not right is it?

[mikeyv]

You can't beat owners reviews imo, from people who have driven and lived with the car long term, and, crucially, picked up the tab for repairs and depreciation themselves.

[Silver Arrow]

I think as said above, the cars are from Germany are pretty good on a test drive, handle well, are economical etc. But they are so complicated. HPFP's, Turbo's with variable vanes or even twin, DPF's on the diesels etc. Whilst you may happily run a petrol Lexus without a warranty, you would have to be fairly brave to run a BMW, Audi or MB after year 4 from new without a warranty. They can (and often do) hit trouble at 60-80,000 miles. I know people normally post troubles on the whole on forums, but the German forums bristle with issues - not just the cars - but dealerships who couldn't care less, and manufacturers who will not accept that their cars have issues due to poor designs.

Sytner BMW, Audi, MB Lexus etc now have fantastic showrooms and buildings. But the thing that gets me with the german ones is that they have these "fast lane" drop facilities for the car for servicing; you feel you're on a conveyor belt from the minute you drive in and you are treated like you're just another bod in the queue, ready for the fleecing!

That is what did it for me in the end. I know the Lexus ownership may be slightly dearer, but I feel a great deal of peace when I walk into a Lexus dealer. The dealerships are smaller, have a better focus and are just more pleasant and relaxed.

And to top it the cars aren't anywhere near as bad as the magazines and journo's make out. You have rarity value and loads of wonderful toys.

We hadn't even considered a Lexus again after my disaster with the 220d (which was a bad car), but I actually love this one. Lexus do the petrol/auto thing extremely well....

[dave1]

Lexus as the biggest luxury brand in the US is over after an 11 year reign. They are not even number 2 now.

BMW number 1 and MB number 2.

for a brand that was setup only in 1989 to topple and hold No1 spot for 11 years is a big achievement and the reason why they not reigning any more was all down to conspiracy theories which some say was fabricated by the bankrupt US car companies(General Motors) in 2008 to give Toyota a bad reputation with accusations of failing brakes and cars speeding up for no reason. one question we need to ask ourselves is why was this only happening in America and none of these problems was experienced by owners in Russia, Middle East , Africa and Europe where the same Toyota/Lexus models are also sold? def not knocking German engineering but most european reviewers be it on TV, website articles all seem to talk down on Lexus be it LS,RX,GS,IS or the h models. just read or watch any youtube videos comparing Lexus to german makes and the result is always one sided 'biased' towards German. all am saying is honest credit needs to be given when its due. LS400 in its day toppled any german car in its class but still did not get credit.

Conspiracy by GM? Who did they conspire with? I think that theory is a load of twaddle. Did they not feel the need to "conspire against MB, BMW or any other of the "foreign manufacturers? Out of interest the RX for the US market is built in Canada as far as I know.

[noby76]

dont shoot the messanger here these are words circluating around on the internet might be true or might not be true I cant tell but for all I know non of these problems were experienced by any other Toyota or Lexus owners in any part of the world except US. that alone should raise some questions about if these alegations were really true or fabricated. and Toyota being the No1 car manufacture in the world during the time of these allegations, makes them easy meat for other competitors. dont get me wrong no car brand is 100% reliable and Toyota/Lexus is no exception.

[mikeyv]

I just got an email from what car regarding reliability in 2012, using warranty direct figures. - this is why I've run Hondas and Toyotas for many years, and now a Lexus.

Check out the much revered German brands.

[dave1]

I've had Lexus for over 10 years and wife has Hyundai i30 and no major problems with either marque. Always amazes me how figures can be produced for reliability or anything else halfway through the year. On these figures the far less expensive Hyundai has a 3% higher rate for failures over Lexus with very similar mileage and cost (avge) 25% less to repair.

What this has to do with reviews is beyond me! Lexus are currently getting some good reviews, but there is no disputing the fact that Lexus cars do have shortcomings.

Having been a Lexus owner for over 10 years I believe that I have been driving superb cars for this period.........however I also accept that Lexus cars are NOT perfect and, in some areas, fall short of competitors. It is really a question of weighing up the pros and cons and making a choice as to what car you spend your money on.

Any owner of a premium car thinks that the marque they own/drive is the best but realistically they all have both strong points and weaker points and it would probably be far better if owners acknowledged it.

[Silver Arrow]

Totally agree with Dave1 - they're like relatives, all different! Some you get on with, some you can't stand....lol

[mikeyv]

What it has to do with reviews Dave, is that reviews are done by people who don't care whether a car is reliable, or what repairs cost, as they just get another one if they break them, at no cost to them.

However, reliability and running costs are high on my list of priorities, how fast it can get round the ring, or how it looks in the company car park is not.

I'm unsure whether your other remarks relate to my posts, as only an idiot would think any car/brand was perfect, and I certainly don't think my car or Lexus are perfect, nor did I imply that they were.

However, I would say that Japanese cars have outperformed European makes consistently for many years, in the things that matter most to me.