First ever test drive - RC300h F-Sport - Not Impressed

[H3XME]

I've liked these since they came out. I never bothered driving one because they were out of my budget, but you can get one for reasonable money on PCP now.. Anyway, I actually went to Lexus Birmingham on Saturday and test drove RC300h they had in. I'm glad I did because now I can forget about the hybrid version. Car looks amazing, I really like it. Test drove a white 2017 car, but they also had 2016 red & blue in.

As soon as I got in the car, I adjusted the seat and I was very happy with the seating position. Nice and low, reminded me a lot of my GT86, which was surprising because these high end luxury coupes sometimes struggle with it, e.g. 4 series. I liked the interior vibe I was getting, once you're behind the wheel and you shut the door, it's really nice in my opinion. Again, you don't often get it with other cars. Even the new Supra isn't quite like this inside. Anyway, time to actually drive the car. Gently drove off, it was fine, as you'd expect from a hybrid, nice and smooth, didn't notice any of the annoying electric motor sound you normally get from a Prius when you're in a taxi 😄 That's a positive. However, leaving the island from Lexus and joining a dual carriageway was very underwhelming. To be fair, I didn't floor it, I was going at it in a normal manner, as I would in my own car. The car felt very lazy. When I gave it some beans, I had time to look at my wrist watch and back before it started doing something. Almost as if there was a very bad turbo lag, except silent until the petrol engine kicked in. Then I realised that I was in the eco/normal mode. I changed to sport mode, the dash turned red, the accelerator was suddenly a little sharper, similar to the PWR button in an automatic IS250. So in sports mode everything got a little better, but it was still laggy compared to a normal linear power delivery of a naturally aspirated petrol engine. It's still awful really when manufacturers do this to cars to make you and the car drive as economically as possible for the cost of driving experience. I think the car handled quite well, from the limited short test drive. Seems like a nice, rigid chassis and with the right power train this car would be a good fun despite its weight. I drove sensibly throughout the test drive. It was a mixture of 30, 40 & 50 roads with single lanes, traffic lights, dual carriageways and some roundabouts. This "lag" I'm talking about, happened again at 40mph, the car was honestly struggling to get to 50mph without me having to step on it. The way I would normally accelerate from 40 to 50 in 4th or 5th gear, was not enough pressure to the pedal in the RC. The car felt like it was in 7th gear which is non sense since it's a CVT. That being said might be just because I'm not used to it and it needs to be driven differently, however at the end of the test drive we arrived with 22.8MPG. Ridiculous, my V6 would do the same.

To wrap this up.. RC300h is definitely not the car for me, or anybody else who is into cars on a higher level than your neighbour Fred who has an M badge on his 520d. It doesn't drive the way a proper car should. The RC300h I drove did not drive the way I'd expect, it did not achieve the fuel economy I'd expect and it did not perform the way I'd expect. I was only looking at hybrid because it looks good and if it was as good on fuel as the official figures claim, I'd get over the way it drives. It would be my daily driver, just to work and back, not a fun weekend car, but I do 35 miles on the motorway each day and my IS250 will have very similar MPGs at 42mpg on the run..  Sure, it will drive differently, it's a hybrid with a lazy 4 cylinder under the bonnet, but the way it was, the looks & driving position are the only things it's got going for it in my opinion. I think it's good enough for people who aren't petrol heads because they can enjoy the looks while not being fussed about how different it drives. There is not enough benefits for me to justify spending £370/m on a car with this powertrain. I don't see any point in having hybrids to be honest, the difference is minimal for people like me who commute on the motorway.

I'm yet to drive RC200t like I said to the sales guy, because the 300h experience leaves me with only two options. 200t IF I like the way it and drives (a lot of people seem to dislike the gearbox) or wait some more for RC-Fs to be around low £20s.. in a couple of years.

It's a shame, and I must agree with @Linas.P I'm really jealous of USA & JAPAN because of the availability of RC350 which seems like the perfect engine for this car. Importing one from Japan will work out more than buying an RC-F here so not feasible. 

[PRT68]

You sound like Clarkson and all the other car magazine reviewers.

Ask for an extended test drive of a day or two. Learn to drive it properly and report back.

As a hybrid driver of over 7 years and 400,000 miles, if you would like to come out with me in mine, I'll show you.

I've also had an ISF. The performance you seem to be seeking is available as an RCF.

 

 

 

[Linas.P]

RC200t gearbox is fine, but combination between 8 gears and engine which only makes power between 2000-4000RPM is what kills it - constantly hunts for gears and is never in the right gear. It only starts driving when you already at 50MPH and then pull quite well to ~110MPH (which isn't very useful in UK). RC200t has one distinct advantage which is folding rear seats, this makes it surprisingly practical car and I hate that neither RC-F, nor RC300h has this option. I was thinking that it would have been even better if RC would have been made as "liftback" as it would be even more practical without any downsides, but it wasn't t be.

As for RC300h, that is spot on - looks fast when stationary, but when you drive it is better to forget you are in "sports" coupe, one needs to drive as if they always "hypermiling" it, that sort of drive style works well. Chassis is good, handling is actually good with adaptive suspension in F-Sport, but otherwise very underwhelming. Fuel consumption is poor on motorway, throttle response is poor in city, but it is actually reasonably enjoyable to drive on 50-60MPH A-Roads, mostly because again handling and chassis is good, you can carry speed through the corners and it is not too bad. Even eCVT kind of works, because it gives instant response and you can change engine braking/torque when cornering quite well.

Waiting for RC-F to reach 20k... that would be my goal as well, but the problem is that by the time they do they will be 10 years old and very tired, especially the cheap ones. So one thing is to get reliable Lexus sports car when it is under warranty and another, getting one 10 years old without warranty. And trust me bills on RC-F can escalate quickly. And that is key issue with not having RC350, it would be fast enough without high maintenance of RC-F.

P.S. it is funny when people come here with their honest opinion and state "yes I tried 300h, I just didn't enjoy it" and they are called "Clarkson" and then accused of not having "right" opinion and "failing to accept other opinion". 300h is sluggish what you guys don't get about it? Is not car for everyone, certainly not for somebody who wants responsive and "fun to drive" sports car. 

[H3XME]

16 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

RC200t gearbox is fine, but combination between 8 gears and engine which only makes power between 2000-4000RPM is what kills it - constantly hunts for gears and is never in the right gear. It only starts driving when you already at 50MPH and then pull quite well to ~110MPH (which isn't very useful in UK). RC200t has one distinct advantage which is folding rear seats, this makes it surprisingly practical car and I hate that neither RC-F, nor RC300h has this option. I was thinking that it would have been even better if RC would have been made as "liftback" as it would be even more practical without any downsides, but it wasn't t be.

As for RC300h, that is spot on - looks fast when stationary, but when you drive it is better to forget you are in "sports" coupe, one needs to drive as if they always "hypermiling" it, that sort of drive style works well. Chassis is good, handling is actually good with adaptive suspension in F-Sport, but otherwise very underwhelming. Fuel consumption is poor on motorway, throttle response is poor in city, but it is actually reasonably enjoyable to drive on 50-60MPH A-Roads, mostly because again handling and chassis is good, you can carry speed through the corners and it is not too bad. Even eCVT kind of works, because it gives instant response and you can change engine braking/torque when cornering quite well.

Waiting for RC-F to reach 20k... that would be my goal as well, but the problem is that by the time they do they will be 10 years old and very tired, especially the cheap ones. So one thing is to get reliable Lexus sports car when it is under warranty and another, getting one 10 years old without warranty. And trust me bills on RC-F can escalate quickly. And that is key issue with not having RC350, it would be fast enough without high maintenance of RC-F.

The sales guy said the rear seats do fold on the 300h. 

As for the older RCF.. I wouldn't worry about warranty. It's a fairly old school V8.. I think the engine will be the last thing to go wrong on that car. 

[Linas.P]

11 minutes ago, H3XME said:

The sales guy said the rear seats do fold on the 300h. 

As for the older RCF.. I wouldn't worry about warranty. It's a fairly old school V8.. I think the engine will be the last thing to go wrong on that car. 

I am sure the engine won't be your problem, but how about £1700 front disks? As for seats folding - yes sorry, that is only for RC-F. 

[H3XME]

19 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I am sure the engine won't be your problem, but how about £1700 front disks? As for seats folding - yes sorry, that is only for RC-F. 

EBC sell a pair of OE-replacement front discs for £441.. I wouldn't worry. They aren't grooved like the factory ones, but grooves help with heat minimally, it's about the vents in the discs. Also, this would only be an issue should you go on the track, which I wouldn't. Pads are ~£120 a set. Where there's a will, there's a way. We all know it's always cheaper to DIY. Brakes are brakes, there's no need to all of a sudden start going to the dealer for brakes change just because you have a nice car.. Peugeot 106 or RC-F, brakes are brakes. Going to the dealer is nice should something go wrong, but for basic servicing, I trust myself more than some technicians who don't care. 

[wharfhouse]

1 hour ago, H3XME said:

I've liked these since they came out. I never bothered driving one because they were out of my budget, but you can get one for reasonable money on PCP now.. Anyway, I actually went to Lexus Birmingham on Saturday and test drove RC300h they had in. I'm glad I did because now I can forget about the hybrid version. Car looks amazing, I really like it. Test drove a white 2017 car, but they also had 2016 red & blue in.

As soon as I got in the car, I adjusted the seat and I was very happy with the seating position. Nice and low, reminded me a lot of my GT86, which was surprising because these high end luxury coupes sometimes struggle with it, e.g. 4 series. I liked the interior vibe I was getting, once you're behind the wheel and you shut the door, it's really nice in my opinion. Again, you don't often get it with other cars. Even the new Supra isn't quite like this inside. Anyway, time to actually drive the car. Gently drove off, it was fine, as you'd expect from a hybrid, nice and smooth, didn't notice any of the annoying electric motor sound you normally get from a Prius when you're in a taxi 😄 That's a positive. However, leaving the island from Lexus and joining a dual carriageway was very underwhelming. To be fair, I didn't floor it, I was going at it in a normal manner, as I would in my own car. The car felt very lazy. When I gave it some beans, I had time to look at my wrist watch and back before it started doing something. Almost as if there was a very bad turbo lag, except silent until the petrol engine kicked in. Then I realised that I was in the eco/normal mode. I changed to sport mode, the dash turned red, the accelerator was suddenly a little sharper, similar to the PWR button in an automatic IS250. So in sports mode everything got a little better, but it was still laggy compared to a normal linear power delivery of a naturally aspirated petrol engine. It's still awful really when manufacturers do this to cars to make you and the car drive as economically as possible for the cost of driving experience. I think the car handled quite well, from the limited short test drive. Seems like a nice, rigid chassis and with the right power train this car would be a good fun despite its weight. I drove sensibly throughout the test drive. It was a mixture of 30, 40 & 50 roads with single lanes, traffic lights, dual carriageways and some roundabouts. This "lag" I'm talking about, happened again at 40mph, the car was honestly struggling to get to 50mph without me having to step on it. The way I would normally accelerate from 40 to 50 in 4th or 5th gear, was not enough pressure to the pedal in the RC. The car felt like it was in 7th gear which is non sense since it's a CVT. That being said might be just because I'm not used to it and it needs to be driven differently, however at the end of the test drive we arrived with 22.8MPG. Ridiculous, my V6 would do the same.

To wrap this up.. RC300h is definitely not the car for me, or anybody else who is into cars on a higher level than your neighbour Fred who has an M badge on his 520d. It doesn't drive the way a proper car should. The RC300h I drove did not drive the way I'd expect, it did not achieve the fuel economy I'd expect and it did not perform the way I'd expect. I was only looking at hybrid because it looks good and if it was as good on fuel as the official figures claim, I'd get over the way it drives. It would be my daily driver, just to work and back, not a fun weekend car, but I do 35 miles on the motorway each day and my IS250 will have very similar MPGs at 42mpg on the run..  Sure, it will drive differently, it's a hybrid with a lazy 4 cylinder under the bonnet, but the way it was, the looks & driving position are the only things it's got going for it in my opinion. I think it's good enough for people who aren't petrol heads because they can enjoy the looks while not being fussed about how different it drives. There is not enough benefits for me to justify spending £370/m on a car with this powertrain. I don't see any point in having hybrids to be honest, the difference is minimal for people like me who commute on the motorway.

I'm yet to drive RC200t like I said to the sales guy, because the 300h experience leaves me with only two options. 200t IF I like the way it and drives (a lot of people seem to dislike the gearbox) or wait some more for RC-Fs to be around low £20s.. in a couple of years.

It's a shame, and I must agree with @Linas.P I'm really jealous of USA & JAPAN because of the availability of RC350 which seems like the perfect engine for this car. Importing one from Japan will work out more than buying an RC-F here so not feasible. 

Everyone to their own - you have tested the car and found that it doesn't fit your needs which is all well and good. You probably need to be in a higher engined BMW coupe to get the feeling you are looking for.

Just as a reference, I came from the larger engined BMW 6 cylinder cars to the IS 300h. Although I do a decent mileage in my cars I wasn't really using the BMWs for how they were designed - too many road restrictions, speed cameras and traffic jams these days. I had a full day test drive with an IS 300h and it ticked all the right boxes for me as a car to be used for every day travel - relaxing, quiet, very comfortable for long days behind the wheel, decent handling and to be honest plenty enough power for today's traffic unless you want to be overtaking everything in front of you at every opportunity. I came back from the days test drive and bought a 2 year old IS 300h the next day. I've had it for over 5 years now and have put nearly 80K miles on it myself and have never regretted buying it in all that time, nor missed the BMWs I had in the past. As an every day car in normal driving (not a weekend blast) in town or on the motorway it really is hard to beat. On fuel consumption by the way - over the 80K miles I have not reset the trip and I have achieved a 48mpg average - a good proportion of that motorway miles at a decent pace (I have to be where I need to be at particular times so don't get that much chance to drive particularly economically). The hybrid drive train doesn't suit everyone - it's probably the 80/20 rule. If you are in the 20 that is looking for a more out and out sporting car experience doing more limited mileage probably need to look elsewhere. For everyday longer distances and higher mileage it does a lot of things very well. 

[Linas.P]

That is not the point. Point is, because it is RC-F aka sort of top of the range model... every single part comes at premium. Brakes are brakes, but RC-F one is £1700, yet for some reason very similar size brakes in GS300h are £450. And sure, maybe brakes are bad example, because now there are aftermarket alternatives, but for every single part you will have to pay 3 or 5 times more, just because it is meant for "RC-F". And even then £441 for just discs is ludicrous money... what is it on IS250? £80... and even then when ECP has discounts it's cheaper.

Other thing to note - big issue for RC300h is expectations. If it would be some cheap hatchback, not overly aggressively styled, then one would drive it and would be like... yeah "meh" outside matches the inside nothing to see here. But RC really looks beautiful and fast even at stands still, interior is special place to be in and you expect it wool be special car to drive, but when you try suddenly nothing comes out of it... and that contrast is what makes it feel worse than it actually is. 

[H3XME]

1 minute ago, wharfhouse said:

Everyone to their own - you have tested the car and found that it doesn't fit your needs which is all well and good. You probably need to be in a higher engined BMW coupe to get the feeling you are looking for.

Just as a reference, I came from the larger engined BMW 6 cylinder cars to the IS 300h. Although I do a decent mileage in my cars I wasn't really using the BMWs for how they were designed - too many road restrictions, speed cameras and traffic jams these days. I had a full day test drive with an IS 300h and it ticked all the right boxes for me as a car to be used for every day travel - relaxing, quiet, very comfortable for long days behind the wheel, decent handling and to be honest plenty enough power for today's traffic unless you want to be overtaking everything in front of you at every opportunity. I came back from the days test drive and bought a 2 year old IS 300h the next day. I've had it for over 5 years now and have put nearly 80K miles on it myself and have never regretted buying it in all that time, nor missed the BMWs I had in the past. As an every day car in normal driving (not a weekend blast) in town or on the motorway it really is hard to beat. On fuel consumption by the way - over the 80K miles I have not reset the trip and I have achieved a 48mpg average - a good proportion of that motorway miles at a decent pace (I have to be where I need to be at particular times so don't get that much chance to drive particularly economically). The hybrid drive train doesn't suit everyone - it's probably the 80/20 rule. If you are in the 20 that is looking for a more out and out sporting car experience doing more limited mileage probably need to look elsewhere. For everyday longer distances and higher mileage it does a lot of things very well. 

Thanks for the input, Phil. I would agree there, I had a loan car, IS300h for two days when mine was in for a recall, and I enjoyed it, not going to lie. I can forgive the IS300h for everything I mentioned above, it's an entry level executive saloon, no issues. I just can't help but dislike everything about the RC300h that I didn't mind in the IS300h purely because of what the car represents - a grand tourer. I think Lexus nailed it with RC350 and perhaps even RC-F, but as a hybrid, it's just a no no for this car in my opinion. I didn't think it would be an issue, on paper, but after driving it, I do think it's a problem personally.

[Zotto]

The "lag" feeling is common to all drivers accustomed to associate engine revs  with speed like it happens in cars with manual gears or also in automatic with frictions  and a discrete numbers of gears, and it's a common mistake. An eCVT , where  engine revs are not related to instant speed leaves the driver accustomed to associate sound with speed somewhat confused. It's the same habits that make many people to say electric cars are not sport cars because there is not the roar of a thermal engine.

[H3XME]

10 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

That is not the point. Point is, because it is RC-F aka sort of top of the range model... every single part comes at premium. Brakes are brakes, but RC-F one is £1700, yet for some reason very similar size brakes in GS300h are £450. And sure, maybe brakes are bad example, because now there are aftermarket alternatives, but for every single part you will have to pay 3 or 5 times more, just because it is meant for "RC-F". And even then £441 for just discs is ludicrous money... what is it on IS250? £80... and even then when ECP has discounts it's cheaper.

Other thing to note - big issue for RC300h is expectations. If it would be some cheap hatchback, not overly aggressively styled, then one would drive it and would be like... yeah "meh" outside matches the inside nothing to see here. But RC really looks beautiful and fast even at stands still, interior is special place to be in and you expect it wool be special car to drive, but when you try suddenly nothing comes out of it... and that contrast is what makes it feel worse than it actually is. 

Yeah of course, but it is what it is.. can't expect a top tier car, especially from a manufacturer like Lexus to be cheap in the servicing department and I don't. I don't have issues with that at all, it's not what I'm saying. Hell, having £35k will get you Nissan GT-R and you'll run into the exact same "issue" - running cost. Having driven a GT-R, I know I wouldn't enjoy it day to day as much as RC.. There's nothing luxurious about the GT-R, yet it comes with premium price tag for parts just like the RC-F. Gotta pay for performance - and that being said, RC is something that never should've been available with less than 6 cylinders.

[H3XME]

1 minute ago, Zotto said:

The "lag" feeling is common to all drivers accustomed to associate engine revs  with speed like it happens in cars with manual gears or also in automatic with frictions  and a discrete numbers of gears, and it's a common mistake. An eCVT , where  engine revs are not related to instant speed leaves the driver accustomed to associate sound with speed somewhat confused. It's the same habits that make many people to say electric cars are not sport cars because there is not the roar of a thermal engine.

Perhaps, and it is something people can get used to, it's just that driving the 300h felt like I had to put more effort into speeding up even if its just by 10mph. 

[wharfhouse]

1 minute ago, H3XME said:

Thanks for the input, Phil. I would agree there, I had a loan car, IS300h for two days when mine was in for a recall, and I enjoyed it, not going to lie. I can forgive the IS300h for everything I mentioned above, it's an entry level executive saloon, no issues. I just can't help but dislike everything about the RC300h that I didn't mind in the IS300h purely because of what the car represents - a grand tourer. I think Lexus nailed it with RC350 and perhaps even RC-F, but as a hybrid, it's just a no no for this car in my opinion. I didn't think it would be an issue, on paper, but after driving it, I do think it's a problem personally.

Yes I think that's a reasonable viewpoint. The RC and IS are targeted at different people. I liked the look of the RC but just not practical for what I needed - the IS was the car that fit my requirements and lifestyle. I think buyers looking at an RC do have different requirements / demands of the car which the 300h drive train doesn't deliver against for many of them - it was a shame that they didn't drop a bigger engine or the 450h drive train in the RC - there is always the LC which is starting to get down in price now? 

[Linas.P]

6 minutes ago, H3XME said:

Yeah of course, but it is what it is.. can't expect a top tier car, especially from a manufacturer like Lexus to be cheap in the servicing department and I don't. I don't have issues with that at all, it's not what I'm saying. Hell, having £35k will get you Nissan GT-R and you'll run into the exact same "issue" - running cost. Having driven a GT-R, I know I wouldn't enjoy it day to day as much as RC.. There's nothing luxurious about the GT-R, yet it comes with premium price tag for parts just like the RC-F. Gotta pay for performance - and that being said, RC300h is something that never should've been available with less than 6 cylinders.

Large group of people don't care how car drives (but get's very offended if you state this fact), so I can't say RC300h shouldn't be available, because for many people it is just "good enough". Probably like Phil said - it is 80/20 rule and both of us are firmly in that 20% group. So the problem is not existence of RC300h, the problem is lack of choice for those buyers who would be RC350 type of buyers. It is just ridiculous that Lexus didn't think it would be beneficial to bring that car here, considering they already have it and they already make it and they even make it in RHD for Japan and Australia. And even by sale numbers it would have always been that way 74% 300h, 5% RC200t, 20% RC350 and 1% RC-F. Now you either have to go with 80% of slower car or squeeze 20% into way faster and way more expensive car. 

And here I think again you right - for IS it wasn't so much of an issue. Desirable, but not critical. Practicality and fuel consumption is way more important for family car than it is for "sport coupe". Yes Lexus made questionable decision marketing IS300h as "sports" executive car, because there is nothing sporty about it, but it is less of an issue for entry-lux saloon. Same power plant in coupe is just unacceptable and it sort of reflects in poor sales of RC - in Europe it just didn't have the right engine. 

[Zotto]

Probably  if you would like more power and  wanting a Hybrid you should try a LC500 h.

About maintainance costs, hybrid "sport" car by Lexus are far cheaper compared to their thermal only engine versions; just talking about brakes, they last twice or more time.

[Linas.P]

11 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

Yes I think that's a reasonable viewpoint. The RC and IS are targeted at different people. I liked the look of the RC but just not practical for what I needed - the IS was the car that fit my requirements and lifestyle. I think buyers looking at an RC do have different requirements / demands of the car which the 300h drive train doesn't deliver against for many of them - it was a shame that they didn't drop a bigger engine or the 450h drive train in the RC - there is always the LC which is starting to get down in price now? 

Well... one will certainly be able to afford RC-F, before they can afford LC. And LC despite me absolutely loving it (best car I have ever driven) is very very compromised car, you can't have LC as sole car in household, you must have something else e.g. boot in the car just doesn't exist, to the point where you can't even go shopping in it. Whereas RC with folding seats is relatively practical car - I went hiking in it, it fits two mountain bikes in the back etc.

6 minutes ago, Zotto said:

Probably  if you would like more power and  wanting a Hybrid you should try a LC500 h.

About maintainance costs, hybrid "sport" car by Lexus are far cheaper compared to their thermal only engine versions; just talking about brakes, they last twice or more time.

Once you in the market for LC, then honestly there is very little difference between hybrid and V8 price, just with V8 you get all the joys of V8 and with hybrid you get none of the benefits. Road tax still high, it still isn't practical or economical and driving experience is just not the same. Kind of explains why V8 commands £10k premium in UK, all the rest being equal.

If Lexus would have made RC450h... that would have been another story... it would have been very unique and interesting car to own. 

[wharfhouse]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

Well... one will certainly be able to afford RC-F, before they can afford LC. And LC despite me absolutely loving it (best car I have ever driven) is very very compromised car, you can't have LC as sole car in household, you must have something else e.g. boot in the car just doesn't exist, to the point where you can't even go shopping in it. Whereas RC with folding seats is relatively practical car - I went hiking in it, it fits two mountain bikes in the back etc. 

Yes LC is even more a niche but that's a car I would make more compromises for... Maybe one day... 

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, wharfhouse said:

Yes LC is even more a niche but that's a car I would make more compromises for... Maybe one day... 

Well... the compromise you need to make for it is simply to have RX or NX on the side 😄 

[Zotto]

5 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

 Same power plant in coupe is just unacceptable and it sort of reflects in poor sales of RC - in Europe it just didn't have the right engine. 

It's your usual lithany, Linas , but you don't consider that firstly Lexus is  a luxury brand, if one needs a more sport oriented car may choose a BMW with the proper engine. The right comparison for a RC300h is with another coupe, with a diesel engine to spre fuel, and in some way it's at the same way a nonsense from a perpective of "sport" use from a purist point of view.

[H3XME]

4 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Large group of people don't care how car drives (but get's very offended if you state this fact), so I can't say RC300h shouldn't be available, because for many people it is just "good enough". Probably like Phil said - it is 80/20 rule and both of us are firmly in that 20% group. So the problem is not existence of RC300h, the problem is lack of choice for those buyers who would be RC350 type of buyers. It is just ridiculous that Lexus didn't think it would be beneficial to bring that car here, considering they already have it and they already make it and they even make it in RHD for Japan and Australia. And even by sale numbers it would have always been that way 74% 300h, 5% RC200t, 20% RC350 and 1% RC-F. Now you either have to go with 80% of slower car or squeeze 20% into way faster and way more expensive car. 

Yeah it's a shame, I think they fully missed the boat with this.. We've had Nissan 350Z & 370Z forever here (decent engine GT car), Toyota didn't really have a sports car in the UK until the GT86 and Supra, and even then, those two cars are in a different league to Lexus RC. So by having RC350 here, I think it would appeal to people who ended up with BMW 440i instead. There is no middle ground for this car in the UK. It's either a hybrid (lets ignore 200t since it's almost non-existent) or the extremes of RC-F. I honestly think RC350 would've been such a popular coupe if advertised well. It's true what you say, I talk to my friends about this weekly.. There is virtually nothing to choose from for middle-class enthusiasts as it's either a ****ty engine + looks = affordable or good engine + looks = not affordable. Like I say, almost no middle ground on the UK market these days. If we're talking in New Car terms. 

[Zotto]

2 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Well... the compromise you need to make for it is simply to have RX or NX on the side 😄 

Ehi, I bought  a RX450h after having a GS300h because I was missing V6 engine, but not caring about sportyness 😸

[Linas.P]

Just now, Zotto said:

It's your usual lithany, Linas , but you don't consider that firstly Lexus is  a luxury brand, if one needs a more sport oriented car may choose a BMW with the proper engine. The right comparison for a RC300h is with another coupe, with a diesel engine to spre fuel, and in some way it's at the same way a nonsense from a perpective of "sport" use from a purist point of view.

Don't complain to me. Lexus themselves branded the car as sports car... and if they say so, then I treat it like sports car and compare it to other sports cars. 300 in the name as well means it should be comparable to other "3L" cars like BMW 430i. You can't have it both ways - either it is Sports coupe or it isn't. Lexus says it is, so it gets fair criticism it deserves for being sluggish. 

As well... what is "luxury"? I don't want all out "sports" car like say Porsche Cayman, because it is too basic for me, but "luxury" as well means "effortless acceleration" for me... car fast enough that I wouldn't care reaching the limit of it's power. That is part of luxury for me... it may not be for you, but then whose "litany" it is. Or somehow your opinion carries more value than mime?  

[Zotto]

The right comparison in BMW with RC300h is not 430i but 420d.

I understand it would be nice a RC450h or a 350 only thermal one, but probably is not in the target for Lexus customers.

Besides, in whole european market Lexus will be sold only with electrified models (excepts for top ones and  very few ones): it's a consequence of CO2 limitations.

[Linas.P]

17 minutes ago, Zotto said:

The right comparison in BMW with RC300h is not 430i but 420d.

I understand it would be nice a RC450h or a 350 only thermal one, but probably is not in the target for Lexus customers.

Besides, in whole european market Lexus will be sold only with electrified models (excepts for top ones and  very few ones): it's a consequence of CO2 limitations.

No... in terms of price it isn't. Starting price for RC was £36k (entry level "luxury" trim), 420d was like £32k in 2014, whereas 430i was £35k. 430i M-Sport costed ~£37k and that was like for like comparable with RC200t F-Sport and 300h F-Sport which both costed £37,495 and £37,995 if memory serves. What is even point of this discussion. Are you saying RC isn't sports car or you agreeing that it is as sluggish as much cheaper BMW 420d? Well yes... that is the problem, if BMW 430i would be as slow as 420d, then it would be right to say it is "not very sporty"... right?

And how is RC350 not a "target for Lexus customers", when Lexus made and successfully sold RC350 across the world and overall 2GR-FSE (the 350) is one of the most popular engines and mainstay of the brand?

The last bit is true, but that is future plans and not so relevant for discussing what RC300h was or wasn't.

[dutchie01]

A bit off topic but the 2 litre diesel that BMW used in the 3 and 5 series is one of the best engines i have driven. Torque a plenty and incredibly fuel efficient. 

Btw, coupes from Mercedes, BMW and Audi. Guess what engines are the best sellers...  Hint, 4 pot petrol 156 hp.