ES300H TAKUMI - wheel arch CAN BUS theft

[DrShockr]

2 hours ago, SH20 said:

The air tag won't prevent a car's theft but will locate it.   

 

Believe it or not, I had an AirTag in the boot, it didn't help much, I went to the location it said it was in and scoured the area, the police were also there and helped for a good hour or so (surprising, I know!) but the car was nowhere to be seen. 

[NICO1972]

On 11/25/2023 at 10:35 AM, PDM said:

I believe it stops them starting the car but I don't know - and would like to - if it stops them from being able to unlock the vehicle.

Paul

I had a ghost immobiliser fitted with Metatrak Plus and it did a great job: I had 2 attempted thefts with my ES in mid Sept and in mid Oct and Both times, thieves were unsuccessful. But bumper was damaged and including loom cable... Sadly, when I got the car back 2 weeks ago, I immediately sold it for another make... I honestly did not want to depart from my lovely ES but I was not prepared to risk a third attempt...

[NICO1972]

1 minute ago, DrShockr said:

Believe it or not, I had an AirTag in the boot, it didn't help much, I went to the location it said it was in and scoured the area, the police were also there and helped for a good hour or so (surprising, I know!) but the car was nowhere to be seen. 

This is awful. you did not have an immobiliser fitted in like Metatrak Plus? I consider myself really lucky that they failed to steal my car on the 2 attempts. Now my experience with Audi A6 Avant Quattro Black Edition S Line 2018 C7 is quite an awesome experience, I must say. I really hope you get a good payment from your insurance. Did you take a GAP cover when you purchased the vehicle?

I guess you reported the situation with your Lexus Dealership and they must be feeling rather annoyed and embarrassed... It is frustrating.

[PDM]

23 minutes ago, NICO1972 said:

I had a ghost immobiliser fitted with Metatrak Plus and it did a great job: I had 2 attempted thefts with my ES in mid Sept and in mid Oct and Both times, thieves were unsuccessful. But bumper was damaged and including loom cable... Sadly, when I got the car back 2 weeks ago, I immediately sold it for another make... I honestly did not want to depart from my lovely ES but I was not prepared to risk a third attempt...

Nick, did ghost stop them getting inside the car, or just stop them starting it?

Thanks,

Paul

[NICO1972]

33 minutes ago, PDM said:

Nick, did ghost stop them getting inside the car, or just stop them starting it?

Thanks,

Paul

The ghost stopped them from getting inside the car and they could not do anything else on both occasions. It is impossible to start the engine without the fob with key so Metatrak Plus is brilliant in that aspect and it has a tracker too. If the car gets towed away, you will get an immediate call from Metatrak to warn you and they will ring the Police on your behalf if this is what has happened. Their system is very good.

[LenT]

1 hour ago, NICO1972 said:

I had a ghost immobiliser fitted with Metatrak Plus and it did a great job: I had 2 attempted thefts with my ES in mid Sept and in mid Oct and Both times, thieves were unsuccessful. But bumper was damaged and including loom cable...

So the system foiled two CanBUS attacks, but the car suffered extensive damage because, presumably, the thieves didn’t know the system was installed and they not only could be wasting their time but also increasing the risk of discovery.

Or if the car displayed warning labels, they either thought it could be defeated or the labels were a con.  

It’s also interesting to ponder if these were two different gangs or the first lot returning for a second attempt.  Because if word gets around that this system successfully foils CanBUS attacks, then it becomes worthwhile to advertise its installation.  

Do you plan to have it installed in to your new, non-Lexus car on the basis that it’s an effective deterrent and the car is less attractive to the thieves?
 

 

[NICO1972]

5 minutes ago, LenT said:

So the system foiled two CanBUS attacks, but the car suffered extensive damage because, presumably, the thieves didn’t know the system was installed and they not only could be wasting their time but also increasing the risk of discovery.

Or if the car displayed warning labels, they either thought it could be defeated or the labels were a con.  

It’s also interesting to ponder if these were two different gangs or the first lot returning for a second attempt.  Because if word gets around that this system successfully foils CanBUS attacks, then it becomes worthwhile to advertise its installation.  

Do you plan to have it installed in to your new, non-Lexus car on the basis that it’s an effective deterrent and the car is less attractive to the thieves?
 

 

I have, for a matter of fact, installed the same ghost immobiliser in with my new vehicle for peace of mind...

[NICO1972]

6 minutes ago, LenT said:

So the system foiled two CanBUS attacks, but the car suffered extensive damage because, presumably, the thieves didn’t know the system was installed and they not only could be wasting their time but also increasing the risk of discovery.

Or if the car displayed warning labels, they either thought it could be defeated or the labels were a con.  

It’s also interesting to ponder if these were two different gangs or the first lot returning for a second attempt.  Because if word gets around that this system successfully foils CanBUS attacks, then it becomes worthwhile to advertise its installation.  

Do you plan to have it installed in to your new, non-Lexus car on the basis that it’s an effective deterrent and the car is less attractive to the thieves?
 

 

It is difficult to say if they are the same thieves but I suspect they could be since they knew where the car was for the second attempt. The thing is even if you have a ghost immobiliser, the thieves can still do some damage with the ES ie bumper and loom cable. This issue can still be a problem for the more secured ES 2023 and above (as encrypted CANBUS is programmed instead of 'open' program for all previous ES models) as thieves may try the same technique pulling the bumper out (damaging it) and cutting the loom cable. The risk is very serious as if loom cable cannot be repaired then, you would be looking at near £6k cost for the replacement loom, which would take 3 months at least wait... It would be an insurance claim but overall, the premiums will rise dramatically...

Under these circumstances, Lexus should have reviewed this problem much sooner to try and mitigate the vulnerability. It is pretty serious and sadly more of us who owns or owned a Lexus ES will agree with this. Lexus will be loosing customers in the long run. Sad but a fact. 

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

7 hours ago, LenT said:

 

Not withstanding the specific responsibilities of car makers, I think this is a valid point to make.  It is of course arguable that many makers, such as Lexus, could improve their theft prevention systems - not least to compete with their rivals.

But as far as I am aware - and I stand to be corrected here - there are no equivalent manufacturing standards for theft prevention as there are for passenger protection or car safety.  
For example, Thatcham assess vehicle security and accessories as a guide to Insurers but not as something mandatory for manufacturers.

Take Household Insurance.  My policy stipulates a specific standard of security on different floors.   If they can prove non-compliance it will invalidate a claim.  These days new builds have the Police-promoted ‘Secured by Design’, that establishes standards ranging from safety and the security measures of construction sites to internal and external security standards for domestic dwellings - which includes locks, lighting and alarms.

Different standard levels qualify for different levels of Certification.  

Unfortunately there seems to be no such equivalent for the car industry.   And it has to be appreciated that in many cases it’s the very people who design and install security systems who are best informed as to how to bypass them - generally for perfectly legitimate reasons.  But eventually such knowledge inevitably gets out.

The result is that there is no car that cannot be stolen - as there is no house that cannot be burgled and no bank vault that cannot be penetrated.

So what we have is the usual arms race between owner and thief over possessions - but expecting the possession to do much of the work.  No doubt Lexus could do more to keep pace with criminals - as could the entire motor industry.  

I suspect that the damage done to the brand image by the increasing publicity that Lexus thefts are attracting - and the increasing problem of insurance - that will ultimately be more effective at prompting investment and change than owners’ complaints!

Lots Of Good Comments here Len .. Very profound and could,nt Agree More

[Spock66]

So if third party companies can develop solutions that can be retrofitted relatively easily then surely Lexus could and should offer a solution.

[mister_johnn]

Thank you for the messages and support.

I just wanted to bring some updates... so far nothing, the car is still stolen... last night I got a bit hopeful as an article from BBC was saying that a thief was caught in Grays and had a Lexus, but it was an NX300h... full article here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-67526914.amp

Also wanted to add an interesting article from JLR:

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-12774935/Jaguar-Land-Rover-older-models-Range-Rover-security-tech-keyless-theft.html?fbclid=IwAR0Rv7IF9K0aUeL1lxHn3vtFL-klUjEnpLSYPWDvMbFZkdoHafAtDDyvsWw

JLR is doing something about their theft issue, maybe is not the perfect solution, but at least they are trying, they admit they have a problem and are trying to fix it.

The thing that annoys me the most is that Lexus could have done an awareness leaflet (email) for every person buying, owning, servicing, or anything to do with having a car from them or using a service they offer, saying that they are aware of the increased numbers of Lexus (or Toyota) being stolen via CAN method and encourage the use or fitting of extra deterrents (steering wheel lock, immobilizer, tracker...), this way people can are aware and prepare.
I was servicing my car at Lexus every few months, so they had plenty of opportunities to make me aware. I'm not referring only to me, other people don't use forums or they trust the brand too much to think that this can happen to them, or maybe they think that the car is bulletproof against theft or they don't use the internet to keep up to date, maybe other reasons...

Lexus (and Toyota) are losing customers because of this, I won't be buying another Lexus, and if my car is recovered I will sell it straight away... I'm still hopeful... but I'm aware of the fact that even if I'm adding extra deterrents to keep it from being stolen the thieves will still try to steal it and damage will be done every single time... to replace the cable and front bumper is around 6K... In the last week, I got in touch with quite a few people who were in similar positions, Lexus owners... if their stolen car didn't have a tracking system or immobilizer it was never recovered... if they had a tracking system or immobilizer then they were left with the car, but damaged... one person had 4 attempts and after being repaired 3 times (bumper and wiring loom, which takes a few weeks for parts to be delivered and fitted, insurance premium goes up) the 4th time the thieves decided to cut all seats... so far everyone which had their car stolen or vandalized had moved away from Lexus... just by curiosity, try to go to a Lexus dealer and ask if they want your car... they might say that their stock is full... more and more people are realising the hard way that this is not a great car to own because of theft... other than that is amazing, reliable, fuel-efficient...
I know that not everyone will agree with me, but I do hope that people are being informed more by the manufacturers... It's a game of cat and mouse, thieves are always finding new ways of stealing, but the manufacturers can make a difference by at least keeping their customers informed and aware...
Sorry for the long post, but I do hope this will be read and shared with other Lexus (or Toyota owners)... and I do hope that they are heading in the right direction, maybe trying to fix the problem like JLR... maybe other manufacturers...

Have a great day and I'll keep you updated if anything exciting happens.... 
 

[NICO1972]

34 minutes ago, mister_johnn said:

Thank you for the messages and support.

Just wanted to bring some kind of update... so far nothing, the car is stolen... last night I got a bit hopefully as an article from BBC was saying that a thief was caught in Grays and has a Lexus, but it was a NX300h... full article here:

Thanks but I think you forgot to disclose the article. Would love to read this...

[mister_johnn]

11 minutes ago, NICO1972 said:

Thanks but I think you forgot to disclose the article. Would love to read this...

I posted by mistake... I had to make and edit and now should all the information required... Please check my edited post above. Thank you!

[mister_johnn]

On 11/25/2023 at 4:13 PM, DrShockr said:

Quote

I am very disappointed to report that my car has been stolen, once again, this time neither myself or the police were able to locate it. The car had a full steering wheel lock on at the time. 

Really sorry to hear that you had to go through this a 2nd time and I hope it will get sorted soon without major consequences in your insurance premium.

Just wanted to ask how long did it take for the insurance company to make the payment 1st time? I'm in the same boat and wanted to know if the payment you received was accurate, to the car's value at the date which was stolen.

Next time get a tracking system and immobilizer, keep the steering wheel lock as an extra deterrent. But keep in mind that you will suffer the consequences again in case they try to steal it and they will fail, damage will be done. I've made a longer post in the thread Another ES Stolen...

[mister_johnn]

JLR admited thay have a flaw in the system and trying to fix it from their pocket, maybe it's not the best system, but at least they are trying.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-12774935/Jaguar-Land-Rover-older-models-Range-Rover-security-tech-keyless-theft.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

Lexus does nothing but loose it's customers, not even a theft prevention leaflet or email. I know it happens to all car manufacturers, but at least try to give the head's up because they know that these cars are vulnerable and the number of stolen Lexus (or Toyota) are on the rise. I trusted Lexus, owned 2 of their cars, but now my trust is broken.

[mister_johnn]

Is it just me or has someone just merged the threads about stolen ES cars?
Now everything is mixed and messages might not make sense... 😡

[Cs150]

8 hours ago, mister_johnn said:

Thank you for the messages and support.

I just wanted to bring some updates... so far nothing, the car is still stolen... last night I got a bit hopeful as an article from BBC was saying that a thief was caught in Grays and had a Lexus, but it was an NX300h... full article here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-67526914.amp

Also wanted to add an interesting article from JLR:

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-12774935/Jaguar-Land-Rover-older-models-Range-Rover-security-tech-keyless-theft.html?fbclid=IwAR0Rv7IF9K0aUeL1lxHn3vtFL-klUjEnpLSYPWDvMbFZkdoHafAtDDyvsWw

JLR is doing something about their theft issue, maybe is not the perfect solution, but at least they are trying, they admit they have a problem and are trying to fix it.

The thing that annoys me the most is that Lexus could have done an awareness leaflet (email) for every person buying, owning, servicing, or anything to do with having a car from them or using a service they offer, saying that they are aware of the increased numbers of Lexus (or Toyota) being stolen via CAN method and encourage the use or fitting of extra deterrents (steering wheel lock, immobilizer, tracker...), this way people can are aware and prepare.
I was servicing my car at Lexus every few months, so they had plenty of opportunities to make me aware. I'm not referring only to me, other people don't use forums or they trust the brand too much to think that this can happen to them, or maybe they think that the car is bulletproof against theft or they don't use the internet to keep up to date, maybe other reasons...

Lexus (and Toyota) are losing customers because of this, I won't be buying another Lexus, and if my car is recovered I will sell it straight away... I'm still hopeful... but I'm aware of the fact that even if I'm adding extra deterrents to keep it from being stolen the thieves will still try to steal it and damage will be done every single time... to replace the cable and front bumper is around 6K... In the last week, I got in touch with quite a few people who were in similar positions, Lexus owners... if their stolen car didn't have a tracking system or immobilizer it was never recovered... if they had a tracking system or immobilizer then they were left with the car, but damaged... one person had 4 attempts and after being repaired 3 times (bumper and wiring loom, which takes a few weeks for parts to be delivered and fitted, insurance premium goes up) the 4th time the thieves decided to cut all seats... so far everyone which had their car stolen or vandalized had moved away from Lexus... just by curiosity, try to go to a Lexus dealer and ask if they want your car... they might say that their stock is full... more and more people are realising the hard way that this is not a great car to own because of theft... other than that is amazing, reliable, fuel-efficient...
I know that not everyone will agree with me, but I do hope that people are being informed more by the manufacturers... It's a game of cat and mouse, thieves are always finding new ways of stealing, but the manufacturers can make a difference by at least keeping their customers informed and aware...
Sorry for the long post, but I do hope this will be read and shared with other Lexus (or Toyota owners)... and I do hope that they are heading in the right direction, maybe trying to fix the problem like JLR... maybe other manufacturers...

Have a great day and I'll keep you updated if anything exciting happens.... 
 

Extremely thoughtful and well written post. Been trying to offload my ES for a few weeks now and have interacted with multiple Lexus dealers over the planned disposal. It has been most telling the interaction with them and when the sale is completed will provide a post about the experience.

[peniole]

1 hour ago, Cs150 said:

Extremely thoughtful and well written post. Been trying to offload my ES for a few weeks now and have interacted with multiple Lexus dealers over the planned disposal. It has been most telling the interaction with them and when the sale is completed will provide a post about the experience.

Would be interested in hearing about your experience

[DrShockr]

3 hours ago, mister_johnn said:

Is it just me or has someone just merged the threads about stolen ES cars?
Now everything is mixed and messages might not make sense... 😡

I've just noticed this too and am very confused!

[mister_johnn]

Message towards the admins of this page:

Why did you end up merging the conversations about our stolen Lexus ES?

I understand that these are similar issues, but different stories with different outcomes which I was following, and I'm sure other people too. We have something to learn from every thread.

By merging the conversations you have created confusion because all conversations are mixed (these are sorted by date and time), extremely hard to read and follow, nothing makes sense, plus the title makes a new member feel like this is only to do with the Takumi version (misleading). This should be changed to "WARNING LEXUS THEFT - CAN method" (or something similar) and be pinned to all Lexus forums at the top. People will be more interested to know that their car can be easily stolen than fixing a rattle or something else that is fixable.

I know that this might not be the case, but this feels like it was made on purpose to make the reader skip reading because the stories are hard to read, and don't make sense.

For example:
- one was stolen having the Disklock steering wheel protector, which should be the best. We learned that is better than other ones but it can still be removed, and it helps as a deterrent.
- one was tried to be stolen, but the owner had a MetaTrak S5 Plus with the tag, which helped in not having the car stolen. We learned that it definitely helps as a deterrent, but damage to the car will still be done and the repair can last quite some time or be very costly, about £6.000, and the insurance premium will go up with every claim even if this is a non-fault.
- one was tried to be stolen but the owner fitted an immobilizer and a tracking system, was 3 times repaired (wiring loom and bumper replacement), and 4th time the thieves also cut all the seats plus needed the normal repair (wiring loom and bumper replacement). This one I found out from a group on Facebook.
- most of the people relied on the brand Lexus and had no idea that it could be stolen so easily, ended up without a car. We learned that GAP insurance is well recommended.
- maybe more...

Overall we are learning to adapt, and is hard for most of us because we love the brand, but we feel like we are being left out. Lexus could have done something to make us aware, and not only us from this forum but all Lexus owners (Toyota included). The way we adapt is by moving away from the brand... which is sad and not beneficial for Lexus, you are losing customers, you are losing money, you are losing us.

I've added also a few pictures with some posts about stolen Lexus cars from a Facebook group, but this is just one of them, there are many groups to be found related to stolen cars depending on the region, some people post on local groups, some use X (Twitter), some people don't use social media, and so on... It's sad that our cars were and are stolen, but this is the reality.

I'll try to keep you posted in case anything exciting happens related to my stolen car... but I feel discouraged to continue posting because other people have different stories mixed in the same thread, and I don't want to break the line...

P.S. Yesterday on my way home I saw a Lexus ES on a driveway, and felt the need to inform the owner about stolen Lexus cars. The car didn't seem like it had anything fitted (theft prevention) so I knocked on the door, I've let the owner know about this issue so he can prepare. The owner was very happy to know this even if it wasn't what he wanted to hear about his car. Felt good... 🙂

[peniole]

JLR are being loud about retrofiting "all" their 2018-onward models "The company says keepers of post-2018 Range Rovers, Defenders, Discoverys and Jaguars should be eligible for the security updates." Bold emphasis mine. Was in a JLR dealership yesterday, and yes they are retrofitting LR vehicles, but not Jaguars according to their sales and service departments. While both J &LR share the same systems, they are addressing LRs as they are the most visible. Jag owners are SOL despite having cars with the same vulerabilities.

Sound familiar? RX thefts visible (top 10) = fit free plates. Every other lexus with same vulnerability = SOL.

Prime example of bottom line market economy. None of us should be surprised by Lexus behaviour.

Before someone points out, the whole cost, something for nothing soliloquy. I had offered to pay for a modified plate/whatever solution they come up with. Answer was still no. Bye bye Lexus.

[ColinBarber]

9 hours ago, peniole said:

Sound familiar? RX thefts visible (top 10) = fit free plates. Every other lexus with same vulnerability = SOL.

Or if you have a RAV4, get charged £70 to have plates fitted. 

[mister_johnn]

If anyone is interested in the device used to steal our cars, I found this article and it has all details:

https://kentindell.github.io/2023/04/03/can-injection/

So far my car is still missing, is 2 weeks now and I don't think I'll ever find it.

In case your car was stolen from London or around, try looking for it in the area from Barking all the way to Grays because it seems that there's no CCTV around and many cars are being left to "cool down" before they are shipped abroad, the location is quite close to the river and docks for easy shipping. My neighbours car was stolen this Tuesday from around Kingston and was found Friday morning in Rainham on a small road.

[ColinBarber]

54 minutes ago, mister_johnn said:

If anyone is interested in the device used to steal our cars, I found this article and it has all details:

https://kentindell.github.io/2023/04/03/can-injection/

This has been posted before on the RX forum:

 

[macdoir]

Had an attempted theft of my 23 plate ES300  this morning at 6:15 in east London. It was a can-bus attempt through left headlamp.

Looks like the cable got stuck stopping them getting access. When I was reattaching the cable I thought that using tie wraps to restrict the  cable movement might prevent access to the port if the cable could  not stretch to the wheel well. Its looks easy to try, remove the pollen filter then secure cable to bracket for wiring loom.

It won't stop them trying but may prevent loss of car.