Clutch Judder

[marshy]

Hiya,

I had a slight clutch judder when pulling away with low RPM in 1st with a cold engine. I mentioned it to my dealer who promptly replaced the clutch. I now have a really bad judder in 1st and reverse. After picking the car up I got half way home and had to return to the dealer as it was actually worse than when I brought it in.

With the new clutch if I do a 1st gear pull off with very light throttle (<1000rpm) then as the speed builds the judder gets so bad you actually start rocking in the seat. The dealer is saying that all IS200's have a judder if you labour the engine, is this true?

help

Marshy. :(

[Rob]

if the judder is now worse than when you took it in and you are rocking in your seat when accelerating then something is really wrong, at low revs the pull away isn't super smooth but once u are moving its fine.

[Risky3301]

If your pulling away at less than 1000 rpm then I would expect some judder(Clutch Control Dependant), have you tried to increase the engine to 1500/1800 rpm this would be more acceptable pull away speed. If you have tried this what was the out come. I know there are times when less engine speed is required for gentle pull away's ie Traffic/Parking, low engine speed clutch/transmission egagement require slightly more clutch slip to prevent judder and you should be able to pull away at idle speed without judder/vibration, this requires very good clutch slip (holding at the bite point) and gentle throttle control to keep engine speed constant as the clutch engages the transmission. This is much easier on FWD cars because of the shorter driveline.

Please think about the following

Weight of vehicle 1380 kgs plus your body weight and any additional passengers

Engine Power at 1000 rpm lesss than 50 bhp

Torque approx 148 nm

your basicly trying to pull away a heavy vehicle at the bottom of the power/torque curve's and it doesn't like it so you will get vibration/clutch judder (if you don't have good clutch control) and if the dealer has fitted a new clutch on an old flywheel then you may not have 100% contact area between the clutch plate and flywheel this will improve over time as the new clutch plate 'BEDS' into the old flywheel.

[ricky_is200]

I had the same problem, the judder when pulling away particularly from low revs and it wasn't fixed with a new clutch. The dealer then put another new clutch in and replaced the flywheel and everything was perfect!

[marshy]

your basicly trying to pull away a heavy vehicle at the bottom of the power/torque curve's and it doesn't like it so you will get vibration/clutch judder (if you don't have good clutch control) and if the dealer has fitted a new clutch on an old flywheel then you may not have 100% contact area between the clutch plate and flywheel this will improve over time as the new clutch plate 'BEDS' into the old flywheel.

Thank you everyone for your replies. The car is with the dealer at the moment and they will be looking at it again this morning. I will ask if the flywheel was changed too. I seem to remember a figure of £600 being mentioned yesterday, would that price include a flywheel?

[ricky_is200]

When I had mine done they changed the rear brake disks as well under warranty. The guy told me the warranty bill came to £1800.

[marshy]

I had the same problem, the judder when pulling away particularly from low revs and it wasn't fixed with a new clutch. The dealer then put another new clutch in and replaced the flywheel and everything was perfect!

I have had a new clutch and flywheel and the judder is still there. I have been told that all IS200's do it and it’s something I will have to live with.

The cherry on the pie is the valet that the car received while the clutch was changed. The chamois was laden with gravel. The wing, driver’s door, passenger door boot and roof now look as though a sanding disk has attacked the car. Not happy at all.

[thegooseman]

What the dealer is telling you is a load of garbage. I have owned 2 IS200's and neither of them have had the problem yet so that proves that it doesn't affect them all! I had a go or two (or three) in my bruvvers when he had the judder prob and it was obvious that there was a problem. My advice is to keep taking it back until they get it right.

[ricky_is200]

I agree, mine was really bad before they changed the fly wheel and clutch, it was even more noticable when someone else drove the car who wasn't used to it. After they changed the wheel and clutch it was silky smooth.

[TonyGoose]

As 'thegooseman' suggested, my IS has a juddery clutch.

I got a warranty replacement which is slightly better.

I'll have to get it done again... maybe with flywheel from the sound of it.

I'm sure i can here a chattering bearing at times too !

[ricky_is200]

Wondered when you'd join the post Tony! (we both had the same problem). Mine's been out of warrantly for some time now so thankfully its been fine.

[marshy]

What the dealer is telling you is a load of garbage.

I called Lexus customer care line yesterday. I was advised to get the dealer to swap out the clutch, flywheel and flywheel cover. When I told them I had all the work done already he went quiet and said there was nothing else I could do!

I am going to visit either the Swindon or Reading dealer this coming weekend to see what they say about it. Has anyone had any experience of either of these dealers?

[wildrnes]

have you got your seat far enough back

i moved my seat back and problems solved

[Risky3301]

What the dealer is telling you is a load of garbage.

I called Lexus customer care line yesterday. I was advised to get the dealer to swap out the clutch, flywheel and flywheel cover. When I told them I had all the work done already he went quiet and said there was nothing else I could do!

I am going to visit either the Swindon or Reading dealer this coming weekend to see what they say about it. Has anyone had any experience of either of these dealers?

Strange reply from customer services, I suggest you take the car back, ask the dealer for the use of other car until they have fixed the problem.

This might sound stupid question. 'The dealer techs have checked all the engine, transmission mounts, prop for alinement etc' This should have been the first thing they checked.

[lexicon]

To say that clutch judder is normal is cobblers - mine will judder slightly if the revs are too low, but only occasionally and nothing like as bad as you describe.

Under normal circumstances (without revving the b@ll@cks off it) it is very smooth.

[marshy]

Under normal circumstances (without revving the b@ll@cks off it) it is very smooth.

I was taking the otherhalf to Reading this morning to look at a Toyota Celica. To my delight the Lexus dealership is right next door! While she was nosing around the Toyotas I wandered off to look as the second-hand IS200s.

While wandering around I thought about my juddery clutch and figured I'd get a second opinion on whether the juddering was normal.

Steve was sitting behind the reception desk and I told him about the problem with my IS200. He called Paul out from the back and I demonstrated the juddering to him. He said it shouldn't be as bad as that and got Adam out for a second opinion. He reversed the car out of the parking space and immediately started shaking his head. "Shouldn't do that" he exclaimed.

Anyhow, I am booked in for a new clutch/flywheel and also Adam spotted a leak on the water pump which they are going to fix.

I am very impressed with their staffs professionalism and courtesy. I'll be reporting back on the work once it's been completed. (Only a three week wait!)

[The GADGEY]

I'm on my second IS200 , the first one had 100k on it and the clutch suffered from jutter, My current one has 38k and now starting to go the same way . I thought it was me at first but having read the posts above I now know different .Problem is I bought it second hand and it's 3 years old so I suppose the warranty is up... Maybe time to let her go?

[marshy]

I'll be reporting back on the work once it's been completed. (Only a three week wait!)

Dropped my car off this morning. Got a Blue IS200SE auto (52 reg) as a loan car. Paul reckons it'll be two to three days. Will report back when I have more news.

[The GADGEY]

How long is Lexus warranty ? 1 / 2 or 3 years ?

[marshy]

How long is Lexus warranty ? 1 / 2 or 3 years ?

It is three years. You can however pay extra to extend it.

[RX-Men-8]

This not only happens on IS200's. Most cars have some clutch judder, a resonance, at some rev point depending on drivetrain dynamics. Normally it isn't noticable, though, because it happens outside (below) the rev-range used. It gets really bad if the judder happens to be in the rev-range you're using the clutch. It is usually fixed with a clutch replacement. 9 times out of 10 it'll be worn out pretty much already. Leakages (oil and grease) make it worse. I've felt bad judder (I mean, really heavy shaking) on a BMW 325i and Mazda MX-3 V6 (front wheel-drive). They both got cured with a clutch replacement.

Gerhard

[kev dood]

How bad a judder to people mean, I get a small amount.

The main thing I hate it one gear changes (usually about 2700rpm and also higher, unless you are super quick with the change and clutch, you get a lurch (not forward lurch though!).

This I guess it cos the difference in speed each side of the plates and gets taken up but the springs etc in the clutch but it feels really awful. Also feels a bit clunky from the rear as though the diff is not that great!

Is this normal and do others feel it? I have only been in other autos so am not sure if mine is normal or not!

[TonyGoose]

The judder i have is noticed mostly in slow or stop / start traffic.

You know, where you're edging forward ... on idle maybe or close to it ...

Approaching lights or r/bout or parking... as clutch is up + down a bit.

Done it from new and had a clutch replacement around 10k miles.

That was about a year (14k miles) ago and it still juddered.

Yesterday had another clutch ( + flywheel + slave cylinder too this time )

So far... so bad Still get a judder.

In fact, i moved the car about 6 feet when collecting it.

Then got back out to inform the technician it's worse than before ...

Poor chap must be despairing. Dunno why but i feel kinda guilty

I did give him a very exclusive LOC embroidered polo shirt though B)

So, what next ? Sometimes get grumbly bearing noise at idle after a thrash around.

Kind of noise that would make you walk away if on a car you were looking to buy.

Noise goes when clutch pedal depressed ( no i don't mean clutch feeling a little sad :duh: )

That says to me ... HELLO, This is your gearbox input bearing SHOUTING :shutit:

Could this be a clue ? I try not to diagnose the problem for the dealer.

I'd rather say 'it has a judder' than 'clutch is juddery' in case it isn't the clutch.

They can replace engine / clutch / gearbox / prop / diff / shafts etc etc.

I really don't care, i just want my car NOT to judder

I know some dealers (and Lexus) have been known to say 'they all do it'.

Not true. We've had 3 IS200's in the family and only this one does it.

Also driven several @ openroad + loan cars including IS200 sport yesterday.

None of those did it either so something is definitely not quite right.

This is by far the most expensive and 'exclusive' car i have ever bought.

Yet it seems to have the most problems - judder, crap wheels, crap paint, creaks.

Ooh, now i've done it - pass me the prozac

[kev dood]

Sounds like a sorrt state of affairs. Hope you get it sorted out soon.

I noticed on mine as well, that when say in 4th and change down to 3rd, on take up it snatches quite badly. I get this on about 75% of gear changes, up or down. Is it just me?? :duh:

Doesn't really feel like clutch (as in plates), more like if one side of the clutch had stopped spinning, then when lift pedal back up, as other is spinning, get a bad lunge. Makes the drive a bit jurky!

Any ideas guys? (or gals)

[dark_is200]

I used to have judder problems, got an uprated clutch (Helix) and flywheel (Jun) fitted yesterday.

Everything is good now:

engine starts more quickly due to light weight of flywheel

judder has gone

clutch pedal is lighter but more positive

well worth the money