New Road-safety Adverts

[lelandv]

Just saw one of the new road-safety adverts on television... the one with the guy at the junction, looking both ways, then pulling out to just to be hit by a motorcycle.

Wasn't really expecting it, having never seen the advert before, and it totally freaked me out!

Definitely food for thought.

Of course it doesn't help when a lot of bikers on the high-powered [mostly japanese] machines tend to use their acceleration to the maximum, 0-60 in like 2 seconds, and often tend to do very high speed anyway (well above the speed limits) which makes them a little more difficult to spot in some circumstances.

Not all bikers are like this, of course, but many are, sadly. Just from observation, the bikers that do tend to ride like this are generally the younger ones on japanese machines. I've not yet spotted a BMW, Harley, or Honda Goldwing driven in this fashion by a 55 year old lumberjack ;)

[javadude]

Bit trickier when they're not actually in a lane but driving along the dotted lines so although you see two line of cars theres actually a motorcyclist somewhere amongst them going faster.

[lelandv]

Bit trickier when they're not actually in a lane but driving along the dotted lines so although you see two line of cars theres actually a motorcyclist somewhere amongst them going faster.

They're the ones that take the wording of their old paper licenses from the 1980's (the light green ones which folded up into a plastic sleeve and which was too big to fit in any wallet and too small to be placed neatly with vehicle documents!) too literally. For those who remember them, there was a section where you could fill in your own "donor card" on a small square section of the license. This had perforated lines around it marked "Tear Along Dotted Line".

L.

[adz]

I haven't seen the advert yet, is it to encourage people to look out for bikes when they're driving?

If it is that could only be a good thing as the amount of times i've heard ****'s say "I didn't see you" when i'm on my bright silver and orange Honda Fireblade(with my lights on) with my bright orange helmet and power-ranger suit on.

Riding through traffic (filtering) is a grey area though, as long as it's done safely most police officers acknowledge its use and since riding to France with some Police advanced pursuit instructors I can tell you they do it too.

I agree with the comment about young lads being silly and going too fast on japanese bikes, however when you're young you want speed whether in a car or bike, Japanese superbikes are the fastest accelerating vehicles on the roads, way faster than cars (2.8 seconds is about the quickest for a standard big bore superbike BTW).

[Gord]

It made me jump, when i 1st seen the advert :o

[star a]

the problem lies with the way the eye perceives movement, if the rider approaches the drivers line of vision with no deviation, then the rider becomes 'invisible' even though the driver appears to be looking directly at the rider, he may not see him until it's too late, almost all drivers say i didn't see you until it was too late. riders are advised to deviate slightly when approaching cars waiting to emerge from junctions. i read an article about this, but cannot remember where.

edit. it's called motion camouflage

[lelandv]

Not only applicable to motorbikes, but anything really. The human eye is more sensitive to lateral/relative motion, regardless of the size of the object being observed. This is one of the reasons that people learn a different method of visual scan when they're learning to fly aeroplanes, so as to maximise the perception of moving objects. It is much harder to spot another aircraft on a constant converging bearing than one which is crossing your track.

L.

[adz]

I understand the principles but how should a motorcyclist deviate slightly when approaching a junction.

I was always taught to always have a way out of a situation (an out), which is usually possible (i'm still alive)

Most bikers are constantly reading the road/ conditions/ traffic far more than people in cars and there are much less distractions. I drive an LS400 and know I am probably far less alert/ aware when cocooned in my gin palace.

It pays to ride defensively but not agressively, and imagine every other road user hasn't seen you (IMO).

I wear bright colours and if someone doesn't see me they really shouldn't be on the road.

When idiots on bikes go round a blind bend at double the limit on the white line it does make me mad though, it makes us all look like to**ers.

Of course it doesn't help when a lot of bikers on the high-powered [mostly japanese] machines tend to use their acceleration to the maximum, 0-60 in like 2 seconds, and often tend to do very high speed anyway (well above the speed limits) which makes them a little more difficult to spot in some circumstances.

Not all bikers are like this, of course, but many are, sadly. Just from observation, the bikers that do tend to ride like this are generally the younger ones on japanese machines. I've not yet spotted a BMW, Harley, or Honda Goldwing driven in this fashion by a 55 year old lumberjack

That's because no harley's, goldwings and most BMW's can accelerate that quickly to be honest.

The only way a stock harley could do 60 in 2 seconds is if you fired it into the sea from a steam catapult, which by the way is what they should do with them.

[lelandv]

It pays to ride defensively but not agressively

A lot of car drivers should take a chapter from that book...

When idiots on bikes go round a blind bend at double the limit on the white line it does make me mad though, it makes us all look like to**ers.

Saw one in france a couple years ago... he must have been doing nearly 200km/h, along the white lines in the rain. The white lines painted on the road are very slippery in the wet and this guy went sliding along the motorway for a few hundred feet. Know he must have been doing nearly 200km/h cos I was doing 130km/h (on the speedometer) and he shot past as if I was stationary.

The only way a stock harley could do 60 in 2 seconds is if you fired it into the sea from a steam catapult, which by the way is what they should do with them.

Good point well taken ! :D

L.

[star a]

how should a motorcyclist deviate slightly when approaching a junction.

by altering position in the road a bit.

[adz]

how should a motorcyclist deviate slightly when approaching a junction.

by altering position in the road a bit.

At every junction where there's a vehicle?

It's unrealistic to say the least.

And if the effest is the same with any size vehicles, shouldn't we all be weaving about so people see us?

As I said before if someone can't see me in all my shiny gear they shouldn't be on the road in the 1st place.

[star a]

yeh ur right, best not do it then and become fatalists.

[eXOBeX]

The advert can be seen here.

[adz]

If you've ridden a bike i'm sure you'll appreciate changing position on the road, especially with sh*tty UK roads is hazardous .

How many junctions do you pass ina residential area? Are we supposed to constantly weave down the road so people can see us more easily.

Putting headlights on and wearing bright colours should be enough, if someone doesn't see me they must be f***in blind.

I've just watched the advert which shows if he'd looked properly he would have seen the guy on the bike.

The responsibility is on all of us, not just bikers.

lelandv states the "motion camouflage" effect is the same for all vehicles but who moves position every time they approach a junction to their left or right? The best you can do is to have an escape route if possible, and imagine the person in the vehicle is an idiot about to pull out.

Or become fatalists ;)

[IanB]

All that's needed here is the old addage of:-

"Look right, look left, look right again then go"

I seem to remember learning that at school (1960's).

Mind you, in extensive riding over 35 years, I never actually had anyone pull out in front of me like that (lucky!). It did happen in a car though......

IanB :D

[MrADeveci]

One of the things that was was taught to me during my driving course ..............

If your stationary in traffic for a while ...... then you set off.

Always check your mirrors, both sides .... to make sure you haven't collected any cyclists / motorbikes either side of you ........ so as that when you pull off, you don't take them with you ! :o

[Tony9r]

Just watched the advert... brought back horrible memories ... that was me on a bike 15 years ago :o

Fortunately for me I had a split second to try and avoid the car that had just pulled out, but I still hit the front wing and "flew" over the bonnet, across the road, and came to rest on the opposite pavement.

Exposed knee-cap, skinned forearms, and multiple bruising... although battered and very sore, I was a VERY lucky lad!

I distinctivly remember seeing the car pull up and stop at the junction, and yes he looked, but he obviously didn't see me, and pulled straight out - and I always ride with the headlight on!

If only all motorists were made to take a bike test, maybe then they would be able to appreciate just how much of a battle field it is out there on a bike

[Noel]

Friend of mine at a junction turning right was let into slow moving traffic by a courteous driver who beckoned him out, only for a biker to overtake the courteous driver and skid into the side of my friends car who was now half way out on the road......biker wasn't injured badly a bit of bruising but according to the biker it was my friends fault......I was in the passenger side and honestly he came out of nowhere....first we knew was him skidding.......looking back my friend was young and got a fair shock and paid for the repair of the bike and some compensation to settle quickly....but who really was to blame ?

[star a]

Friend of mine at a junction turning right was let into slow moving traffic by a courteous driver who beckoned him out, only for a biker to overtake the courteous driver and skid into the side of my friends car who was now half way out on the road......biker wasn't injured badly a bit of bruising but according to the biker it was my friends fault......I was in the passenger side and honestly he came out of nowhere....first we knew was him skidding.......looking back my friend was young and got a fair shock and paid for the repair of the bike and some compensation to settle quickly....but who really was to blame ?

highway codes says:-143: DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road

so i guess the biker.

[adz]

QUOTE(Noel @ Feb 6 2006, 11:04 PM) Friend of mine at a junction turning right was let into slow moving traffic by a courteous driver who beckoned him out, only for a biker to overtake the courteous driver and skid into the side of my friends car who was now half way out on the road......biker wasn't injured badly a bit of bruising but according to the biker it was my friends fault......I was in the passenger side and honestly he came out of nowhere....first we knew was him skidding.......looking back my friend was young and got a fair shock and paid for the repair of the bike and some compensation to settle quickly....but who really was to blame ?

highway codes says:-143: DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road so i guess the biker.

Here here! definitely the bikers' fault. Filtering should only be done where there's no hazards, even then it's still risky. He's lucky he didn't get pulled for dangerous driving (riding) IMO.

[javadude]

Filtering should only be done where there's no hazards

Junction 8/9 on the M4 is meant to be on one of the busiest stretches of motorway in europe. At the moment the lanes are narrowed for road works. You always get loads of cars trying to get from lane 3 to exit and the entry to lane 3 as quick as possible, often without use of mirrors and indicators and still motorcyclists filter between lanes.

[lelandv]

Incidentally I just love the "communication" signals used by bikers towards other motorists...

In France, if a car lets a bike pass, the biker will "thank" the driver by sticking his leg out slightly.

In the UK, if a car lets a bike pass, the biker will "thank" the driver by sticking his middle finger up prominently. (There are some more polite bikers, of course, but sadly they seem to be the minority)

Go figure.

L.

[adz]

Incidentally I just love the "communication" signals used by bikers towards other motorists... In France, if a car lets a bike pass, the biker will "thank" the driver by sticking his leg out slightly. In the UK, if a car lets a bike pass, the biker will "thank" the driver by sticking his middle finger up prominently. (There are some more polite bikers, of course, but sadly they seem to be the minority

Having gone to France on my bike fairly recently I have to say French bikers are much more friendly than us brits, especially to other bikers. The leg waving thing was new to us and we didn't realise it was a greeting at first.

In the UK a lot of riders are born agains or haven't had any bike experience before they buy their first proper bike so don't really know the score about waving.

Then you get the weekend harley riders who only wave to other "Hogs" and it's the same with a lot of Ducati posers too.

Also there are so many bikes in cities/ commuting now you'd be like a nodding dog so it's hard to always nod at other bikes/ acknowledge very car.

I think if we stuck our leg out to say thanks like the french do a lot of people would think we were being aggressive (as that's what we thought at first).

I always make a point of being polite if someone is kind enough to move over slightly, but people tend to overdo it and i've seen people hit kerbs/verges, trying to move over too far.

The best thing to do when a bike comes up behind and is "making progress" is to either move over slightly or just drive normally, as if it's a half-decent bike they won't need much room/ time to overtake.

Some idiots on bikes ride right up to your bumper and rev their bike up and try and intimidate people instead of just getting on with it. To these clowns you should brake hard and then reverse, just kidding.

I always hold doors open for people when i'm out and about (I used to be a head doorman so I suppose it's a habit)

Some people say thankyou and some don't, but this doesn't stop me doing it again next time i'm out.

Manners don't cost anything, but they do mean a lot.

Group hug?

[IanB]

I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments regarding courtesy on the road, adz.

I've owned several Ducatis in the past, but would describe myself as neither a "poser", nor a "born again biker". Most of my biking hasn't been commuting either, which has given me much more chance on the open roads to show and receive a bit of cameradery.

Over 30-odd years of biking, nearly all for fun, I have found other drivers on the road to be fine, and virtually never been seriously put out by other driver's road manners. I didn't exactly pussyfoot around either, but just made sure they saw me coming, and got swiftly past anyone who I felt hadn't seen me. Loud pipes helped in this regard, and they even stopped pedestrians stepping out in front of me (yes really!).

As you'll know, it pays to ride (and drive) defensively. Something I try to instill in my sons, all of whom are now bikers. I've only myself to blame for that ^_^

Now that I've "retired" to the ranks of the car driving majority, I like to think I'll keep up the same courtesy I've tried to employ in the past (I do miss the Termignonis though)

IanB :D

[gadget]

Just my two pennys worth.. I agree with the altering of position on approch to stationary traffic waiting at junctions ect. along with other actions this would be called Defensive Riding, but there is an obvious trait to the car drivers eye or mind. I ride 2 sorts of bike, The first is a Pan European, White and has all sorts of things on it to make me very visable to other road users, The second is a 2001 Blade that I also ride with as much conspicuacy aids as possible and ride them in the same manner, However drivers seem to see my work bike no problem.. Maybe the answer is seeing what you dont want to see. Road safety is eveyones responsibility. I do agree that bikers who drive cars are less likely to pull out on other road users probably because we know it hurts..