Nhs Funding

[IS300KK]

The NHS is yet again in the news, and I'm just curious what people think about its future, and how they (as taxpayers) would rather the NHS be funded.

Also, do people think the NHS as we know it will exist in 10yrs time? Personally, I don't, but I'd be interested to see what other people think.

All the best

Amanda

P.S> Sorry, posting this went a bit wrong, haven't posted a poll before!

[dlayen]

As probably everyone else on here.

we feel we pay too much tax and NI.

what i can't understand maybe someone can answer for me. at my place of work over the last few years we've had contract cleaners from all over the world , many not from the eu.

i have known of instances of plastic surgery , ivf treatment etc etc. being done in nhs hospitals at the end of the treatment they walk away from the hospital and have not paid a penny.

i may be speaking out of turn but i'm sure the nhs could do a far better job if it didn't have to treat the world for free.

[IS300KK]

I agree we pay too much tax / NI, or rather, not enough of us pay tax / NI.

Working in A+E, I saw a huge number of fit young men (told me they went to the gym 5x per week) who'd never had a job, and neither did anyone in their household; these are the people who whould turn up week after week, drunk or having been in a fight, for free treatment.

The monthly deductions from my salary would not pay for one shot of 'clot-buster' drugs for someone having a heart attack, so where does the shortfall come from? There is huge abuse of the system, at massive cost, but to tackle this (eg by charging £20 for an inappropriate A+E visit) would be extremely unpopular with the masses. The NHS will be privatised, sooner or later, and probably by stealth.

The NHS is worth holding onto, despite its faults, but the government is doing a great job of destroying it.

[WylieCoyote]

I've worked for the NHS now for a few years and the stuff I could tell you about what goes on behind closed doors defies belief. No it cannot continue. The entire system is totally target-driven with no regard for patients or best treatment. The government have ruined the NHS and it will eventually be privatised.

[Rsarin]

people in this country are not used to paying for healthcare and its gonna come as a huge shock when it does go private.I look forward to that.

[Rikos]

Yet another case of government failing!!

I would like to think that the NHS will be around in 10 years but i cant see it and it isnt a nice thought that you have to pay if your injured have an accident or come down with an illness. I know it happens and works in other countries and maybe if they deduct the tax and NI we were paying for the NHS and we then pay for private healthcare everyone wouldnt mind paying it but can you really see the government allowing that. We'd have to just pay for healthcare on top of the tax and NI that we already pay. Although at least this method you would maybe stop people abusing the system.

The only downside then is if you get an emergency patient in how do you know if they have private healthcare and should be treated as you cant look through their wallet find no evidence that they have it and then put them back outside withouht help. So I think that A&E should remain free but obviously thats tax.

All in all it is a rubbish situation and i just feel sorry for the genuine people being let down by the few abusing the system.

[Noel]

A visit to the A&E over here in Ireland cost around 50 euro unless you were reffered by your local GP who also charges 50 euro :(

[boddamloon]

I work in the oil industry and most of the companies all give free health/dentist care not because they want to but because its cheaper than having someone off work sick waiting on treatment.

I think in the future all employer's will need to provide healthcare for its workforce as the NHS is becoming a joke.

[IS300KK]

Boddamloon says "the NHS is becoming a joke" - I agree. The pressure from management to meet targets is immense, especially when it will be my clinical decisions called into question if things go wrong.

I still think that abuse of the system is the bigger problem though; everyone has 'rights' to treatment without necessarily having the responsibilty to pay for it through taxes, or even treat others with respect in the process - the milk of human kindness turns a bit sour when someone's calling you a "stupid f***ing c**t" as you try to suture their hand! The frequent attenders would be shocked if presented with a bill for their treatment - eg 'admission bloods' cost around £40 per patient; some patients I can think of have reached over 100 attendances, you do the maths - I firmly believe it would be helpful to make some nominal charge.

[swfcdan]

after a lovely trip to A&E on the early hours of new years day, and after waiting 6 1/2 hours to get two sititches in my mouth, and then faint and wait a further 2 hours to have my head stitched up, i can happly said id be willing to pay for it and not have to wait AS LONG AS THE COSTS ARE NOT EXTORNTINATE!

i think a pay as you go or a top up service would be ideal, should you wish to use it, whilst keeping a free nhs service available running at the same time

[IS300KK]

swfcdan:

Yikes! That must have been a really fun 6 1/2 hours on New Years Eve!! Hope you're on the mend.

I think that we will soon have a 2-tier system. Those of us who work for a living and therefore need prompt treatment to avoid lots of sick leave will be happy to pay up, whereas others will still sit in the waiting room for 4 hours to get their 'free' 16p packet of paracetamol.

Point in case about cost; I'm on call tonight, just been called (00.45h) to see a patient. Once the person turns up at the unit*, it will take me 50mins to drive there, an hour to assess the patient and a further 50min drive home. For this period I will earn £5 per hour, so by the time I figure in petrol costs, I will actually be out of pocket for seeing this patient. Of course, there will be no cost to the patient themselves - compare this to the cost of calling out an emergency plumber for 3 hours.........................

*as so many people didn't bother to even turn up once referred, we now wait until they turn up before driving out

[Sagitar]

£5 per hour, so by the time I figure in petrol costs, I will actually be out of pocket for seeing this patient.

How come - isn't that below the National Minimum Wage - and no travel expenses? That's shocking.

[Giblet]

Having lived in the USA and experienced the health care system and costs associated with it, we do not want it privatised. However I agree something has to be done. Far too many people are coming here for free treatment, too many people living without paying a penny into it and taking so much out of it.

However there are still in my opinion some basic principles the Government could look to and focus more on providing health care rather than the money going to management of hospitals etc.

It's ridiculous that we have different system across borders, so you can live one side of a boundary and get different health cover.

Country has gone nuts. Not surprising we keep hearing about how Scotland have it so much better since devolution, and we have a scottish prime minister. Sooner he goes the better and we get someone in who knows what they are doing for a change. Only trouble is no one out there worth having at the moment. How about we vote for Ali G, he had some good ides for immigration.

Think I might just stay here in Oz and extend my stay to a couple of years.

[IS300KK]

£5 per hour, so by the time I figure in petrol costs, I will actually be out of pocket for seeing this patient.

How come - isn't that below the National Minimum Wage - and no travel expenses? That's shocking.

Our salary is monthly, with a fixed supplement for on-call hours worked. If you do the calculations, my take home works out to around £5 per hour on-call. We allegedly get travel expenses, but the regulations are so tight that, at best, we can claim around 30-40% of the actual mileage we do. I have been in the job since beginning of August and haven't seen a penny yet - they've just started looking at claims from June. This job - which I was allocated, no choice, 2 days before starting - has actually cost me a fortune. Hopefully, I will get some money back, in around 6 months' time, but that doesn't help when I have to fill the tank at least twice a week!!!

I can understand why so many of my colleagues have gone to Oz / NZ.

[boddamloon]

We allegedly get travel expenses, but the regulations are so tight that, at best, we can claim around 30-40% of the actual mileage we do.

I work overseason a 5 week rotation and for me to get to work i need to get a taxi to airport and my work gives me £20 towards the £55 cost and of that the goverment taxes me 40% of that amount.

Also when im out of country i get £30 food allowance per day and UK goverment take 40% tax on that too.

We have guys from all over UK on same deal and none of our accountants can get relief on this. Our goverment is a joke not just the NHS !

[IS300KK]

It really does feel as though we are penalised for working!!!! 40% tax banding (on any expenses eventually paid) is crippling, and there's little point doing locums to top up because the take-home is so poor for the number of hours worked. This is obviously not exclusive to the NHS, but we don't make a fuss because we're so grateful to have a job to go to.

Don't get me wrong, obviously I earn a damn sight more than someone stacking shelves in Asda, and I'm thankful for that. What annoys me is that those of us who pay tax are getting squeezed harder and harder for the benefit of those who contribute nothing.

[boddamloon]

It really does feel as though we are penalised for working!!!! 40% tax banding (on any expenses eventually paid) is crippling, and there's little point doing locums to top up because the take-home is so poor for the number of hours worked. This is obviously not exclusive to the NHS, but we don't make a fuss because we're so grateful to have a job to go to.

Don't get me wrong, obviously I earn a damn sight more than someone stacking shelves in Asda, and I'm thankful for that. What annoys me is that those of us who pay tax are getting squeezed harder and harder for the benefit of those who contribute nothing.

Yes but it does not give much innitive to go forward in your career as the benifits are so measly for the extra pressure because of the tax etc. Its just too easy to sit at home and not work and really im not that better off than some of these people!!!! Rant over!!!! :shutit:

[IS300KK]

I agree entirely!

Still, it's quite therapeutic to come on here, rant about it :D and realise that there are so many others in the same position

I think it's about time we elected Clarkson as PM to sort it all out!!

[boddamloon]

Clarkson???? He dont like Lexus he might stick more tax for driving one

[IS300KK]

That reminds me, my car tax is due this month!

Apparently, there is a petition doing the rounds to persuade JC to run for MP:offtopic:

[boddamloon]

Prime Minister time moved to Sunday night 9pm BBC 2 :D

[Rsarin]

swfcdan:

Yikes! That must have been a really fun 6 1/2 hours on New Years Eve!! Hope you're on the mend.

Point in case about cost; I'm on call tonight, just been called (00.45h) to see a patient. Once the person turns up at the unit*, it will take me 50mins to drive there, an hour to assess the patient and a further 50min drive home. For this period I will earn £5 per hour, so by the time I figure in petrol costs, I will actually be out of pocket for seeing this patient. Of course, there will be no cost to the patient themselves - compare this to the cost of calling out an emergency plumber for 3 hours.........................

*as so many people didn't bother to even turn up once referred, we now wait until they turn up before driving out

quick question-if youre on call you arent allowed to leave the hospital.how are you managing to leave?also are you F2 or ST1,i noticed you mentioned youre a junior doctor so why not use the hospital accomodation-its generally £300/400 a month-not that much for a junior doctor,and which deanery are you under btw?i know lots of hospital doctors under practically every deanery there is-although most are under the Mersyside deanery.

[IS300KK]

Rsarin

"quick question-if youre on call you arent allowed to leave the hospital.how are you managing to leave?also are you F2 or ST1,i noticed you mentioned youre a junior doctor so why not use the hospital accomodation-its generally £300/400 a month-not that much for a junior doctor,and which deanery are you under btw?i know lots of hospital doctors under practically every deanery there is-although most are under the Mersyside deanery. "

Hi

This job is non-resident on-call, with a large catchment area. Currently ST2 in Wales Deanery (qualified before FP started, thankfully, was an old-style SHO for a bit).

It would be cheaper to live-in, but the accommodation is notoriously dire, and anyway I live with the other half.

Back to the local DGH soon, so petrol costs will be massively reduced :D

Are you in 'the trade'?

All the best

[Rsarin]

Rsarin

"quick question-if youre on call you arent allowed to leave the hospital.how are you managing to leave?also are you F2 or ST1,i noticed you mentioned youre a junior doctor so why not use the hospital accomodation-its generally £300/400 a month-not that much for a junior doctor,and which deanery are you under btw?i know lots of hospital doctors under practically every deanery there is-although most are under the Mersyside deanery. "

Hi

This job is non-resident on-call, with a large catchment area. Currently ST2 in Wales Deanery (qualified before FP started, thankfully, was an old-style SHO for a bit).

It would be cheaper to live-in, but the accommodation is notoriously dire, and anyway I live with the other half.

Back to the local DGH soon, so petrol costs will be massively reduced :D

Are you in 'the trade'?

All the best

oh makes sense now,no im not in the job yet,still studying-and not sure if im going to start either.Both my Fiancee and sister are ST2 doctors,fiancee is in Anaesthetics and sister in Psych,one under mersyside and the other, under Manchester deanery.Im sort of a little annoyed at the work load they are under and the facts you mentioned earlier about abusive and ungrateful patients,when i started med school i was a little bit ignorant of these facts and didnt think there was so much work involved,even though both my parents are GPs and insisted it wouldnt be a cruise.If anything i want to get into Primary care,as it seems getting to consultant level is harder than its ever been and most of my friends and family within medicine are either in or have completed their GP training and are making quite good money as either salaried/partnered GPs within mid/large size practices,easy 9-5pm job really-if youre salaried.Also dont know whats happened over the last 10 years but medicine has changed and so have hospitals-as consultants have now given up most of their power to managers making the places target driven as you mentioned earlier,lots of machine like protocol and too little money within hospitals in the junior ranks.Btw i appreciate what you say about the hosp accomodation it is no doubt dire-ive had to stay over at many hospital accomodations over the last few years and its horrid-however i suppose if youre a resident then its either that or buying a flat locally only to be moved on to some other hospital within the year.anyway nice chatting to you.