Rear Brake Pad Rattling

[Porky]

:tsktsk: :tsktsk: :tsktsk: :tsktsk: Help!!! Just had heated discussion with Nationwide Manager.

Where to start! At the end of January I had Rear discs and pads replaced, as I drove away I noticed a scraping noise from both rears. I took it stariaght back. Had to book it in twice (at great inconvenience) before they stoped problem. The "specialist" had to grind down the back plate (I think?).

The next problem only came to light when the weather got warmer at mid/end of feb and the kids started putting the windows down in the back. When driving over a slightly bumpy surface or speed bump I hear a rattling noise coming from both rears. I took it back in at the beggining of May where the "Specialist" stripped and cleaned both rear brakes and concluded that "nothing evident as far as rubbing/rattling". So again I drove away, only to return after 2 minutes with the same problem. He didn't even test drive the car!!!!!! I took the specialistr out with me so he could here the noise to which he concluded "sounds like the suspension" I spent the next 1.5 hrs under the car with the specialist whilst he pushed, shook and prodded different part s of the underneath - 2 tywraps later I left, only to have the same problem! I rang them to let them know still the same and that I would ring them when back off holiday. In the meantime i read on the forum about the spring/clip problem. I rang Ntionwide and mentioned this. They came back and said that I needed a brake fitting kit @ £111 including fitting. Since then I've had an MOT (Didn't use Nationwide). I explained the problem and they kindly had a look, they showed me that the pads were rattling around within the caliper. They said that the pads weren't the correct size "sloppy fit" should be an "interference fit". I can hold the spring and move the pads side to side. This is were my heated discussion with the Manager at Nationwide today comes in. I explained what the MOT garage had found and he basically said that I need the fitting kit that I'd been quoted by his specialist. I asked why hadn't that been mentioned when the pads/discs were originally fitted or at the beginning of May when the brakes had been stripped down again and no "evidence of rattling found". He just kept on repeating that the clips must have coroded and fallen off and I would need the fitting kit.

Can anyone help??? I have booked it in again on tuesday and need some ammunition :tsktsk: (or humble pie if they are correct )

If they are in the wrong, I can't see them admitting to it!!

Sorry for the long winded rant!!

[Andy-R]

Make sure the clips that hold the pads in place are there if not then that will cause the rattle, if the rattle wasn't there before you had the brakes done then someone's forgot to put the clips back in when fitting the new pads which means it's there fault and they should have to pay for whatever parts are needed.

[aaronabbott]

why would you need a brake fitting kit?

[Andy-R]

why would you need a brake fitting kit?

Lexus don't sell the clips seperate they come as part of a kit, I need 1 clip for the rear n/s and it will cost me a fortune because no one supply's them seperately even breakers will only supply with the caliper, so i'm just going to put up with the rattle until I find someone who's either got 1 spare or can make me 1.

[aaronabbott]

why would you need a brake fitting kit?

Lexus don't sell the clips seperate they come as part of a kit, I need 1 clip for the rear n/s and it will cost me a fortune because no one supply's them seperately even breakers will only supply with the caliper, so i'm just going to put up with the rattle until I find someone who's either got 1 spare or can make me 1.

have you got a pic of what this clip looks like cos i changed my rear pads a few months ago and i have this same rattle from the back end and checked the suspension and its not that

[Porky]

why would you need a brake fitting kit?

Lexus don't sell the clips seperate they come as part of a kit, I need 1 clip for the rear n/s and it will cost me a fortune because no one supply's them seperately even breakers will only supply with the caliper, so i'm just going to put up with the rattle until I find someone who's either got 1 spare or can make me 1.

have you got a pic of what this clip looks like cos i changed my rear pads a few months ago and i have this same rattle from the back end and checked the suspension and its not that

I don't have a picture but hopefully you can view the link below. Are you missing the "clip" or the "anti-squeal spring"

I hope this works! This is a link to the IS200 PDF manual that I found on the forum. I need to check that we are talking about the same parts ie spring (Anti -squeal spring), clip or shims etc. If you click on REAR BRAKE CALIPER and COMPONENTS you'll hopefully see an exploded view of the brake pads etc. The "anti sqeal spring" is definitely in place (this is what i hold when demonstrating the pad movemnet/rattle) I suppose the shims could have deteriorated and therefore aren't applying any support when the cylinders are backed off - does this sound feasible? Starting to confuse myself

[DJ Wozza]

I wouldn't take the car back to them, they just do not sound competant or trustworth from the information above.

It's only my opinion, but there it is.

[aaronabbott]

when i done mine im 90% sure now i put everything back in as it came out,ill have a look when i finish work in a bit

[Porky]

I wouldn't take the car back to them, they just do not sound competant or trustworth from the information above.

It's only my opinion, but there it is.

I completely agree! but who else? If they have cocked up they should sort it (In an ideal world) I need some ammo so I can have both barrells ready when they come back and surprise me with "you need the fitting kit" cher ching.

[TigerFish]

To be fair, I wouldn't agree with the MOT guy about the pads being an interference fit. The clips are spring loaded which fit snuggly against the lugs on each end of the pad. If the clips are the same as as the ones on my Mk1 GS (they clip onto the caliper mounting bracket and the pads push into them), then I have some spares that I can send out if you need the odd one.

as far as needing the kit goes, you would've had them all when it went in, if they have chucked them or lost them, they should at least meet part of the cost IMO.

[Porky]

To be fair, I wouldn't agree with the MOT guy about the pads being an interference fit. The clips are spring loaded which fit snuggly against the lugs on each end of the pad. If the clips are the same as as the ones on my Mk1 GS (they clip onto the caliper mounting bracket and the pads push into them), then I have some spares that I can send out if you need the odd one.

as far as needing the kit goes, you would've had them all when it went in, if they have chucked them or lost them, they should at least meet part of the cost IMO.

Thanks for that it does appear that the MOT guy is wrong. Ihave just spoken to Gary and Russell at Lexus Sheffield (Both very helpfull) Russell said there are 2 kits available depending what is missing. Kit (1) consists of the 4 plates ie 4 Anti-squeal shims @£22.55 inc Vat and kit (2) that consists of the Guide pin and spring and clip. £26.85 Inc Vat. Both kits are for both rear wheels. He did say that it is very commaon that some of these parts do get thrown away when "garages that don't know what they are doing replace pads" Are all these items visible when wheel removed? I just want to have a look if so. I also asked if it was possible for any of these items to have coroded and fallen off as stated by the mangaer at Nationwide "No way" was the response.

[Andy-R]

The 2nd kit sounds about right, the clip pushes in on top of the pads once there in the caliper, it's still £30 odd just for the clip if thats whats missing, I still think whoever done the brakes should cough up.

Tigerfish not sure if there the same matey but if they are 1st dibs, i've been after one for 18 months a very much ;)

[Porky]

The 2nd kit sounds about right, the clip pushes in on top of the pads once there in the caliper, it's still £30 odd just for the clip if thats whats missing, I still think whoever done the brakes should cough up.

Tigerfish not sure if there the same matey but if they are 1st dibs, i've been after one for 18 months a very much ;)

Russell from lexus sheffield has just sent me a drg of the 2 kits as a word doc but I can't seem to attach it or insert it - can anybody help or care!!

[TigerFish]

I'm guessing from Porkys description that the clips are not the same. If the IS200 ones are like the ones in this link clicky then they are definately not the same. Sorry chaps.

[Andy-R]

I'm guessing from Porkys description that the clips are not the same. If the IS200 ones are like the ones in this link clicky then they are definately not the same. Sorry chaps.

That does look very similar to the one on my IS, any chance of posting a pic to see if it can be adapted. Ta

[Porky]

I'm guessing from Porkys description that the clips are not the same. If the IS200 ones are like the ones in this link clicky then they are definately not the same. Sorry chaps.

That does look very similar to the one on my IS, any chance of posting a pic to see if it can be adapted. Ta

Morning all. I decided to have a look myself at the brakes this weekend. The Guide pin, spring and clip were all there ie kit (2) items 47743C, 47748F & 47748E respectively on Tigerfish's "clicky" link above. I removed the spring and then the clip and guide pin to find the pads were very loose. On removing the pads I found there wasn't any shims ie kit (1) all items labelled 04946 on "clicky" link. The way I understand it is that these 4 shims take up the slack when the caliper backs off and when the pads start to wear - is this right? All the copper grease had disapeared too! Thanks for the link Tigerfish - made life much easier when describing parts!

[aaronabbott]

so what have you done to stop the rattling,i was going to have a look at mine friday afternoon until i had a problem with my lights so didnt get chance

[Andy-R]

Surely the shims can't of fallen out I still think that when you had your brakes changed they forgot to put them back in so they should pay for the kit to fix the problem they caused

[Porky]

so what have you done to stop the rattling,i was going to have a look at mine friday afternoon until i had a problem with my lights so didnt get chance

I'm booked in at Nationwide tomorrow to see what they say - I hope they will see the error of there ways and buy and fit the "shim" kit at no cost. If they don't then I 'll probably buy the kit from lexus sheffield @ £22.55 inc vat and fit myself. After seeing how easy it was to remove the pads on saturday I can't see it being difficult to fit these shims.

[aaronabbott]

so what have you done to stop the rattling,i was going to have a look at mine friday afternoon until i had a problem with my lights so didnt get chance

I'm booked in at Nationwide tomorrow to see what they say - I hope they will see the error of there ways and buy and fit the "shim" kit at no cost. If they don't then I 'll probably buy the kit from lexus sheffield @ £22.55 inc vat and fit myself. After seeing how easy it was to remove the pads on saturday I can't see it being difficult to fit these shims.

nice one im just racking my brain now about mine

[Porky]

Surely the shims can't of fallen out I still think that when you had your brakes changed they forgot to put them back in so they should pay for the kit to fix the problem they caused

I completely agree!! The guys at lexus sheffield both basically said that it couldn't happen and that they see it alot - the shims get thrown away with the old pads.

[aaronabbott]

Surely the shims can't of fallen out I still think that when you had your brakes changed they forgot to put them back in so they should pay for the kit to fix the problem they caused

I completely agree!! The guys at lexus sheffield both basically said that it couldn't happen and that they see it alot - the shims get thrown away with the old pads.

i really hope i havent done that but at £22 its an easy fix

[Andy-R]

so what have you done to stop the rattling,i was going to have a look at mine friday afternoon until i had a problem with my lights so didnt get chance

I'm booked in at Nationwide tomorrow to see what they say - I hope they will see the error of there ways and buy and fit the "shim" kit at no cost. If they don't then I 'll probably buy the kit from lexus sheffield @ £22.55 inc vat and fit myself. After seeing how easy it was to remove the pads on saturday I can't see it being difficult to fit these shims.

nice one im just racking my brain now about mine

I think the only way you'll know is to strip it all back down again and see if anythings missing, if nothing is missing just give it all a clean and put plenty of copper grease on before putting it all back together :)

[Porky]

so what have you done to stop the rattling,i was going to have a look at mine friday afternoon until i had a problem with my lights so didnt get chance

I'm booked in at Nationwide tomorrow to see what they say - I hope they will see the error of there ways and buy and fit the "shim" kit at no cost. If they don't then I 'll probably buy the kit from lexus sheffield @ £22.55 inc vat and fit myself. After seeing how easy it was to remove the pads on saturday I can't see it being difficult to fit these shims.

nice one im just racking my brain now about mine

If you do get chance to have a look at yours I'd be very interested to see if your "shims" are there or not. Lexus guys in sheffield did say they put plenty of copper grease between the shims when they fit - if yours are there!

[aaronabbott]

so what have you done to stop the rattling,i was going to have a look at mine friday afternoon until i had a problem with my lights so didnt get chance

I'm booked in at Nationwide tomorrow to see what they say - I hope they will see the error of there ways and buy and fit the "shim" kit at no cost. If they don't then I 'll probably buy the kit from lexus sheffield @ £22.55 inc vat and fit myself. After seeing how easy it was to remove the pads on saturday I can't see it being difficult to fit these shims.

nice one im just racking my brain now about mine

If you do get chance to have a look at yours I'd be very interested to see if your "shims" are there or not. Lexus guys in sheffield did say they put plenty of copper grease between the shims when they fit - if yours are there!

when i get chance ill have alook and take a pic but wont get chance till wednesday now as the cars going into the dealers tomorrow unless i can get them to have a look