Nx 300H Test Drive By An Is Owner

[Konrad]

Hello everybody, This is my first proper entry despite being a member for years.

I collected my new IS 300h advance just under 2 months ago. I'm really pleased with it so far and when Lexus owners club offered a 24h test drive of a NX - It looked like the opportunity not to be missed.

So here it is on my driveway, white, fully loaded 300h premier from Lexus Hatfield. BTW I found their

customer care quite random (largely person dependent) with some excellence and disappointment depending on the day.

My impressions? Having dome circa 80 miles so far... I can't wait to have my IS back!

Positives first: All of the bells and whistles that come with premier trim, but mostly touch pad controller vs my rotary knob, electric tailgate, heated steering wheel and reclining rear seats.

Now onto negatives: The engine and transmission :-/. It feels like the 300h was designed with IS in mind and was then adapted to the NX. Car feels extremely sluggish in comparison. In normal mode the Is is swiftly responding to my foot and I rarely have to go over to second zone of power range. In NX, I'm having to rev it a lot harder in order to get anywhere near to a satisfactory acceleration. (I'm beginning to understand what a famous 'CVT whine' actually means). results? 1500 miles in my Is so far and mpg easily between 48-49 (struggling to get above 50 with my heavy foot). As for NX? wait for it... 30mpg!!! I can't believe my eyes. Am I a car journalist or something?

I wonder if anyone else from Is stable took-up the offer, whether you have similar thoughts?

Update:

The IS has returned to It's rightful owner :-)

More obs:

Built quality on par with IS overall,

Adaptive cruise control - brilliant, but a bit too sensitive and radical for me, I like the fact that you increase/reduce speed by 5mph itervals,

Another run with my foot as gentle on the pedal as possible (At some point I was actually overtaken by a 02 reg Corsa), 5M in the town (Sun am traffic doing 30-40mph) and 7M on A1 doing 80mph with adaptive cruise control = 31mpg :-((

I also LOVE the panoramic roof. This is is fantastic shame I didn't see it when was putting in an order.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Konrad

[Deadloak]

I was choosing between the IS + NX, but I agree with your findings. But I'd probably may had gone for the NX, if I needed the extra cargo space. I did manage to get 45mpg from a premier NX on a test drive, but I didn't like the drive. I still like the looks though.

I managed better mpg on the IS test drive, and the drive was far superior in my normal driving habits. I'm getting about the same as you in the current weather, although I've got 30mins of extra contraflow for the next 9mths. So I expect that to get bettter after that.

I had a NX recently as a loaner, as tbh did fancy using it much, and it looked ghastly in Mesa red (just my opinion/taste though as I don't like red cars, even a Ferrari​).

David.

​

[DJP]

An interesting thread for me, having had an IS300h F Sport for 2 years and am now in a new F Sport NX300h. I've had it 3 weeks and it now has 1100 miles on the clock. Undoubtably the extra weight and less aero dynamic body of an SUV impacts on the mpg and the effort the engine has to put in, compared to the IS. The handling is not as tight as the IS but still pretty good IMO. That said, I haven't used Sport mode yet, and don't expect it to be as much fun as it was in the IS.

I haven't noticed the CVT whine to any great extent but did find the ASC a bit wearing.

There have been many posts about the NX real world mpg, and although it's early days I'm not at all disappointed. My IS computer combined, which I never bothered to reset readout was 42 mpg during the milder months and 38 in autumn/winter. My first 1000 miles returned 37.6 with exactly the same driving pattern and style.

I haven't quite got the hang of the touchpad, I'm finding I press it at the wrong time but I'm sure I'll get used to it. The adaptive cruise is superb, I really like that feature.

Overall I think the finish in the NX is a tad higher end than on the IS, eg the door plastics seem sturdier and the LED headlights and cornering fogs are excellent. I'm not sure whether this is because I'm in a 65 plate rather than a 63 plate though.

I'm very happy with the switch I've made but of course everyone's experiences and needs are different.

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[rayaans]

Agree with nearly everything you've said.

I don't like the touch pad compared to the joystick found in the IS/RX and the NX is very sluggish. The fact that they chose the ES setup instead of the IS setup with extra power is beyond me.

The fit and finish was exemplary, no problems, but then Id expect that anyway so wasn't surprised. My main issue is with motorway driving, I find it takes too long to overtake other cars and its a pain on hills (basically all of Yorkshire).

Also, yes, 30mpg is awful. I haven't dipped below 30mpg in my RX and its got a V6 with 100hp more and much more weight!

I think Lexus were targeting company car buyers with the NX300h with no regard for anyone else. They just wanted figures to look good compared to the competition.

BUT the most frustrating thing about the NX - the trim is all over the place! Only now can you get ML on an F-Sport! It doesn't even come with memory seats! Not to mention, the dealers are trying their best to manipulate prices which my dealer said wasn't working as well as they'd hoped.

I'd spend the extra £10k on a 2016 RX every time - its a much more polished product (but then it has to be with its heritage hasn't it)

[ganzoom]

How far can you get in 'EV' mode in the NX?? Spend about 30 minutes covering 2-3 miles in Cardiff shopping traffic today, but thanks to the EV setup in the IS300H, most of that crawl was spend in EV mode, and the over mpg barely dropped :).

[DJP]

How far can you get in 'EV' mode in the NX?? Spend about 30 minutes covering 2-3 miles in Cardiff shopping traffic today, but thanks to the EV setup in the IS300H, most of that crawl was spend in EV mode, and the over mpg barely dropped :).

I haven't specifically tested it but due to the weight of the NX against the IS it is more difficult to keep it in EV, especially on hills.

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[ColinBarber]

Has anybody compared 300h with the 200t? I thought that may be the way to go but a couple of reviews I've read were quite negative with the engine and transmission combination and actually preferred the hybrid drivetrain.

[rayaans]

Has anybody compared 300h with the 200t? I thought that may be the way to go but a couple of reviews I've read were quite negative with the engine and transmission combination and actually preferred the hybrid drivetrain.

Yes, been in both. NX200t is great. Nothing wrong with the engine and transmission but its not exactly sporty (which is why the journalists dont like it). The transmission is somewhat reluctant to kick down and it does so at the last minute but it sure goes.

Fuel economy isn't too bad either, it gets 30mpg almost regularly. Id assume itd get more on the motorway too and for the performance gain, its not that much of a loss in fuel economy.

Its more nimble than the 300h too, feels livelier but Id assume depreciation is greater on them

[Konrad]

How far can you get in 'EV' mode in the NX?? Spend about 30 minutes covering 2-3 miles in Cardiff shopping traffic today, but thanks to the EV setup in the IS300H, most of that crawl was spend in EV mode, and the over mpg barely dropped :).

I haven't specifically tested it but due to the weight of the NX against the IS it is more difficult to keep it in EV, especially on hills.

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

Totally agree with that. IMO this is what actually makes the difference. I can easily keep my IS in all electric mode almost on demand, whereas NX's weight means it proved extremely painful. I wish that Lexus upgraded a Battery pack to provide better EV only power output. This would definitely bring the mpg on par with the IS.

[ColinBarber]

The NX has a larger Battery compared to the IS which offsets the extra weight. The issue seems to be how the software has been programmed, Lexus specifically state the engine is designed to rev faster for a given accelerator pedal angle compared to previous hybrids

[DJP]

How far can you get in 'EV' mode in the NX?? Spend about 30 minutes covering 2-3 miles in Cardiff shopping traffic today, but thanks to the EV setup in the IS300H, most of that crawl was spend in EV mode, and the over mpg barely dropped :).

I haven't specifically tested it but due to the weight of the NX against the IS it is more difficult to keep it in EV, especially on hills.

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

Totally agree with that. IMO this is what actually makes the difference. I can easily keep my IS in all electric mode almost on demand, whereas NX's weight means it proved extremely painful. I wish that Lexus upgraded a Battery pack to provide better EV only power output. This would definitely bring the mpg on par with the IS.

Yes, an upgraded motor/battery would be perfect. The lack of power has also been quoted a few times in various threads, but I'm not convinced about that. I certainly notice the engine working a bit more than in the IS, but a few times I've looked down at the speedo and not appreciated quite how fast I was going. I miss the digital speedo from the IS in that respect.

Sent from my iPad using Lexus OC

[ganzoom]

The NX has a larger battery compared to the IS which offsets the extra weight.

Really?? I thought both had the same 1.6kWh Battery, with only about 60% of that been usable (charge is kept at between 20-80%) - It's bigger than the Prius but still pretty pathetic by Battery EV standards :(. My Leaf has 24kWh and a Tesla Model X has 90kWh.

[DJP]

The NX has a larger battery compared to the IS which offsets the extra weight.

Really?? I thought both had the same 1.6kWh Battery, with only about 60% of that been usable (charge is kept at between 20-80%) - It's bigger than the Prius but still pretty pathetic by Battery EV standards :(. My Leaf has 24kWh and a Tesla Model X has 90kWh.

Comparing the two instruction manuals, the IS has a 105 kW motor delivering max torque 300 N.m. The AW drive NX has a front motor of 105 kW delivering 270 N.m and a rear motor of 50 kW delivering 139 N.m.

Somewhat to my surprise the fuel tank on the NX is smaller at 56 litres against the IS's 66.

[ganzoom]

^^ Probably explains why the NX cannot really manage much in EV mode - x2 motors but tiny Battery. I suspect the rear motor is what's eaten into boot space. Hence the inherent space/weight issues with hybrids - you need both the weight of the internal combustion units + the weight of EV motors + Battery.

[ColinBarber]

The rear motor doesn't take up much space, essentially built into the rear diff. The NX Battery pack is made up of 204 cells, the IS uses 192 cells.

The issue being discussed here is that the NX kicks in the petrol engine much sooner than the IS, this isn't down to the Battery capacity or the power that can be delivered by the electric motor - it just seems to be the way the system has been programmed to operate.

[rayaans]

The rear motor doesn't take up much space, essentially built into the rear diff. The NX battery pack is made up of 204 cells, the IS uses 192 cells.

The issue being discussed here is that the NX kicks in the petrol engine much sooner than the IS, this isn't down to the battery capacity or the power that can be delivered by the electric motor - it just seems to be the way the system has been programmed to operate.

That probably explains why the MPG is not great for most as the engine cutting in quicker will reduce the time spent in EV

But - from a drivers point of view, I guess they didn't kick it in soon enough as its too damn slow at any speed above 50mph or on hills. Makes it worse when it roars its head off too

[DJP]

The rear motor doesn't take up much space, essentially built into the rear diff. The NX battery pack is made up of 204 cells, the IS uses 192 cells.

The issue being discussed here is that the NX kicks in the petrol engine much sooner than the IS, this isn't down to the battery capacity or the power that can be delivered by the electric motor - it just seems to be the way the system has been programmed to operate.

That probably explains why the MPG is not great for most as the engine cutting in quicker will reduce the time spent in EV

But - from a drivers point of view, I guess they didn't kick it in soon enough as its too damn slow at any speed above 50mph or on hills. Makes it worse when it roars its head off too

@Rayaans, maybe you've cracked their target market :) - those that tend to drive within surburia/town environments that are fairly flat in the main. Certainly not the Yorkshire Dales! I certainly fit the profile, with a few motorway journey's thrown in, which it copes with perfectly well. It's also big enough for the discerning Yummy Mummy whereas the RX is arguably a tad on the large size.

[ganzoom]

The rear motor doesn't take up much space, essentially built into the rear diff. The NX battery pack is made up of 204 cells, the IS uses 192 cells.

So if we assume the IS300H has 1.7kWh Battery the NX300H has a 1.8kWh, a wooping 0.1kWh extra....Not entirely sure that will even increase the actual usable kWh by more than 0.05kWh.

[rayaans]

The rear motor doesn't take up much space, essentially built into the rear diff. The NX battery pack is made up of 204 cells, the IS uses 192 cells.

The issue being discussed here is that the NX kicks in the petrol engine much sooner than the IS, this isn't down to the battery capacity or the power that can be delivered by the electric motor - it just seems to be the way the system has been programmed to operate.

That probably explains why the MPG is not great for most as the engine cutting in quicker will reduce the time spent in EV

But - from a drivers point of view, I guess they didn't kick it in soon enough as its too damn slow at any speed above 50mph or on hills. Makes it worse when it roars its head off too

@Rayaans, maybe you've cracked their target market :) - those that tend to drive within surburia/town environments that are fairly flat in the main. Certainly not the Yorkshire Dales! I certainly fit the profile, with a few motorway journey's thrown in, which it copes with perfectly well. It's also big enough for the discerning Yummy Mummy whereas the RX is arguably a tad on the large size.

Yes, but then maybe they should have made an NX450H with a de-tuned engine pushing out between 240-270hp. Then. that would be good for performance and economy!

Dimensions wise, the NX is marginally smaller than the RX. The RX just drives BIG! Besides, the mummies are driving around Q7's and RR's now which are about the same size as the new RX

[Konrad]

The rear motor doesn't take up much space, essentially built into the rear diff. The NX battery pack is made up of 204 cells, the IS uses 192 cells.

So if we assume the IS300H has 1.7kWh Battery the NX300H has a 1.8kWh, a wooping 0.1kWh extra....Not entirely sure that will even increase the actual usable kWh by more than 0.05kWh.

Battery capacity is one thing, but more important is maximum power output of the EV system. In IS 300h batteries provide max +/-40 HP hence the total system power 220 ish only slightly above the power of a petrol engine, in NX the difference is similar, with heavier kerbweight - this explains a lot.

[ganzoom]

^^ But the ability of the Battery to discharge power is a major limiting factor for any EV. Certainly on Battery EVs, it's a more important than the motor. The motor on my Leaf is 'capped' at 80KW due to Battery constraints, same with the Zoe.

On a Tesla, the performance difference between various models isn't down to the motor, it more the Battery. The 314 BHP S70 has the same motor as the 370bhp S85, and the P85D has the same motors as the P90D-L. It's the ability of the Battery pack to reliability discharge enough power to supply the motors that's the limiting factor.

No Lexus hybrid has a big enough Battery to really take full advantage of their EV drivetrains. 1.5 kWh of usable charge is like a fitting a V8 with a 1.5L petrol tank....Not very useful, expect for limited running at low speeds, which is when I enjoy our IS300H the most.

[wh05apk]

.................I think you mean like fitting a v8 with a 1/4 ltr (small coke can size) petrol tank - a couple of hard accelerations and it's gone!

[ColinBarber]

On a Tesla, the performance difference between various models isn't down to the motor, it more the battery. The 314 BHP S70 has the same motor as the 370bhp S85, and the P85D has the same motors as the P90D-L. It's the ability of the battery pack to reliability discharge enough power to supply the motors that's the limiting factor.

No Lexus hybrid has a big enough battery to really take full advantage of their EV drivetrains. 1.5 kWh of usable charge is like a fitting a V8 with a 1.5L petrol tank....Not very useful, expect for limited running at low speeds, which is when I enjoy our IS300H the most.

The IS doesn't have an EV drivetrain, it has a hybrid drivetrain. No point in fitting a huge Battery and a decent petrol engine together, the weight would be too much, and Lexus owners do not want a small petrol generator as a backup.

Teslas are starting to suffer long term reliability problems. Owners are complaining of Battery packs and motors needing to be replaced, along with other issues. Toyota have a long established reliability reputation to protect, one reason why they haven't moved to Lithium Ion batteries.

[rayaans]

I thought the Prius plug in was lithium ion

[ganzoom]

Teslas are starting to suffer long term reliability problems. Owners are complaining of battery packs and motors needing to be replaced, along with other issues. Toyota have a long established reliability reputation to protect, one reason why they haven't moved to Lithium Ion batteries.

Tesla are on versions D/E of their Battery pack and apparently version 10+ of the motor units. Unlike other manfactures who drag their feet about replacing parts, they are very proactive at replacing updated parts. Their current push is a 'one million mile' drivetrain.

The same consumer reports article that brought up realiabilty issues also showed 97% of owners would buy again. Which is the final/most important factor.

The Battery technology Toyota is using WAS cutting edge, when the original Prius came out. Back than Lithium Ion Battery technology was still been developed, and cost more than $1500 per kWh. The cost of Lithium ion Battery packs is now already at $250-300 per kWh, and LG apparently have told GM they can supple packs for $145 per kWh. Nissan have shown a prototype Leaf with a 60kWh Battery pack that's the same size as the current 30kWh pack, so double the energy density, due for mass production in 2017/18 - Just a reminder the IS300H has a 1.5 kWh pack.

Toyota has done a great job at pushing the hybrid technology, and the IS300H is the reason I became interested in EVs....But their technology hasn't really changed since 1997. Mitubishi have shown how a large SUV can be the perfect platform for a larger plug in hybrid...Yet Toyota continues to press on with chasing after hydrogen fuel cell cars.

The latest 'Car' magazine is worth a read, it documents well the EV tech coming from Audi/Porche, their longterm Volvo Plug-In hybrid, a brief review of the new RX, a peice on hydrogen fuel cell cars (and the ture cost of building hydrogen fuel stations), and an editorial about Tesla.

If you want better mpg from a car currently there is only one way to go - larger batteries/full EV drivetrain. Though Toyota clearly believe otherwise, but I also note Blackberry have just released their latest hand set....Guess what it still has a physical keyboard :)