Motor Cyclist 1 - Wing Mirror 0

[Scorpion]

If you check your mirrors regularly and you see a m/cyclist,and your about to change lane and maybe cross paths the one bit of advise i could give you is to wait until he has passed,thus saving your w/mirrors :D

[mcwatson]

If you check your mirrors regularly and you see a m/cyclist,and your about to change lane and maybe cross paths the one bit of advise i could give you is to wait until he has passed,thus saving your w/mirrors

Sound advice but I check my mirrors all the time and the bike just wasn't there. Yes, he obviously was there somewhere but not visible when I commenced my lane crossing. Not being funny but you had to be there to understand my predicament. I'm quite an alert driver and as mentioned already, I'm respectful to cyclists (apart from this one who I have found out lives locally to me so just a matter of time till he's on the same route again!)

[tdiplc]

I can't comment on any individal case but I can see this from both perspectives.

Without doubt there a few stupid bike riders around (especially the young ones that haven't found out how hard the road is yet), but I am convinced there are far more studid car drivers than stupid bike riders (because stupid bike riders have a very short life expectancy).

My steed for the last couple of years has been a Suzuki Hayabusa GSXR1300 which is not a small bike or hard to see, and has VERY powerful lights. Every time I use it I know that I have to think for every car driver around me because they can't be bothered or don't know how to use their mirrors and are totally unaware of their surroundings. I have taken to riding around with the main beams on all of the time (which is a lot of fire power). The amount of candle power in their rear view mirrow should be enough to burn their retina's but the idiots still don't see me

Sometimes when I'm driving a car, I get a bike rider sitting behind me in a blind spot - idiot. It does work both ways so I guess it's an intelligence issue.

[Matthew_McNally]

The amount of candle power in their rear view mirrow should be enough to burn their retina's but the idiots still don't see me

maybe its because they have just been blinded?

never been a biker, but the way I see it, its simple Darwinism in action.

You are completely exposed - yet you weave in between cars (huge hunks of metal that can be fatal to you), drive between them at speeds faster than the cars are moving?

If bikers stayed with the lanes marked on the road, this thread would not exist

[Scorpion]

maybe its because they have just been blinded?

Thats what it takes though Matt to get noticed. ;)

[dlayen]

I can't comment on any individal case but I can see this from both perspectives.

Without doubt there a few stupid bike riders around (especially the young ones that haven't found out how hard the road is yet), but I am convinced there are far more studid car drivers than stupid bike riders (because stupid bike riders have a very short life expectancy).

My steed for the last couple of years has been a Suzuki Hayabusa GSXR1300 which is not a small bike or hard to see, and has VERY powerful lights. Every time I use it I know that I have to think for every car driver around me because they can't be bothered or don't know how to use their mirrors and are totally unaware of their surroundings. I have taken to riding around with the main beams on all of the time (which is a lot of fire power). The amount of candle power in their rear view mirrow should be enough to burn their retina's but the idiots still don't see me

Sometimes when I'm driving a car, I get a bike rider sitting behind me in a blind spot - idiot. It does work both ways so I guess it's an intelligence issue.

i think you've said everything i was thinking , i also ride with full beam when filtering.

it's clear that a huge number of car drivers do not use there mirrors how many times do you sit behind a car and you can't see there eye's/face in any of the mirrors. how can they see behind them then?

how many time's have you seen a police car behind a car in the outside lane horn's and light's and the car doesn't move because they are in there own little world.

matt ride abike you will have a totally different perspective on car drivers i only passed my test 3 years ago never riden a bike before that it's totally changed the why i drive..

cbt should be compulsary when taking car test it would grately improve the safety on road's

[Plex]

If you check your mirrors regularly and you see a m/cyclist,and your about to change lane and maybe cross paths the one bit of advise i could give you is to wait until he has passed,thus saving your w/mirrors :D

I have never ridden a bike but I have always pulled into the left to allow bikes to pass. In a traffic jam most of us tend to look for bikers on the right, why should I pull to the right in on-coming traffic if I'm in outside lane. When they ride between the 2 lanes, I think that it is their responsibility to make sure cars are not moving back into the left lane. Using a bit of road sense we should accept that the guy in the left lane would be the one to look for bikes while the biker watch for cars coming from outside lane. My reasoning is that its too easy for the guys in outside lane to re-act to oncoming traffic and have to move in closer to cars in left lane, especially if an emergency vehicle is coming the other way.

All this then makes one wonder why bikers are allowed to ride between cars? And why do we accept that a ****** off road user can take out frustration on your car. Does that mean if we had handguns the motorist can then step out and use biker as target practice? We need to curb our anger and frustration on the streets because you never know if the guy next to you has just had the worst day in his life.

[Bazza]

If you check your mirrors regularly and you see a m/cyclist,and your about to change lane and maybe cross paths the one bit of advise i could give you is to wait until he has passed,thus saving your w/mirrors :D

I have never ridden a bike but I have always pulled into the left to allow bikes to pass. In a traffic jam most of us tend to look for bikers on the right, why should I pull to the right in on-coming traffic if I'm in outside lane. When they ride between the 2 lanes, I think that it is their responsibility to make sure cars are not moving back into the left lane. Using a bit of road sense we should accept that the guy in the left lane would be the one to look for bikes while the biker watch for cars coming from outside lane. My reasoning is that its too easy for the guys in outside lane to re-act to oncoming traffic and have to move in closer to cars in left lane, especially if an emergency vehicle is coming the other way.

All this then makes one wonder why bikers are allowed to ride between cars? And why do we accept that a ****** off road user can take out frustration on your car. Does that mean if we had handguns the motorist can then step out and use biker as target practice? We need to curb our anger and frustration on the streets because you never know if the guy next to you has just had the worst day in his life.

on a dual carriageway where there is multiple lanes of traffic, the worst place for a bike to be is on the far right, this is where all the crap congregates from the road, a few stones from the central reservation can play havoc to a bike rider

or where no central reservation exists they are then forced into incoming traffic !

[UKPulse]

As a biker of some 25+ years my motto is "Ride as though every motorist is out to kill you", in other words - ride defensively.

As a car driver of more than 20 years my motto is "Assume every biker is out to kill him(her)self", so drive defensively.

In a traffic jam or in very slow moving traffic on a dual carriageway or m-way, I'll filter thru but only 5-10mph faster than the cars. Never kicked or thumped anyone's car. At traffic lights I'll filter to the front if there's space to do so safely - it's no inconvenience to car drivers at the front as I'll be away before they've taken the handbrake off! :D

My advice to car drivers when a bike comes up behind them would be - don't pull in to the kerb as your tyres can throw up stones and other rubbish at the side of the road. Stay at the speed you're doing, maybe exaggerate the act of looking in your rear-view mirror to let the biker know you're aware he's there, and leave sufficient space between you and the car in front for him to overtake into. You shouldn't need to slow down at all, any half decent bike will have easily enough power and will overtake if and when they want to. If they don't have the horses to pull past, well they should have bought a bigger bike! :P

[mcwatson]

Sensible experience expressed by UKPulse I'd say. Personally, it never occurred to me that moving 'right over' is bad for motorbikes cos I never realised it throws up the rubbish from the road, only ever thought it helped them but will remember in the future. And riding between lanes of traffic is okay in my opinion as long as the speed is sympathetic to the conditions ie. speed of cars, daylight, possibility of lane changing!! 5-10mph seems sensible to me as its enough time for ALL to see whose there and what potential activites might be about to happen.

Anyway, as for the original incident that started this thread, I've just handed in this morning, my Road Traffic Incident/Accident report that the Met Police asked me to complete so the offending rider should be hearing from the traffic police within the next 28 days. He's probably forgotten by then but as long as he gets a talking too, that will do me. Had more damage been done, I'd have taken it further!!

[Fmrl]

I was watching that Traffic Cops programme on BBC last night and they mentioned a really frightening statistic... Motorcycles account for only 1% of road traffic but motorcyclists account for 20% of road fatalities.

[Fmrl]

Anyway, as for the original incident that started this thread, I've just handed in this morning, my Road Traffic Incident/Accident report that the Met Police asked me to complete so the offending rider should be hearing from the traffic police within the next 28 days. He's probably forgotten by then but as long as he gets a talking too, that will do me. Had more damage been done, I'd have taken it further!!

Good for you. I think what the biker did to your car is inexcusable and he needs a good talking to. IMHO anyone who condones this type of "roadside justice" is just asking for trouble.

[squarehead]

You could always see if he is a member of an Owners club on the net!

Most insurance companies on the net tell you what the vehicle is when you type in the registration for a quote.

Not that I'm condoning anything illegal, I think your p****d off about it big time and maybe you could have it out with him over a forum (you never know!)

[MAC_600]

 

Driving between lanes is illegal

No it is not - it is not covered by any traffic law, however it can be deemed as dangerous driving if a police officer thinks it was excessive. The general rule is that it is ok to filter past slow moving traffic, though at no more than 10-20 mph faster than the flow.

You can bet that if I see a gap where I can start moving across to an exit a motorcycle will whizz past at that point.

So in otherwords you were so pre-occupied looking to exit you failed to see another vehicle !! :duh:

 

I don't appreciate the extra stress of always having to be aware that another vehicle may suddenly be at the side of me in my lane just cms away and that the slightest sideward movement because of wind, camber, pothole etc could result in a collision.

If looking out for what is around you causes you stress then maybe you should use public transport and rely on others to do the driving :winky:

[MAC_600]

As far as I know, it's illegal for motorcyclists to filter on the zigzag lines and they can be given points and a fine for doing so (if caught by the Police of course).

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You can overtake stationary traffic on zig zags up to the lead car legally, you are not allowed to pass the lead car though.

[MAC_600]

I was watching that Traffic Cops programme on BBC last night and they mentioned a really frightening statistic... Motorcycles account for only 1% of road traffic but motorcyclists account for 20% of road fatalities.

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The same stats also show that in instances of accidents involving a motorcyclist and another vehicle, someting like 75% of these are caused by the other vehicle

There has been a recent increase in the number of bike accidents where no other vehicle is involved, this is often blamed on the number of born again bikers getting a bike again after several years of not riding. The difference between the old bikes and the new is vast.

The latest crop of superbikes will put out arounf 150 bhp at the rear wheel and weigh in at around 170kg. Bikes such as the ZX12 and Hayabusa can be putting out about 170 bhp and weigh around the 200kg mark.

Even "Commuter" bikes can top 130 mph and have 0-60 of under 5 seconds.

[chib1177]

Come on lets be honest hear, yes its true that as car drivers we dont use our mirrors enough and we are often more proccupied with other things than the actual driving aspect, but i live in the national park of north yorkshire and i use the moor roads every day and during the summer it becomes a race track for bikers who show no consideration to other motorists and ride at speeds well in excess of the speed limit.

Their are numerous blind junctions and junctions at the top of crests that are difficult to pull out of at the best of times but when the bikers are approaching at over 80mph it makes it a lottery. And unfortunately its a risk that they take which has LED to so many of them being killed over the last few years. The way they overtake between oncoming cars causing a third lane in the centre of the road at break neck speed is so dangerous its untrue. And during the summer just gone I counted a total of 26 bikes overtaking on solid white lines on my way home one afternoon. Some car drivers are not much better i agree, but when you have got someone in control of such a powerful machine that is capable of incredible acceleration there is always going to be conflict and its usually the bikes that come off worst.

Lets be honest the faster and more powerful your vehicle is the more you overtake its just human nature

whether we like it or not speed does kill

ive been to numerous fatal accidents in my line of work and cant think of more than 2 or 3 that were not caused by excessive speed by one of the vehicles involved.

To be balanced though I have to say that i have seen bikers killed when people have pulled out of junctions right in front of them and no fault of the biker at all. The depressing thing about that is that if the biker had been in a car it would have LED to nothing more than a slight accident.

we all make mistakes i just hope that when i make mine im driving my lexus at the time and not my bike !!!

[rayg]

Right just to add my view, excuse me if I repeat any thing but I have only scanned the topics.

Filtering between lanes is fine if your sensible. when I do it I have the full beam on and always assume a car is going to switch lanes at the last minute, but thats the risk you take going between traffic!

Its the same as traffic lights, why wait for the que to go down when you can go to the front of the que with no problem. The people behind you don't have to wait any longer because your at the front. B)

As for the biker punching your mirror ok its out of order but if you pulled out on him and caused him danger then I would probably do the same thing in the heat of the moment, obviously we've only heard your side (not that I'm sticking up for the bike :winky: )

[Fmrl]

I was watching that Traffic Cops programme on BBC last night and they mentioned a really frightening statistic... Motorcycles account for only 1% of road traffic but motorcyclists account for 20% of road fatalities.

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The same stats also show that in instances of accidents involving a motorcyclist and another vehicle, someting like 75% of these are caused by the other vehicle

I'm not saying it's the fault of the bikers it's just shocking to hear that so many of them are killed.

[mudzs]

Full beam blinds car drivers in their mirrors and cars comming the other way ,perhaps we should all do it if it is so acceptable for a bike to do it .

why should the bike be able to go first ,the amount of times a bike has got in front of me at the lights and then pulled away far slower than i would have ,be a different story if a bike was at the lights and a car went around it and sat in front would it not.we also presume all bikes will make it away quicker than a car and this is not true in the case of the 50cc moped that do's hold up everyone else

as for punching someones mirror ,will this not just make the situation far worse as i would think most car drivers would retaliate and wack the bike driver back,we all make mistakes when driving and some idiot on a bike filtering between lanes just makes the liklelyhood of an accident far more likely.

[rayg]

Full beem on when filtering through static traffic I think is fine, all your doing is trying to make people more away that you are coming up the middle. When you are at normall speed and single dual carigeways then full beem isn't acceptable unless there is no traffic in both directions.

Obviously 50cc bikes are going to have a slow getaway and the majority of them are only about 12 and don't have much road sense, but the giverment makes them rules!

[mudzs]

50cc was just an example ,most bikes will pull away slower than a 3 litre automatic car from the lights when you take into consideration reation times etc.full beam is never acceptable if you are behind or facing traffic that is what dipped beam is for and people can still see that without being blinded .

[MAC_600]

50cc was just an example ,most bikes will pull away slower than a 3 litre automatic car from the lights when you take into consideration reation times etc.

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Ohhhh that sounds like a challenge :D

Mudzs, allowing for similar reaction times, you would be left for dead by any half decent bike.

Just out of interest, do you also get upset by pedestrians and cyclists passing you as you are sat in a queue?

[mudzs]

most bikes ??, i have owned plenty of bikes in my time and lost two very good friends due to them so am more than qualified to know the speeds they can do ??,and i was refering to the initial pull away which is all down to the drivers reaction ,and in responce to your second question wot has that got to do with it ,it aint about people passing me its about people jumping queues ,if you was in tescos getting your shopping i am sure you would get ****** if someone came up the outside and went to the front ,at the end of the day its all about manners and respect for others and if i am at a set of lights right up against the white line why should a bike be able to just go in front ,most of the time they cross the lights to do this then just sit in front of you ,just out of curiousity what would you do if you was on your big powerfull machine and someone in a mini metro pulled in front of you at the lights and blocked your way.

[MAC_600]

i was refering to the initial pull away which is all down to the drivers reaction

It's also about power/weight of the vehicle. Assuming both driver/rider are concentrating on the lights, a car is going to have to have serious power to out drag a bike.

in responce to  your second question wot has that got to do with it ,it aint about people passing me its about people jumping queues ,if you was in tescos getting your shopping i am sure you would get ******

Your comparing a situation where someone's actions hold me up. The reality is that it is more like you are in a queue at tescos and someone goes to the front to get a leaflet from the checkout and then walks away. They haven't held you up or delayed you in anyway, so what's the problem?

if someone came up the outside and went to the front ,at the end of the day its all about manners and respect for others and if i am at a set of lights right up against the white line why should a bike be able to just go in front ,most of the time they cross the lights to do this then just sit in front of you

So how has this delayed or inconvenienced you in any way? I made the comment about the cyclists/pedestrians for a reason. They are a different form of transport and like motorbikes are small enough to not get stuck in a traffic jam. The fact that they pass you is a bonus for their means of transport over a car.

Put it another way, you are on a narrow lane following a tractor pulling a trailer, you would expect that the tractor would pull over and let you pass as you are not limited to his speed. The same is true for bikes/cyclists and there should be no issue with them passing you and moving to the front.

just out of curiousity what would you do if you was on your big powerfull machine and someone in a mini metro pulled in front of you at the lights and blocked your way.

You have just made my point for me - if he blocked my way and slowed me down, I'd be annoyed. However as most traffic lights are near/on traffic islands, I also be well impressed at his/her ability to squeeze a large object through a very small gap :D

My XLR250R trail bike (250cc) is not exactly a "Big powerfull machine" the ZX7R (750cc) might count, though Big Fat machine is more likely in biker terms I use the trail bike in town, always go to the front and have NEVER had the problem of holding up a car.