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We all know the new paint is very susceptible to scratches and stone chips, but has anyone actually used a paint thickness gauge to measure how thick the coating is? I ask the question because I have collected a stone chip on the roof...heard the thump when driving down the M4 :angry: .

The Autopia site has a pretty good local repair procedure that basically fill the chips with touch up and then uses 1500 grit to blend back before using a swirl polish. However, my suspicion is that the clear coat the second generation is pretty thin, and the wet & dry may remove it causing more of an imperfection than the original chips.

Failing that it may be a roof panel respray through the stealership :tsktsk:

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We all know the new paint is very susceptible to scratches and stone chips, but has anyone actually used a paint thickness gauge to measure how thick the coating is? I ask the question because I have collected a stone chip on the roof...heard the thump when driving down the M4 :angry: .

The Autopia site has a pretty good local repair procedure that basically fill the chips with touch up and then uses 1500 grit to blend back before using a swirl polish. However, my suspicion is that the clear coat the second generation is pretty thin, and the wet & dry may remove it causing more of an imperfection than the original chips.

Failing that it may be a roof panel respray through the stealership :tsktsk:

I measured mine today and get readings of between 120-135 microns on the roof and sides , I can't read the bonnet as my gauge will not read it . I presume it is made from aluminium or some non ferrous metal.

Is this any help?

As an aside there is no reason with todays paint technology why WB polyurethane coatings should be any less scratch resistant than solvent based. This paint seems to have been made by a low tech paint company or to a price. Probably the latter.

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I measured mine today and get readings of between 120-135 microns on the roof and sides , I can't read the bonnet as my gauge will not read it . I presume it is made from aluminium or some non ferrous metal.

Is this any help?

As an aside there is no reason with todays paint technology why WB polyurethane coatings should be any less scratch resistant than solvent based. This paint seems to have been made by a low tech paint company or to a price. Probably the latter.

Thanks a lot Barry, I'll proceed very carefully :unsure: The bonnet is aluminium so you will not get a reading with a magnetic device like an Elcometer, but it was the roof I was interested in. What device did you use as a matter of interest? Might have to get a paint meter even if its just to keep track of how much I'm generally polishing off with the PC 7424 :D . I did think about a 3M clear bra for the car but didn't believe I might need one for the roof :angry:

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One thing is for sure - of all the cars I have considered buying, the Lexus ISg2 has the least "orange peel", as visible in showroom conditions. The paint looks gorgeous and "flat"

Just go take a look at any BMW or Audi and you'll see what I mean.

I'm not sure it's the thickness causing the problem, it's the softness...

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I'm not sure it's the thickness causing the problem, it's the softness...

Jamboo, What are you on about? I asked if anyone had measured the paint thickness as I am wary of using any abrasive material on the paintwork. I need to flatten the touch up paint with wet 1500 grit paper which will no doubt also remove some of the clearcoat. I then need to use a mild abrasive polish like Sonus Swirlbuster to polish the matt finish left by the paper...again removing some clearcoat. Every time you use a polish you will remove some coating, and over polishing can remove the clearcoat completely :crying: .

At no time in this post has anyone stated the paint has a problem attributed to thickness.

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I agree with Jamboo - the paint finish on my IS is the finest I've seen on ANY car. There isn't a flaw in it anywhere. Mine's now 16 month old, 30k miles and when washed shines like new. No orange peel, no runs and panel fit is excellent.

The other thing is that every car we've had, MINI, Audi, Volvo, BMW etc, when you go to their forums there are owners complaining about stone chips and dodgy paint. I just think that when you're hammering down the motorway at 80mph+ and a stone flies towards your paintwork from the car in front you are talking closing speeds of in excess of 120mph. I'm not sure any paintwork can withstand that. We do some work for Nissan in Sunderland and they have a machine that fires diamonds at paint samples to test their resistance to chipping but I'm not sure Nissans are now reknowned for being chip free. When it comes to thickness, if Barry is getting between 120 - 135 microns that would seem to be pretty good - I think the best paint jobs are only about 150 microns max.

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I'm not sure it's the thickness causing the problem, it's the softness...

Jamboo, What are you on about? .....

At no time in this post has anyone stated the paint has a problem attributed to thickness.

No one is or has, just my observation. The paint scratches so easily that I wouldn't recommend anything like 1500 grit or higher...just leave well alone...

Sorry - I'll go else where with my lolly if I've offended (not my thread anyway)

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No one is or has, just my observation. The paint scratches so easily that I wouldn't recommend anything like 1500 grit or higher...just leave well alone...

Unfortunately I don't have that option. It's either spot repair using the process described or get the roof panel recoated. As it's still under warranty this will mean going through Lexus I guess, so I'll try the spot repair and if that fails, bite the bullet.

The spot repair as described on the Autopia site worked fine on the small chips to the front of the car, including a few on the bonnet which despite the incredible finish are difficult to see. However, the damage inflicted to the roof is larger and deeper :ohmy:

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We all know the new paint is very susceptible to scratches and stone chips, but has anyone actually used a paint thickness gauge to measure how thick the coating is? I ask the question because I have collected a stone chip on the roof...heard the thump when driving down the M4 :angry: .

The Autopia site has a pretty good local repair procedure that basically fill the chips with touch up and then uses 1500 grit to blend back before using a swirl polish. However, my suspicion is that the clear coat the second generation is pretty thin, and the wet & dry may remove it causing more of an imperfection than the original chips.

Failing that it may be a roof panel respray through the stealership :tsktsk:

After retouching you can try this prodcut http://www.langka.com/complete-paint-chip-...r-kit-p-30.html. It is less aggresive that grit. If you use grit i'd recommed you 4000 grit sand paper.

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After retouching you can try this prodcut http://www.langka.com/complete-paint-chip-...r-kit-p-30.html. It is less aggresive that grit. If you use grit i'd recommed you 4000 grit sand paper.

Thanks but have all that, or similar. The chips have been filled, sanded and polished but I can still see the repair as it's a slightly different shade than the rest of the roof, probably a missmatch in the clearcoat thickness..oh well tried and failed, visit to the bodyworks later this week I think :duh: most peeps wouldn't notice but it's just above the drivers door and I see it every time I get in to drive it :angry:

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Tango, have you tried the 'Chips-Away' franchise? Always did a great job for me on paintwork and / or alloys, and at a competitive price, repaired on your own driveway or a location to suit.

Just fill up with cups of tea and they work wonders! :)

Oddly enough, which seems to fly in the face of convention, you are more likely to suffer with stone chips with thicker paint :duh:

And as for the earlier comment about potentially inferior paint, I wouldn't think so. Paint is one of the more expensive components in the engineering bill of materials, usually developed with world-class companies such as DuPont and Axo Nobel :) Apart from having to be aesthetically pleasing (and I agree, the IS has one of the best volume production paint-jobs on the market today), it is also your anti-corrosion protection layer; it would be foolish to risk the potential warranty cost to the officially worlds largest car manufacturer (as of today - and that's official! :winky: )

- Mark

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Tango, have you tried the 'Chips-Away' franchise? Always did a great job for me on paintwork and / or alloys, and at a competitive price, repaired on your own driveway or a location to suit.

Just fill up with cups of tea and they work wonders! :)

Oddly enough, which seems to fly in the face of convention, you are more likely to suffer with stone chips with thicker paint :duh:

And as for the earlier comment about potentially inferior paint, I wouldn't think so. Paint is one of the more expensive components in the engineering bill of materials, usually developed with world-class companies such as DuPont and Axo Nobel :) Apart from having to be aesthetically pleasing (and I agree, the IS has one of the best volume production paint-jobs on the market today), it is also your anti-corrosion protection layer; it would be foolish to risk the potential warranty cost to the officially worlds largest car manufacturer (as of today - and that's official! :winky: )

- Mark

Mark,

TBH I've never tried them. I have a very good paint shop locally who use the new paints and have a low bake oven etc.so I'll pay them a visit to see what they recommend. I used an alternative (cheaper) shop to do similar work on my IS200 (tidied the front and sprayed the Sports grill), but they still use the solvent based paint systems and I don't want to 'mix and match' on the 250 :unsure:

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Tango, I don't think you'd have any issue with using a solvent based paint repair on a water-based paint substrate (is it actually water-based? I didn't think the Japanese were too concerned with all that whilst there was money to be made, unless there are now financial penalties to be had... :winky: )

The primary reason for phasing out solvent based paints in volume manufacture (in Europe at least) was the issue of VOCs (Volatile Organic Compounds) entering the atmosphere, contravening the requirements of ISO 14001. When the carrier medium (be it water or solvent) is gone, you're still left with the same paint pigments baked on your vehicle.

At Toyota's Burnaston plant, the introduction of water-based paints was phased in as the technology was relatively new, and even then, the clear-coat outer layer was solvent based until some time later on, as correct coalescence of the painted layer was difficult to effect until the (very expensive) rotating 'shear-bell' paint systems began to deliver good water-based paint finishes.

I think the Chips-Away guys use solvent based materials (this often helps to speed-up the process), and my Beemer had water-based paint. This never caused any problems.

Hope you find the right solution anyway -

Mark.

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Hope you find the right solution anyway -

Thanks Mark...was that an intential pun there :D . Do you have paint code 1GO as well? How long do 'Chips Away' take to complete then? I was filling in the chips in three or four applications and then leaving the touch in to cure for at least 24 hours before cutting and polishing. Presumably they finish the job in an hour or two. :unsure:

Do you know when sprayshops are required to change from the solvent based systems? Thought it was sometime soon.

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I put a thread on about a year ago about soft / scratchy paint and was told talking rubbish, my car is a year old past Jan and polished it last week and although nice all the chips are full of polish it is definetely substandard compared to my last IS. Although the alloys are the same standard as about to get other ones after one winter!

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Tango, have you tried the 'Chips-Away' franchise? Always did a great job for me on paintwork and / or alloys, and at a competitive price, repaired on your own driveway or a location to suit.

Just fill up with cups of tea and they work wonders! :)

Oddly enough, which seems to fly in the face of convention, you are more likely to suffer with stone chips with thicker paint :duh:

And as for the earlier comment about potentially inferior paint, I wouldn't think so. Paint is one of the more expensive components in the engineering bill of materials, usually developed with world-class companies such as DuPont and Axo Nobel :) Apart from having to be aesthetically pleasing (and I agree, the IS has one of the best volume production paint-jobs on the market today), it is also your anti-corrosion protection layer; it would be foolish to risk the potential warranty cost to the officially worlds largest car manufacturer (as of today - and that's official! :winky: )

- Mark

Perhaps someone with your knowledge of the paint industry and technology could enlighten us as to why the paint film is so soft then?

:)

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Perhaps someone with your knowledge of the paint industry and technology could enlighten us as to why the paint film is so soft then?

It must be the clear coat that's soft, as it appears to mark real easy. The finish is very good but as a consequence shows up every imperfection. Perhaps the best option is to stop detailing :D

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Perhaps someone with your knowledge of the paint industry and technology could enlighten us as to why the paint film is so soft then?

It must be the clear coat that's soft, as it appears to mark real easy. The finish is very good but as a consequence shows up every imperfection. Perhaps the best option is to stop detailing :D

It's a good point well made. When using 'solid' paints, the hardness is typically a function of the pigments. For example, solid black is one of the 'softest' paints, along with red. These are both buggers for being susceptible to scratches. The benefit here is that the softness also makes these two of the colours that polish-up beautifully.

The hardest paints typically are whites, but you'd not work to achieve a 'shine' on a white vehicle, as they tend to just look clean or cleaner :yawn:

As Tango says, and I'm inclined to agree with him, it must be the clear-coat. It could be a function of the materials, or the processing of those materials; either way, if my Cadoxton takes a fly down the side, it looks like someone has gone down the panel with skates on! :angry:

It might be OK that these surface blemishes polish out quite easily, but I'd rather not spend my time slowly removing one of my key anti-corrosion protection layers. Mine's under monitor, and the jury's out...

Mark

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Two comments based on this Post.

1. Lexus paint finish is c.130 microns & compared with the opposition is very evenly applied which is significant to give a lustrous effect.

2.My Friend who runs a large BumW Bodyshop will only air brush or spray panels as using solvent-based

repairs look good but will eventually "shrink" & become progressively more noticeable.

Tel :driving:

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Two comments based on this Post.

1. Lexus paint finish is c.130 microns & compared with the opposition is very evenly applied which is significant to give a lustrous effect.

2.My Friend who runs a large BumW Bodyshop will only air brush or spray panels as using solvent-based

repairs look good but will eventually "shrink" & become progressively more noticeable.

Tel :driving:

First quote today was 'I'll have to spray the whole roof panel and to get the same finish as existing will be a lot of work...£350' :o

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I know this doesn't help but at least for better feeling: in other forum a guy with E90 325i complained. He has been twice in brush carwash and the clearcote is damaged. I have the same experience with IS.

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I know this doesn't help but at least for better feeling: in other forum a guy with E90 325i complained. He has been twice in brush carwash and the clearcote is damaged. I have the same experience with IS.

Why would anyone bring their car through an automatic carwash. They destroy the finish. If you can't be bothered washing it yourself then at least go to a place that does it by hand.

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I know this doesn't help but at least for better feeling: in other forum a guy with E90 325i complained. He has been twice in brush carwash and the clearcote is damaged. I have the same experience with IS.

Why would anyone bring their car through an automatic carwash. They destroy the finish. If you can't be bothered washing it yourself then at least go to a place that does it by hand.

Absolutely - your own hand if you can, or just don't wash it.

My experience is that some brush washes are better then hand washes... :lol:

As far as paint thickness goes, most road cars are 125-150mc's, though some pukka sports cars are 150-180mc's - checked with a mate in the trade.

ALso, Red, Yellow and Black is softer, but I've also been told that the quality of the clear coat and the undercoat layering can make a huge difference.

Nissan seem to miles ahead in paint quality terms and I have no idea they do it, but this is borne out in out in our family run-about - Nissan Note!! The car is far less prone to scratching and chipping - it's silver, I detailed it over the weekend (CARLACK/P21s) and there is one minor door ding, paint totally intact, it's used on Dual Carriageways and doesn't have single stone chip or scratch anywhere!!

Whilst my old silver Audi was twice as resilient as the Lexus, the silver Nissan appears twice over again!

The Lexus on the other hand is garaged, cleaned and cherished, and is peppered, and swirls are appearing now even though it's cleaned and wrapped in cotton wool.. :tomato: regularly...

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Nissan seem to miles ahead in paint quality terms and I have no idea they do it, but this is borne out in out in our family run-about - Nissan Note!! The car is far less prone to scratching and chipping - it's silver, I detailed it over the weekend (CARLACK/P21s) and there is one minor door ding, paint totally intact, it's used on Dual Carriageways and doesn't have single stone chip or scratch anywhere!!

Yes, I mentioned Nissan in the other related post regarding the scratch resistant 'Ceramiclear', apparently Nissan use something similar. Looks like my roof is going to get a full respray as it isn't just a couple of chips but has a slight indent too :crybaby: Wonder what the chances are of collecting a stone that large on the roof of the car, especially travelling at around 80 mph on the motorway :angry:

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